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  #1  
Old 05-17-2011, 01:40 PM
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Default EGR blanking. Is it worth it?

Apologies if this has been asked before but i have been trying to find an answer.

Got a call earlier from the other half to say that the x-type is running rough, has no power and giving out lots of black smoke. Luckily I had already booked time off work today to get on with some work on our other car (land rover 110) so off i go to wifeys work place and pick up the Jag.

Started fine but had no power between 1-2k revs while trying to stall when pulling away and so much smoke that traffic actually started to slow down (maybe thinking it was going to blow up). A quick search gave a few suggestions, blocked filters, egr valve or split intercooler hose.

Air filter didnt look too old so off came the egr to find that the bore was almost half what it should be due to the amount of crud in there . Cleaned up the egr but have found the valve itself was quite sticky and i had to close it manually before the car would actually run again so thinking it may need replacing. I have since had the engine management light come on with code F0404 that had to be reset.

A bit of searching on ebay has started showing up these blanking kits that will work with your engine whether your egr is good or not. Will a blanking kit help as the car is running better than ever at the minute? im worried if the egr is gone then i am going to keep getting the management light coming on or will the kit help stop this too?

Oh its a 2005 2.0d if that makes any difference.
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Old 05-19-2011, 02:37 PM
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Click the image to open in full size.

I haven't heard too many positives about blanking off the egr snoop....Its there for a reason I guess, although people have done it.

Had something similar with my wife's VW Passat recently, although it ran well the dash lit up with "EMMISSIONS WORKSHOP" so I checked / changed the air filter which was in a terrible state ( should have been changed at service and wasn't )
Then removed the EGR valve and cleaned it.....It wasn't anywhere near as bad as you say yours is, but it certainly helped a little...The light re appeared after a few days though.

The cheap fix in this instance was replacing the "temp coolant sensor".....dealer wanted 34 + 100 diagnostic time + 2 hours labour to fit......all in with vat 300 - 350.
I got the sensor from eBAY for 6 and a local mechanic changed it for 10.

You might wanna check the vacuum hoses and intercooler for splits / leaks?

Good luck
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Old 05-22-2011, 03:48 PM
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Default better fuel milage,more power.

some pix for your interests.
this is a complete exhaust removal, from turbo down pipe to very end.
it includes removal of DPF, SCR ,exhaust fliud doser, 4 egt sensors, brackets adn clamps ,, weight removed 140 lbs.(thats a lot of weight) truck feels better, turbo response, acceleration, passing on hi-way.

most of these medium size trucks are 5.9L or 6,6L.
this tech can be applied to any modern diesel.

also EGR blanking kit , some of these trucks have dual EGR coolers and valves,

what a mess of engine ruining junk.
but you know they gotta stay in business, we call it engine recycling products.
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EGR blanking. Is it worth it?-egr-5-21-11-618x800-.jpg   EGR blanking. Is it worth it?-egr-5-21-11-618x800-.jpg  
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:43 AM
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Thanks for the replies, looks like the current egr is beyond repair so that will be getting replaced anyway

tried cleaning it, working the valve piston, all electrical connectors cleaned and pipework checked but still have the engine light on the dash.

Seriously considering the blanking plate to help this one last longer but going to try and find out which is the right one. One has an 8mm hole in the middle so the sensor still thinks there are gasses passing through but the other is a full blank. Suppose I could buy the full blank and drill the hole myself if the light comes back on.

Have blanked them before on other marques but not with such a complex engine. Its a very common thing with land rover owners as well as removing the cat since emmissions are not tested at mot time this side of the pond and has good results even if it is a 2 tonne house brick with a shade over 100bhp and the aerodynamics of a brick on a skateboard.

Will post up any findings
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Old 05-24-2011, 06:31 AM
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Technically, the EGR system is there to reduce NOX emissions by cooling the combustion temperature so that there is a worthwhile reduction in NOX, anywhere between 50 and 80%. A GM invention from the 1960s.

Unfortunately, it is in direct competion with another pollutant -- soot. Reducing combustion temperature will produce more soot, or PMs, particulate matter. (And for that matter, more unburnt HC).

The sophisticated control microprocessors can get the best compromize here under 3D mapping which controls several processes at once, in a dynamic fashion i.e. while parameters are changing all the time. I understand a typical check-rate is 30 samples/sec.

If you removed the EGR system altogether, the mapping would not be right for the new condition, possibly making changes outside the program limits which would flag up as an error. People who remove EGR systems also usually remove the DPF filter AND can re-program the micro. to suit. Then you should certainly get less soot, better fuel consumption, more power, BUT --- at the expense of more NOX emissions!

Now whether this is a problem or not depends on your local government rules on emissions. As far as I know, there is no UK MOT check on NOX, only on particulates here. UK doesn't have the NOX problems as do sunnier climes. But there was a black smoke problem until recently. A smoky diesel in UK is quite rare now, usually because it's been interfered with.

Hope this clears the air a bit(!)

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Old 05-24-2011, 04:21 PM
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Leedsman,
most of what you say has some merit,TRUE, but
is the driver satisfied with the vehicle?

depending on where you live and with your outlook on life as complete!

there comes a time when you step out of the status quo, and expand your feelings of freedom, before it is to late.

OK,.
i have never met anyone who died from NOX(maybe there is a list,but i cant find it). who thinks this stuff up??

so not a good enough reason for me to worry!

if you do use standard diesel fuel, it will smoke when fuelled more than factory specs.
but that is way the fuel is manufactuered.

there are newer additives that will raise cetane levels and reduce smoke to almost non exsistant, OK they do charge us more money for fuel, why wont they make it with higher cetane!!

YES we are americans but we try not to reduce the fun and enjoyment of life,and driving!

when we are on the hiway and flyby a socalled fast car , we leave at little smoke , the soot settles on the grass beside the road, and the grass turns much greener, grass loves black carbon, the rain waters it in, fertilizer!!

all is fine in a balanced world!
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Old 06-24-2011, 05:35 PM
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Hello?? hope i didnt rock the boat,tomuch?

Ron
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:19 AM
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I know this is an old thread but I'm new to the forum and I have just been fixing a EGR valve problem on a customers car and will be doing my own next.

One thing to mention after reading the above is that the DPF was introduced to combat the amount of particulates released into the air (obviously) but the reason being is that the actual size of the carbon particulate emisson from your exhaust is to big to be absorbed by the human lung and too small to be expelled while breathing. Hence a direct adverse effect on humans as it can build up in the lungs and not just turning city buildings black. That said, I don't live in the city and considering what the EGR does to your engine.... it's down to you.

Anyway, customers car had lots of black smoke and I couldn't find any boost leaks so went for the EGR valve blanking plate with the 10mm hole as it's a Euro4 spec emissions system (needs the hole to allow some EGR circulation to not put the light on).

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3969/cam00069.jpg
Shows the soot build up in the valve itself.
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9128/cam00066.jpg
Soot build up in all the inlet ports and the manifold itself weighed near twice as much with the soot build up in it.

Cleaned it all out, fitted the blanking plate and all seems to be good with much less smoke.

Diesel soot, bad for humans bad for engines!
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:10 PM
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diesel soot bad for humans,, diesel soot bad for engines.

diesel soot good for plants, that produce OXYGEN, all is well in a balanced world.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:42 PM
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Default removal of EGR

I don't have a diesel Jaguar but have had a Citroen C5 diesel and now a Jeep grand Cherokee diesel with Mercedes om 642 V6 CRD engine
on the Citroen I had the same problem black smoke and so forth
I removed the EGR completely the car never went better and the DPF filter clogged or regenerated half as much
With the jeep the EGR is electronically controlled I had a map fitted from Green diesel in the US which turned off the EGR
Don't waste your money on a replacement EGR just remove it the car will go better as the EGR will start leaking pretty soon if the vehicle is used on short trips when the EGR starts leaking it is taking exhaust gas away from the turbocharger first thing you will notice when the EGR is removed the turbo spools up quicker so better performance the diesel in the Citroen is made by Peugeot same as the one in the Jaguar
also I run a 300 to 1 ratio of TC-w3 out board oil in the engine the difference is amazing and the outboard oil is cheap done over 100,000 k,s in the jeep using outboard oil my mechanic say its the best diesel he has ever driven changed his mind on oil burners
If you search the web for 2stroke oil in diesels there are thousands of articles literally here is a scientific test on TC-W3 oil in the link I have attached have a look for yourself Happy reading
Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:59 AM
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A note for UK drivers, and this is pertinent to removing EGR systems and DPFs:

The usual MOT is getting stricter. ANY tell-tales on the dash will now result in a fail.
Whether the test now includes checking for the presence of the manuf. EGR system and the DPF I don't know. There may also be a NOX check now too.

Anyone with authoritative knowlege about these new regulations....PLEASE COMMENT!

BTW, I've always thought EGR systems were a bit like deliberately making the engine less efficient, for the sake of the green brigade -- Jeremy Clarkson would not approve!
If the engine is less efficient, it stands to reason more CO2 will be produced to make up for it by using the engine for longer. Maybe one is just exchanging one kind of pollution for another; like the great all-electric car nonsense. One is just shifting the pollution from the car to the power station. In UK, around 40% of electricity is still generated by coal. Most of the rest is by gas.
If all the DPFs and EGRs were suddenly removed, would there be any real difference to pollution?
I wouldn't bet money on it. Might even be less in CO2 terms.

Leedsman.
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:11 AM
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Two years ago my XType started blowing smoke heavily, I read on the forum that you can buy blanking pieces to install to the EGR, I disconnected the vacuum hose on the EGR and blanked the tube off with some sealer then started the engine before going any further, the smoke completely dispersed after a few seconds, speed was up & MPG went up, due to this I left it at that, I haven't had any problems at all since, I have done 18,000 miles - no problem. the only thing is my engine light is on, i have a scan to make sure that it is due to the EGR valve and no other faults. I do have a new EGR vale but while I'm getting what I want out of it, what the hell, I get 57MPG doing 65-70MPH, don't know how to turn the engine light off, any idea's ?
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:46 PM
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HI, DOC, i too, have been using 2 stroke oil in my car,about 20,000miles now.
i use it in two of my vehicles, 1982 Isuzu 1.8L turbo coupe, other 1995 Chevrolet suburban, diesel.

i use 1/2OZ. to 1 US Gallon fuel, in hot weather(summers) i mix some used and filtered Veg. oil! so far all is good,no problems.

it saves a some money, adds much to the lubricity, and i notice with veg oil diesel knock is much quieter, and not as much smoke, veg oil has NO sulphur in it, its a food product!

i get used veg for free cost just have to pick it up.

thought it might be of interest. Isuzu pix in my garage!
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:04 PM
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Hi Codefile 5 all you need to do is reset your fault codes and the light on the dash should switch off if it doesn't you will need to go further into the system there will be a on and of switch in the computer that allows you to turn of the EGR sensor but pretty sure the late model ones have a electronic EGR like my Jeep I had it turned of in the ECU map I got from Green diesel Green Diesel Engineering - Jeep Performance ECU Chip Tuner
When I did the Cruze diesel I had it chipped by these guys Viezu Technologies : Car Tuning, Performance Engine Tuning, ECU Remapping / ECU Remaps
they are an English company and know there stuff when they chipped the cruze the economy went up as did the power but the real benefit was car was so much more drivable no longer did it have the delayed reaction when you take of from stationery it was immediate throttle response so much that you only had to lean on the throttle to get forward motion and as for emissions they produce less emissions when the engine is tuned correctly and the EGR is removed my Jeep does not blow any smoke at all only under extremely hard acceleration which is unnecessary now it has been chipped as it gets of the line so effortlessly if I turn the traction control of it will spin all 4 wheels up my driveway every now and then I might have to take of from the lights because some idiot thinks they can pull in front of me wrong the jeep pulls harder then my S/C XJR and the jeep weighs 2.8 tonnes as well
I love the look on peoples faces when I blow them away and im in a Jeep Grand cherokee thats fun LOL
on another it is illegal to remove DPI filters I still have one fitted to my jeep it has not regenerated in 2 years of driving I put down to the use of the TC-W3 outboard oil and no EGR not to mention the engine will last longer if you get rid of the EGR how would you like to be breathing in 30% less oxygen when you are running around simple answer you wouldn't they are working on the EGR problem as it is a problem worldwide just search diesel forums and doesn't matter what brand of car or 4wd they all say get rid of the EGR
I love the old Isuzu they called them Holden Geminis here in Australia we used to put Chev V8,s into them then they fly LOL
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:00 AM
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Re. driver-additives to diesel fuel:--

A proper scientific study (source "Dieselbike.net") reports the following --

Adding 2-stroke oil in 200:1 ratio did result in a lubricity improvement in an ULSD fuel THAT HAD NOT BEEN LUBRICANT TREATED BY THE MANUF. Wear went down from 636micron to 474micron in the HFRR test.

A 2% addition of biofuel to the ULSD fuel reduced the wear from 636micron to 221micron in the same test, same fuel. This was the best of all at reducing wear.

Many of the additives sold over the counter did not make any difference, or made the lubricity of the fuel worse.

My comments --

ULSD fuel is already treated by manuf. to compensate for loss of lubricity due to removal of sulphur.
In UK, diesel fuel already contains 3% biodiesel, to rise to 5% by next year.

So....it would seem that at least in UK, THERE IS NO POINT IN ADDING ANYTHING TO YOUR DIESEL FUEL!

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Old 10-05-2012, 04:57 PM
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here in the states US,, we have 5% biofuel added to ULSD, reports,next year it will be 10%,some places already have it. kinda puts the hand writing on the wall ,for future!

notice it says Biofuel not Biodiesel, not quite sure what they mean?

but i can say that the oder from exhaust with 25-50% veg oil mixed with ULSD, my wife says thats good,(smells like,fish&chips),hehe. not stinky diesel fuel!

all this is just a novelty, and interesting knowledge, about what will&does work,from hands on experience.

BUT i'm not sure if newer common rail systems can do it?

altho ther are many guys around trying it on Bosch piezo CR . with good results.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:38 PM
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Hi all
Not sure if we are still on topic here it was after all about a EGR valve
Here in Australia the diesel has changed as well they don't tell us if it has bio in it but the fuel is thinner not as oily as it used to be smells different to very foamy it is low sulphur though
A couple years ago when they first stated bringing out this new diesel fuel a lot of the old diesels where blowing up injector pumps and leaking fuel systems and so forth



I have a late model OM642 CRD engine in my Jeep it has piezo injectors and a swirl valve fitted it was the most advanced diesel on the market till BMW brought one out late last year it went like the clappers as well but after having problems with the EGR on the Citroen we owned before the Jeep and having learned that EGR valves kill diesel engines I was determined to remove the EGR from the Jeep only to find the EGR was electronically controlled which meant if I blocked it of the vehicle would throw a warning light on the dash that's why I bought a flash tuner and tune from green diesel they specialize in jeep diesels after fitting the flash tune the fuel consumption went from 13 litres per hundred K,s to low 10,s per hundred K,s


I then also fitted a device from Mann Hummel called a provent https://www.mann-hummel.com/company/...=35&rec_no=192
The reason for fitting the provent is that modern diesels use very thin oil this oil evaporates and ends up being sucked through the crankcase ventilation system into the engine thus working its way into the air inlet system the crankcase vent is in front of the turbo a turbo makes boost but before the outlet side of the turbo the turbo creates vacuum thus creating a scavenging effect on the crankcase this can be a good thing because it makes the rings seal better on the jeep it causes swirl motor failures and because the oil vapour goes into the intercooler where by the nature of the intercooler causes it to cool down and become oil again which then gets sucked back through the engine leaving most of the oil in the intercooler which eventually blocks the intercooler which leads tho the intercooler hoses bursting which in turn blows the engine

I actually removed over a litre of oil from the intercooler I then had it ultrasonically cleaned as to leave no residue


The only thing I noticed after the flash tune was the engine seemed nosier than before quite raucous actually that’s when I read about adding TC-W3 outboard oil to diesel engines
I had heard of 2 stroke oil in diesels for year’s from the old boy network


I thought what could it hurt so I went down and bought some TC-W3 outboard oil not the most expensive the cheapest but made sure it was TC-W3 rated then added it at a ratio of 300 to1 us gallons calculated it into metric which works out t 3.1 ML per litre not much when you think about it

The first thing I noticed in the jeep was the engine went very quiet so quiet some of my mates did not believe it was a diesel a lot of people still don’t believe it’s a diesel till I show them so first benefit of TC-W3 realised was engine quieter over the next couple of weeks I noticed another effect the fuel consumption now sits at 8.5 litres per hundred regularly so the jeep went from 500 k,s to a tank to now getting 800 per tank that is a mixture of around town and highway use later this month I will be driving it to Melbourne and back plus some running around in Melbourne and towing a trailer with my motorbike on it about 5,000 k,s all up cant wait to see what the consumption will be as I am also on a jeep forum and have a fair idea what this vehicle should do while towing looking forward to seeing how much better the fuel consumption is over standard towing a trailer

So as to removing EGR valves I will just keep removing them or switching them of which ever is the easiest I will also be fitting a provent and I will be running TC-W3 out board as well until something changes
My jeep blows no smoke at all only when you are absolutely flooring it which is hardly necessary considering it has 720 Nm torque at 1100 rpm the green tune lifted the torque and HP output quite respectively but has made the engine a delight to drive in fact when I buy my next Jaguar it is going to be a diesel just look at the torque figures on a new XF 3.0 twin turbo diesel that is a very nice diesel get rid of the EGR and give it a real tune if I can get 720Nm out of a single turbo 3.0 diesel what will the twin turbo of the jaguar make when tuned yeah as Clarkson says its about the torques
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:02 AM
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As I was researching modern ULSD fuel, I noticed, as an almost throwaway comment, the boys from Bosch writing "very high pressure fuel pumps (as used in HDi engines) are particularly sensitive to fuel lubricity". This was in ref. to bio-mixes.
I would take this to mean that if you have an HDi engine, make sure the fuel has the bio-mix. 2% was the figure tested. ULSD fuel is getting common in every major western country.
It may be of interest that it says in the handbook for my 2.7D S-type "no fuel containing more than 5% bio is to be used". And that is printed in bold. I happen, in this instance, to agree. There are a lot of data suggesting insidious corrosion of the fuel pump when higher %ages of bio are used. Other data suggest a dark brown sludge build-up in the fuel pump and filters when excessive bio mix is used. These kind of effects aren't noticed for quite a while until, too late, the damage is done and lots of $$$ or are required to fix.
When I tested BP ultimate diesel fuel against their regular version, I did not record any beneficial effects whatsoever. The ultimate fuel cost 40p per gallonUK more than the regular version.

Leedsman.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:47 PM
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i'm going with the doc on this!

if and when i can get an XFD Jaguar 3.0L,LHD, it will shortly have almost NO exhaust system. i'm thinking it will sound good also!, bigger diameter piping for a long lenght, sound DEEP and powerful. NOT harsh.

and an upgrade on the ECU, and adjust things as i go along, just the knowledge gained will be fun and interesting.

HEY, DOC , what i gather on the net is that MB Jeep engines GREAT.

a local guy has one in Jeep, and tows a big 5th wheel trailor, all over the USA.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:13 PM
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Ronbros
That's why I bought the Jeep it is the best of both worlds has the Benz ML front end and engine gearbox so drives really nice but has the Jeep off-road ability and huge towing capacity
I am planning to get a caravan in the next couple years to tour round Australia in it have already put a 3 inch exhaust from the turbo back and removed the mufflers and have a turbo muffler on it doesn't make any noise seems diesels don't make a note but removing the original muffler was the size of a ten year old boy did make a difference
I also have a KN panel filter in the air box like I said the thing flies
I would love to do the things I have done to the Jeep to a 3.0 XF diesel my torque went from 570 nm to 720 nm the XF with its twin turbo's makes 600 already I think 800 nm should be attainable the gearbox might not be able to handle it not sure what brand they are in the XF
The Benz gearbox in my Jeep is limited to 780 nm torques that's why its tuned to 720 nm give the box some leeway
800 or more should be fun
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