My tuner just received the protocols for tuning the F-Type ECUs. He will launch into this project the first week in December.

 

Next time you talk with him, could you please ask him what happens when you take the car in to have the ECU reflash for the O2 sensor service action just issued for all F-Types?

 

If you have an aftermarket tune in the car and the dealer does the reflash according to the K309 Service Action, your tune will be lost.

I would get the K309 done before having the tune done.

Also if the tuner messes with your ECU it will leave a permanent, un-erasable trouble code P167F-00 "Non-OEM Calibration Detected" so better that the dealer doesn't see that now.

 

Thanks Cambo. I'm always amused when a tuning company claims it will be undetectable.

 

I will indeed confirm, but if it is handled like it has been on my MINI,1) he will look at the Delta change between the original OEM tune and the dealer re-flash, 2)if he feels that the delta will improve the drivability, he will make those changes to the custom tune he has on file for my car, 3)will re-flash with the modified performance tune, and then 4) will ensure the A/F has not been driven out of range. If he had found it necessary, the car would have gone back on the dyno for optimizing, but that wasn't the case for either of the MINI updates made after the performance tune. I was not charged for those re-flashes, but probably would have had to pay for dyno time if it had been needed. I will confirm whether he still handles factory updates in this manner. (no factory updates offered on my MINI in the past 7 or 8 years. I will also check regarding the P167F-00 code. Without having seen the protocols, he was under the impression that having access to those would enable him to create the right checksum digits to avoid the tampering error.

 

The K309 update seems pretty important, a few people have reported error codes and check engine lights because of bad O2 sensor calibration, which is resolved with the update. I would definitely get the tune laid over the updated file. Perhaps even do another dyno run after the K309 update.

I'll be very surprised if he can avoid the P167F-00, let's see...

 

I don't have the details, but based upon various things I've read over the last few years, the error codes are just the obvious fingerprints. Apparently, there are others that can be detected if the manufacturer is trying to decide whether to pay for an engine replacement warranty claim.

For example, in the Z06 world, I've read multiple accounts of ECUs being pulled by dealers for forensic testing in the manufacturer's lab, and where the fingerprints were found. And this is on a car where tuning was/is ubiquitous, and where the great tuners were claiming to have learned all possible ways to hide it . . . apparently not.

I'm still interesting in tuning if I can be convinced someone really knows how to do it reasonably safely. However, I'm fully cognizant of, and prepared to, accept the consequences. I do not believe that any aftermarket tuner will actually be successful in hiding it if they really want to find it. In fact, I don't think they should have to pay, and I would make no effort to try to hide it.

 

If my dealer is willing to do the K309 update with no apparent symptoms, I will certainly have them do that before the tune. Does that update affect all F-Types or just a specific VIN range?

Regarding the P167F code I have my doubts as well, but that will not dissuade me from pursuing the tune.

 

All from K00001 to K29970.

Service Action K309 - O2 sensors.pdf

 

I concur fully with your assessment of the situation and and share your doubts whether a tune can be hidden, whether it throws codes or not. (A forensic review of the ECU software should be able to reveal all of the parameter changes that were made).

I too am fully willing to absorb the consequences of altering the tune. My only concern is whether the ECU throws an error code that causes the car to fail the bi-annual emissions test.

 

I've not connected a generic OBD2 scanner to the cars i've seen that have the P167F-00 only SDD, so I don't know if it shows up with non-JLR scanners. Being a P- code I suspect it might but probably with no description. This code doesn't put on the check engine light. If that affects your emissions test I could not say.

 

"with research comes clarity" Hopefully we will have an answer to many of these questions after the tune is attempted on my car.

 

The PDF doesn't mention symptoms, just says the dealer should do it when the car is in the shop:

 

Which is why a few have speculated this may have something to do with the VW scandal. I wouldn't be so quick to suspect that, but I do agree it is curious that they were completely silent with regard to the reason.

 

I think i'll get a chance this week to connect my little Autel scanner to one of the cars here that has the P167F-00, i'll let you know what it says.

Nah it's not emissions, there really does seem to be a problem with the O2 sensor calibration, here's an example, codes and check engine lights https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...2/#post1351440

 

but a tune on a non-forced engine is basically negligible ... why bother, whatever gain you may have it is most certainly not discernible while driving and would be purely on dyno sheet ...

 

not in MD, no error codes on the scanner, even with my highflow CATS the only code I get is the secondary O2 sensor showing latency and usually under 50%

 

My DD is a 2011 VW TDI that is affected by the scandal. Back in July, VW sent me a recall letter that stated that there was a problem with CELs appearing due to the software falsely reporting bad O2 sensors, and that I should stop in for a re-flash that would prevent these "false" O2 CELs. We now know forensically that this was total BS...that what they were really doing was an emissions re-flash in an attempt to pull the cars back into compliance, without alerting everyone to their diesel emissions subterfuge/debacle.

Before this happened, no one would have believed that a major OEM would pull something like this, and now there are reports that they may have done something similar with their gas engines as well. Knowing what I know about the industry as a whole, if this is true, I will be forced to assume that other OEMs are hiding similar secrets. VW knows as much about engines/emissions controls as anyone else in the business, and if they have to lie about compliance, then others are probably lying as well.

Is Jaguar lying about this recall? Probably not, but I'd never say never again.

 

It's not a recall, it's a "service action." If it were a recall, owners of all affected vehicles would be sent notification. It would also show up on the NHTSA website. I don't see anything related to this at all, not even a Service Bulletin filed with NHTSA.

 

I don't have any reason to believe there's anything suspicious about this "service action." As Cambo as noted, there have been problems w/ the 02 sensors on these engines in this and other JLR models. I simply noted others (like Dr. Manhattan) have been suspicious, and that it was "curious" no explanation was offered. It would have been very simple for JLR to offer a one sentence explanation that it was to cure the problem noted above. Silence, in light of the recent VW scandal, can lead to suspicion.