That's your brain's knock sensor - you defaulted to the wrong map.

 

Nice Matrix reference btw..

Thank you guys. Now that was the kind of response I was looking for! I have been having an email dialog with the the Tuners and Stuart at Velocity AP and this is a typical level of depth.

I will continue to work with them as they develop their F-type tunes and report to the community. In the interest of bringing real tuning expertise to this community, I will continue to push forward despite recent experiences. I'm in the Biotech start-up arena, so risks are my game....calculated, but necessary.

 

This is a really good example of why you also need to look at your mods in a wholistic way, and make sure you have properly integrated software.

For example, on an Aston Martin Vantage, the cars are often running a commanded Lambda of 0.75-0.78 range at high RPM open loop, full throttle conditions. Cooling catalyst temperatures has been referenced as a reason for this, and leaning that mixture out too far could cause catalyst and sensor damage.

However...... replace the integrated 600 cell primary and 400 cell secondary ceramic matrix OEM cat unit with a single 200 cell metal-matrix motorsport catalyst, and guess what? You no longer have to worry because you've just removed what is, from a purely thermal point of view, a giant heat exchanger, and you have a much more durable catalyst brick that can stand up to higher heat anyway.

And you can run more aggressive settings, make more power. Same principles would apply to the F-Type.

 

Very informative dialog, even though my brain hurts a little as well. Thank you!

 

So just out of curiousity....would't copying the CCF files from a V6S with 380hp to a base V6 with 340hp be pretty straightforward? Basically copy and paste the files that control the power output? The base V6 will get the bump in power to V6S specs using the factory tune.

 

I'm sure, but it would still be considered an after-market tune for warranty purposes. Plus, there's really not much benefit as far as I'm concerned since the torque output of the two V6s is virtually identical. The extra HP only really helps well into the triple digits.

The real benefit of the V6S is more aggressive gearing and the LSD.

 

Not really that easy. The code is all in hex. If the map was the same hex, you can find it in 2 seconds..find of like a search with in page for wtv hex your looking for and see if it matches. BUT if the values are different..which they are on some maps (for the extra power allowance). The hex code will be different...so now your chasing to find something that will match up. Then you have to try and eliminate what you the code that match, then in-between is what should be your table. Now if the table isn't the same..you just wasted all that time to find the table..to now scrap that idea and load up more cars that have a similar ecu to do the same thing.

Everything has an address in the hex code. If you have something similar like the example below (1 is a V6 and the other is the V6S)..you can see on the left, address is different but map is the same. So it's easy to find..just if it's the same..there's no power increase from V6 to V6S, so now your casing to find the maps that don't match up..Although just because they don't match doesn't mean you've found gold..could be just a newer software version that doesn't use the same torque map anymore...then your casing again.

 

Yep, your right..would still be an aftermarket tune. They wouldn't compare to see if the hex code matches a V6S...

The power from V6 to a V6S is slightly different on torque tables. The average is 3-9% from 2,000rpm to redline

 

Factory-released specs say 7 ft. lbs. difference from 3500-5000 rpm, which is 2-3%.

I was perplexed as to why you say it's not that easy. The dealer can plug in and simply reflash very quickly.

 

In that respect it is absolutely that easy; a dealer or the OEM can hook up, press a few buttons on the OEM software program and flash a new 340hp tune on a 340hp car.

But when it comes to changing a 340hp car to a 380hp car you can't necessarily flash that 380hp file onto the 340hp car. Each car is going to have slightly different ECU hardware codes (even if the hardware itself is identical) and may require a unique boot loader that is built into the software. Basically you're going to at the very least need to change some identifiers in the software to match the 340hp hardware and when it's all hex that becomes very difficult without the OEM encoder system that translates it for you. Even the factory would have to make these tweaks to flash the software.

 

Stohlen,

I appreciate the clear explanation.

The only reason I'd seriously consider a tune is if I could safely get the torque numbers at least 10-15% higher. There's no real torque benefit going from the OEM 340 tune to the OEM 380. Moreover, I've pretty much decided I'll only aftermarket tune after the warranty period is over if I've decided to hold on to the car.

If I do decide to keep the car long-term, I'm going on a serious weight loss modification program, which will likely provide me as much, if not more, gains than a tune, but the combination of both could significantly wake-up my current, stripped base.

 

Until your in the mid-high rpm range, the V6 software is limited to an average of 60-68% of torque allowed...this isn't on a brochure.. Its what's coded in the hex

We could take a 340hp car and do the factory changes to 380hp...if that was our goal, we'd have the software posted and ready for release. I will admit though, my first step was to study the differences and see what the factory did to make the save increase..its like being handed a secret.. Versus changing a few maps and seeing how much the increases nets

I believe with the additional adjustments, I'm hoping to see 400bhp on a V6(safe power)..same with the V6S(the increased torque number is harder to estimate). Now this doesn't really net a huge increase for the V6S owners..but this is really all that Jaguar left on the table for the 3.0L until parts start getting replaced to increase power(this is just me looking at the hex code and "guessimating" from what's left to adjust)

I could be wrong and we might get more..all the better!! When a client pays for a tune, we want the file to give all that it can but keep things safe. Our goal isn't to make the most power at redline if the motor is only going to last 1,000km. Another note, if I don't like the data log on a software to make 400bhp and feel it can take 390bhp max, BUT in the mid rpm(2k-4k) can adjust to increase 30bhp and 40ftlbs..I'LL TAKE IT!! That car would accelerate faster and not require red lining to stay in the power band

We're presently working with Ftype clients to dyno and tune in the software(scheduling appointments). When we get a good file that shows safe results..we will then make the files available for purchase. :-)

I'll admit..I'm excited for the results

 

Thanks.

I've been hanging around here for nearly 2 years now, and most of the folks who seem to have the most authoritative info (yourself now included) have suggested that the V6S is close to maxed out (safely) from the factory. In the OEM state of tune, it's already making a lot more power/liter than the V8R.

I agree that more usable power in the mid-range would be very desirable!

 

Any news guys?

 

They'll be doing an R this Saturday, so results of that should be available shortly there after. I believe the V6 tune had to be partially rescheduled do to dyno time conflicts, so no word on that yet.

 

Patiently waiting on that R tuning info.

 

Sorry about that, I should have updated this sooner. We ran into a little datalogging problem + wonderful Michigan snow and decided to postpone till this Saturday. Luckily it was 70 degrees today and the logging device should be in my mailbox right now.

 

No luck today either. The AWD chassis dyno I chose wasn't compatible with our AWD system. Course I didn't know that going in. Not sure what the next steps are as of now.

 

Any news?

 

The dyno shop wanted to remove parts from Stohlen's 5.0L AWD, to make it into a RWD..there dynojet was for awd but they didn't have the belt system to lock the drums, so front and rear axles would spin independently. With traction control off and in dynamic mode, the front axle doesn't spin right away. So this would of been disaster on the dyno for Stohlen's car.

Stohlen nor any of us at Velocity felt confident in the shop, so we pulled the plug and left the dyno. Unfortunately there isn't any other near by awd shops around Stohlen, so we had to reach out to another forum member that contacted us.


That's pretty much where we're at for the 5.0L. The 3.0L 340bhp was dyno'd to 389bhp, time was limited though so we need to reschedule to increase the power. We've sent the 3.0L client a file to road test, the butt dyno feels the improvement..just we want those dyno number before posting it's availible.