Fuel Grade Question
#21
08-10-2016, 03:24 PM
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I have read this same discussion many times on the forum.
What it comes down to is that some folks are just very frugal (AKA cheap) in all aspects of their lives.
They will put a 40 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture to save a few pennies on the electric bill. They buy bargain brand batteries, toilet paper, tires, oil and fuel. Keep the heat on low and the A/C on high and suffer the cold and heat along with their families. They will drive all the way across town to save .02 per gallon on gas, burning $4 worth to get there. They clip coupons, shop sales and resale shops, and wear the same shoes, belt and jeans for 20 years.
What it comes down to is that some folks are just very frugal (AKA cheap) in all aspects of their lives.
They will put a 40 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture to save a few pennies on the electric bill. They buy bargain brand batteries, toilet paper, tires, oil and fuel. Keep the heat on low and the A/C on high and suffer the cold and heat along with their families. They will drive all the way across town to save .02 per gallon on gas, burning $4 worth to get there. They clip coupons, shop sales and resale shops, and wear the same shoes, belt and jeans for 20 years.
I don't think anybody is going after the cost angle- at least I'm certainly not. I also don't think anyone was suggesting that the OEM recommendations or maintenance schedule be ignored or second guessed.If more expensive gas/higher octane/Brand A vs. Brand X returned a tangible benefit of some sort, I'd use it. All of the above discussion about additives demonstrates quite scientifically that it doesn't. It gives me no pleasure to spend extra money on on goods that don't work any better than what I've already got. On the contrary, it feels like I've been bent over and not even had a kiss when we're done.
If you believe other wise and if it makes you feel good, then have at it. If we're going to look down our noses at others, I guess the group that thinks Perrier water tastes better and is worth more is one of my favourites.
I've only had my Jag 2 months and I've been burning regular because my understanding has always been that Premium is a waste of money unless you need it. And if you engine doesn't ping on regular, than you don't need Premium.
However, now that I've read many of the responses on here I think I'm going to start using premium to see if performance or gas mileage improve.
I live in Missouri and I know some years back they passed a law concerning the octane ratings purported at the pumps because they felt they weren't truthful. I haven't been out of state for awhile so I don't know if it's still the same but regular used to be 89 and premium was 93 octane. Here it's 87 and 91 and the mid-grade is 89. That may mean I can use mid-grade and satisfy Jaguar's recommendation. For now I going to go with premium for a while and see how it goes.
However, now that I've read many of the responses on here I think I'm going to start using premium to see if performance or gas mileage improve.
I live in Missouri and I know some years back they passed a law concerning the octane ratings purported at the pumps because they felt they weren't truthful. I haven't been out of state for awhile so I don't know if it's still the same but regular used to be 89 and premium was 93 octane. Here it's 87 and 91 and the mid-grade is 89. That may mean I can use mid-grade and satisfy Jaguar's recommendation. For now I going to go with premium for a while and see how it goes.
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Dallas Rockford (09-22-2016)
#22
08-13-2016, 03:01 PM
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I have read this same discussion many times on the forum.
What it comes down to is that some folks are just very frugal (AKA cheap) in all aspects of their lives.
They will put a 40 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture to save a few pennies on the electric bill. They buy bargain brand batteries, toilet paper, tires, oil and fuel. Keep the heat on low and the A/C on high and suffer the cold and heat along with their families. They will drive all the way across town to save .02 per gallon on gas, burning $4 worth to get there. They clip coupons, shop sales and resale shops, and wear the same shoes, belt and jeans for 20 years.
They love to talk about how much they "saved" on anything they bought and why you got taken on your purchase of a similar item.
The last jewelry they bought their wife was her engagement ring 25 years ago, which may be actually be a cubic zirconia. Who is stupid enough to pay that much for a silly "rock" anyway?
They have convinced themselves that we are the foolish ones who "spend more that we have to" to get the same results. And usually, you cannot convince them otherwise.
They also buy luxury, high performance cars used because they let someone else take the depreciation hit because they are too "smart" to buy new, then run them into the ground for lack of proper maintenance, fluid change requirements and such. They are smarter than the automotive engineers who make up the specs and refuse to be taken in by the higher costs of the maintenance recommendations suggested by the manufacturer.
They are smarter than you too.
They are universally loved and appreciated by local merchants, neighbors and their in-laws, who run when they see them coming. They are a lot of fun to be around too.
You will know when their funeral motorcade finally goes by. It will be the one with the hearse towing a trailer full of all the money they "saved" over their lifetime.
Vector
What it comes down to is that some folks are just very frugal (AKA cheap) in all aspects of their lives.
They will put a 40 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture to save a few pennies on the electric bill. They buy bargain brand batteries, toilet paper, tires, oil and fuel. Keep the heat on low and the A/C on high and suffer the cold and heat along with their families. They will drive all the way across town to save .02 per gallon on gas, burning $4 worth to get there. They clip coupons, shop sales and resale shops, and wear the same shoes, belt and jeans for 20 years.
They love to talk about how much they "saved" on anything they bought and why you got taken on your purchase of a similar item.
The last jewelry they bought their wife was her engagement ring 25 years ago, which may be actually be a cubic zirconia. Who is stupid enough to pay that much for a silly "rock" anyway?
They have convinced themselves that we are the foolish ones who "spend more that we have to" to get the same results. And usually, you cannot convince them otherwise.
They also buy luxury, high performance cars used because they let someone else take the depreciation hit because they are too "smart" to buy new, then run them into the ground for lack of proper maintenance, fluid change requirements and such. They are smarter than the automotive engineers who make up the specs and refuse to be taken in by the higher costs of the maintenance recommendations suggested by the manufacturer.
They are smarter than you too.
They are universally loved and appreciated by local merchants, neighbors and their in-laws, who run when they see them coming. They are a lot of fun to be around too.
You will know when their funeral motorcade finally goes by. It will be the one with the hearse towing a trailer full of all the money they "saved" over their lifetime.
Vector
I'm working past normal retirement because I can't afford to quit. So I do:
- I never leave the light on in a room I'm not in.
- AC 78 w/ceiling fan in summer
- Heat 58 w/long sleeve shirt in winter.
- Minimize use of water, especially hot water.
- Buy used cars and run them into the ground
- Skimp on car maintenance.
- do coupons.
- Waste gas chasing down a sale.
- Project my practices on others or judge them for not doing the same.
Last edited by CodeRider1; 08-13-2016 at 03:06 PM.
#23
08-14-2016, 06:48 AM
First of all, I see you are new here, welcome!
Second, making assumptions about my family is a poor choice for your 6th post.
Oil/fuel octane/dealer service/tires - start a thread about any of these and you will get some strong opinions.
My post was a comical rant, if you can't see that then maybe you need to put a higher wattage bulb in the fixture. (You can compensate for poor eyesight with good lighting.)
Vector
(The spendthrift)
#24
08-14-2016, 01:15 PM
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Code-
First of all, I see you are new here, welcome!
Second, making assumptions about my family is a poor choice for your 6th post.
Oil/fuel octane/dealer service/tires - start a thread about any of these and you will get some strong opinions.
My post was a comical rant, if you can't see that then maybe you need to put a higher wattage bulb in the fixture. (You can compensate for poor eyesight with good lighting.)
Vector
(The spendthrift)
First of all, I see you are new here, welcome!
Second, making assumptions about my family is a poor choice for your 6th post.
Oil/fuel octane/dealer service/tires - start a thread about any of these and you will get some strong opinions.
My post was a comical rant, if you can't see that then maybe you need to put a higher wattage bulb in the fixture. (You can compensate for poor eyesight with good lighting.)
Vector
(The spendthrift)
I didn't take your rant as comical because it was too accurate and I presumed must have come from some personal experience. Shouldn't assume I guess. No offense intended, I hope none taken. I may not need a brighter light bulb so much as to just turn it on.
#25
08-15-2016, 09:28 AM
Vector
#26
08-23-2016, 09:55 AM
Senior Member
I am no fuel expert, but it would seem logical that various fuels have different additives.
I had to fill up at a Global station which might be considered an off-brand and got approximately 22mpg over 2,000 miles. Using Mobil, I seemed to get 26mpg over the same distance. The Mobil cost about 10% more.
The hassle is keeping a running record on my smart phone, since I have no faith in the digital fuel gauge's accuracy.
The octane was 93 in either case. Wish I could find a higher octane here in the northeast.
I had to fill up at a Global station which might be considered an off-brand and got approximately 22mpg over 2,000 miles. Using Mobil, I seemed to get 26mpg over the same distance. The Mobil cost about 10% more.
The hassle is keeping a running record on my smart phone, since I have no faith in the digital fuel gauge's accuracy.
The octane was 93 in either case. Wish I could find a higher octane here in the northeast.
#27
08-23-2016, 10:13 AM
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Perth Ontario Canada
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As proven by the recent AAA study, any performance difference due to additives would take thousands of miles to become apparent. Even then, it would be at best maybe 1 mpg. Their words, not mine.
Again, octane rating has no connection to additive quantity or quality. Your XF achieves full rated performance on 91 octane. Using anything higher is pure waste.
Again, octane rating has no connection to additive quantity or quality. Your XF achieves full rated performance on 91 octane. Using anything higher is pure waste.
#28
08-25-2016, 12:25 AM
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I am no fuel expert, but it would seem logical that various fuels have different additives.
I had to fill up at a Global station which might be considered an off-brand and got approximately 22mpg over 2,000 miles. Using Mobil, I seemed to get 26mpg over the same distance. The Mobil cost about 10% more.
The hassle is keeping a running record on my smart phone, since I have no faith in the digital fuel gauge's accuracy.
The octane was 93 in either case. Wish I could find a higher octane here in the northeast.
I had to fill up at a Global station which might be considered an off-brand and got approximately 22mpg over 2,000 miles. Using Mobil, I seemed to get 26mpg over the same distance. The Mobil cost about 10% more.
The hassle is keeping a running record on my smart phone, since I have no faith in the digital fuel gauge's accuracy.
The octane was 93 in either case. Wish I could find a higher octane here in the northeast.
I'd love to get 26 mpg. I might start trying some other brands. Casey's really has taken over most of the gas stations in the area plus they've built several new ones.
The electronic trip computer seems to be pretty accurate on Avg MPG, like within 1/2 mpg.
#29
08-25-2016, 01:43 AM
Veteran Member
real differences in quality, and in fact advise others that there is
no difference in quality. All in the hope of dispelling that nagging
feeling that they are missing out on something. By dragging others
down to their level, they hope that they are less below average.
As they pump the lowest grade of fuel at Costco.
#30
08-25-2016, 01:46 AM
Veteran Member
#31
08-25-2016, 02:02 AM
Veteran Member
Jaguar engines do not have the same octane requirement world wide
An important point to note before accepting the argument that
all Jaguar engines of a specific type in a specific model year
have the same octane requirement due to be the same mechanical
specification is this:
Many aspects of the engine's performance are controlled by the
PCM. This includes ignition advance and fuel delivery based
upon a multitude of parameter maps.
That might be well and fine .... except
Jaguar vehicles since at least X300 vintage are loaded with
market specific parameter files. Therefore, the parameter
maps are market specific and therein lies the differences in
fuel and ignition management. Anyone who has trolled through
the files installed with IDS/SDD would know this.
Therefore, even if an engine is mechanically identical, the
managment, and hence octane requirements are tailored to
the specific fuels available in the local market. If a market
has poorer fuel, the files will allow for that, if a market
has better fuel, the files will take advantage of that.
If someone pumps their gas from the cheapest pump
at Costco ... well no, the files won't account for that.
The same is true of oil specifications. ACEA for ROW, and
SAE for North America.
The bottom line is that any claims have to be considered
with a critical mind.
Interesting trivia: troll through the IDS/SDD files deep enough
and you will find for example, police vehicle specific files for
some models. Might be an interesting load
all Jaguar engines of a specific type in a specific model year
have the same octane requirement due to be the same mechanical
specification is this:
Many aspects of the engine's performance are controlled by the
PCM. This includes ignition advance and fuel delivery based
upon a multitude of parameter maps.
That might be well and fine .... except
Jaguar vehicles since at least X300 vintage are loaded with
market specific parameter files. Therefore, the parameter
maps are market specific and therein lies the differences in
fuel and ignition management. Anyone who has trolled through
the files installed with IDS/SDD would know this.
Therefore, even if an engine is mechanically identical, the
managment, and hence octane requirements are tailored to
the specific fuels available in the local market. If a market
has poorer fuel, the files will allow for that, if a market
has better fuel, the files will take advantage of that.
If someone pumps their gas from the cheapest pump
at Costco ... well no, the files won't account for that.
The same is true of oil specifications. ACEA for ROW, and
SAE for North America.
The bottom line is that any claims have to be considered
with a critical mind.
Interesting trivia: troll through the IDS/SDD files deep enough
and you will find for example, police vehicle specific files for
some models. Might be an interesting load
#32
08-25-2016, 02:08 AM
Veteran Member
That one is actually true ... at least to the point of
oil refiners gaming pricing such that miles per dollar
are equivalent.
I have also posted more than once that it is observable.
Since my vehicle specifically calls for premium, and
since the only locally available ethanol free gasoline is
only available as premium ... there is no reason to use
anything else.
That effectively takes out your other two myth claims
in my situation.
Shell V-Power Premium if anyone is curious.
++
#33
08-25-2016, 02:13 AM
Veteran Member
up on JF. There are those who care not for technical discussion,
but rather are intent on being validated by trying to shape
others into their own miserable selves.
#34
08-25-2016, 09:40 AM
Forgetting which Jag I am out in, so Premuim sorts that little process fairly well, and I can worry about more important things, like:
Watching where I am going
Why am I out the first place
Which way is home.
THEN
Was I supposed to pick her up at the shopping centre, or is she meeting me at home, or has she been at home all along?????????.
SEEEEEEE
Petrol is the least of my worries, I got too many things on my mind.
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cr500 (01-02-2017)
#35
08-25-2016, 09:59 AM
Join Date: Oct 2009
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#36
08-25-2016, 03:25 PM
Veteran Member
"big octane = big MPG"
That one is actually true ... at least to the point of
oil refiners gaming pricing such that miles per dollar
are equivalent.
I have also posted more than once that it is observable.
Since my vehicle specifically calls for premium, and
since the only locally available ethanol free gasoline is
only available as premium ... there is no reason to use
anything else.
That effectively takes out your other two myth claims
in my situation.
Shell V-Power Premium if anyone is curious.
++
That one is actually true ... at least to the point of
oil refiners gaming pricing such that miles per dollar
are equivalent.
I have also posted more than once that it is observable.
Since my vehicle specifically calls for premium, and
since the only locally available ethanol free gasoline is
only available as premium ... there is no reason to use
anything else.
That effectively takes out your other two myth claims
in my situation.
Shell V-Power Premium if anyone is curious.
++
#37
09-03-2016, 03:15 PM
Junior Member
#38
09-04-2016, 05:47 AM
I couldn't tell any difference, other than the smell, and at $9 per gallon (it is "race fuel" sold by Sunoco) I am opting out.
Back when all fuel had lead in it and we didn't have to worry about damaging catalytic converters, we used to go to the airport and fuel up with aviation fuel, I think you could get 100 octane or more, don't remember for sure. Made my 351 Ford engine stop pinging on hard acceleration and run like a scalded dog!
I do love the smell of av gas! I am a student pilot too so that smell usually means fun times are coming.
Gasoline type aviation fuel is now 100 octane "low lead," but the lead content in it is still very high and will damage/ruin your cats.
Just don't fill up with Jet Fuel either, it is kerosene!
Vector
Last edited by Vector; 09-04-2016 at 05:50 AM.
#39
09-04-2016, 11:10 AM
Veteran Member
I have used 100 octane in another one of my cars just for fun. I mixed it in the correct ratio with 90 octane ethanol free fuel to get 93 octane.
I couldn't tell any difference, other than the smell, and at $9 per gallon (it is "race fuel" sold by Sunoco) I am opting out.
Back when all fuel had lead in it and we didn't have to worry about damaging catalytic converters, we used to go to the airport and fuel up with aviation fuel, I think you could get 100 octane or more, don't remember for sure. Made my 351 Ford engine stop pinging on hard acceleration and run like a scalded dog!
I do love the smell of av gas! I am a student pilot too so that smell usually means fun times are coming.
Gasoline type aviation fuel is now 100 octane "low lead," but the lead content in it is still very high and will damage/ruin your cats.
Just don't fill up with Jet Fuel either, it is kerosene!
Vector
I couldn't tell any difference, other than the smell, and at $9 per gallon (it is "race fuel" sold by Sunoco) I am opting out.
Back when all fuel had lead in it and we didn't have to worry about damaging catalytic converters, we used to go to the airport and fuel up with aviation fuel, I think you could get 100 octane or more, don't remember for sure. Made my 351 Ford engine stop pinging on hard acceleration and run like a scalded dog!
I do love the smell of av gas! I am a student pilot too so that smell usually means fun times are coming.
Gasoline type aviation fuel is now 100 octane "low lead," but the lead content in it is still very high and will damage/ruin your cats.
Just don't fill up with Jet Fuel either, it is kerosene!
Vector
#40
09-04-2016, 11:13 AM
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I used to put Sunoco 94 octane in my bike occasionally but it's not available around here. Like I've mentioned before, the highest octane available in Missouri is 91, which is 93 anywhere else. I always liked Shell gas in my younger days and I was tempted to try their premium-Nitro but at almost $.50 gal over other premium price, I thought better of it. I still might try once but I don't need a $7-$8 increase per tank full.
Last edited by CodeRider1; 09-04-2016 at 11:25 AM.
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