Hey, John,

Torque is 27 Nm or 20 lbft. I don't think you will find anything in JTIS regarding anti-sieze. They never seem to touch on the subject. When I ask, the answer is they defer to the manufacturer on that. The manufacturers take is that the bright, plated plugs [like your NGK's] should not have anti-sieze applied; but the dark non-plated plugs [like AC or Motorcraft] should.

You'll find lots of opinions about anti-sieze, but I live by that one.

Cheers,

 

Steve,

I am ok with that and I respect your position but when I asked Champion, Autolite & Bosch I received no reply. ACDelco deferred my question to Customer Assistance Center and they had no reply and wondered why I was told to contact them. NGK just recently asked that I contact NGK Tech Support.

If it is so important that you do or do not use Anti-Sieze why is it that they (the spark plug manufactures) not expressing a huge concern?

I think it is a position of no harm no foul! I personally will continue to do what I am doing and be sure I continue to use the torque values as expressed by the manufactures and not look back.

I will contact NKG tech support and see what they have to say but the way I look at this 4 out of 5 do not really care.

 

And I'm good with that, Gus. Which is why I made it clear that was just my opinion.

I'm puzzled why NGK couldn't give you a quick answer. A lot of my research has relied on them. Attached is what they have provided me.

Anything on the trans yet??

Cheers,

 

I have a copy of the first document by Author tsteffer Titled 3/7/2006 but I do not have the one by Jason Norwood created 8/11/2011 I wonder if they still work for them or if they ever did? I will be calling them to see what they have to say today about the issue. What I did find strange was that none of the other plug manufactures see it to be an issue they want to discuss. With that I say is it an issue?

The trans is still doing well. I hate it when I need to go behind someone and correct a problem they overlooked after I told them to check it twice.

 

Steve, thanks.

Yeah I had the torque force (Nm etc) but was wondering what it would be as an angle. I really like the concept as to why angle is what really matters because of what it is doing. plums got me thinking

Interesting on the anti-seize as the last long-life set I did were in a Ford and I used the proper Motorcraft ones. Ford's TIS stated exactly which anti-seize to use.

I'm planning to put the NGKs in dry. Jag generally seem pretty good at stating if you SHOULD use a lubricant/etc so being silent says to me they don't expect any to be used. Same as the lug nuts where they even clarified not to (much as I don't like it, but hey I've had the car 4 years and still take wheels off at every service without major trouble even here with so much salt etc).

 

I just got off the phone with NGK and in short they told me that NGK plugs are cold rolled and they use a plating on them. This process in manufacturing the plugs makes a smooth surface that could result in the over torque of their plugs. The process they use is also unique in that the plating will provide easy removal.

As for other manufactures I was unable to get a response and that leads me to believe that not all are concerned with the application of anti-seize or do not wish to comment. However, it is my understanding that other plug manufactures are moving towards the plating. So, with that being said it would be up to you to find out if the plugs are plated and if you should use anti –seize or not for that plug.

 

Encourages me not to use the anti-seize I wasn't going to use anyway LOL

Might play with torque angle with the old plugs (but not in the engine).

Is there an icon for tearing hair out?

 

The anti-seize details I have seen are in the Jaguar engine repair course manual.

The additional consideration to ponder is that the angle does not change whether or not there is lubrication present on the threads.

The plug manufacturers will generally publish angle specs in their literature along with the conventional force specs.

Note that the angle may be different for each type of plug interface. For example, gasketed 14mm versus taper seat 14mm.

In the case of NGK in the design used for the Jaguar V8, it is 1/2 turn according to my notes after gasket seating by hand without leverage on NEW plugs. And, only 1/12 turn on reuse. So, be careful when playing with your old plugs.

When I did this with a torque wrench after allowing for the presence of lubrication the angle achieved consistently matched the position achieved when torquing by their recommended force with their recommended adjustment for the presence of lubricant.

Notice that they did have a recommendation for the required force adjustment when lubricant is used. Therefore, it is implicit that they recognise the use of lubricant. There is no prohibition on the use of lubricant on that page. Simply a note that there is an adjustment required when using a torque wrench.

The Denso documentation is much the same in terms of values for the same applications.

Note that you might not find it in the documentation intended for the US market and need to go to the main Japanese or international sites.

Perhaps the root of the "simplification" is the limited space on the blister packs for a full treatment of the subject and a desire limit operator error on the part of those who have not considered all the possibilities.

 

With the sue happy people of the US, it does not surprise me that a lot of the plug manufacturers are mum on the subject of applying lube or not to apply lube. Any good lawyer could argue either case if for some reason the plug was to fail and lead to damage of your engine. Then the plug manufacturer would be on the hook for the engine repair. So, it is easier to say "we have no comment" than to make a recommendation.

 

I'm not sure that it's possible to actually tear hair out, at least significant clump of it. The structure of the human skeleton and muscle placement means that only a relatively minor amount of strength and grip is available with either hand when attempting to grip the scalp. Possibly twisting the hair out might be more successful, as the wrist is capable of applying significant torque irrespective of arm position.

The same wrist action, when applied to a lever such as a spanner/wrench would be just about enough to snug up a spark plug though.

Has anybody got any thoughts on using anti-seize as a hair tonic? How about hair tonic as an anti-seize?

 

plums - thanks

Mikey - LOL

 

Mikey, I can assure you that ripping out lots of hair from ones own head is possible. My time on the sub proved that one. We had an officer that was fairly high ranking that decided to run drills on us enlisted guys and he didn't realize what he had proposed. Needless to say, when the drill started and he saw where things were going (thinking we were going to blow the plant up), he lost his mind. We knew the plant could handle it (he didn't due to his lack of knowledge about the plant), but he ended up completely loosing his mind and pulling out more hair from his head than I care to admit to. I ended up pulling out a broom because it looked like someone had gotten their hair cut. Oh the days of being on a submarine for a living.

 

I hesitate to ask where the broom had been stowed and whether anti-seize was a factor.

 

MIkey, now that you mention it, the anti-sieze makes sure the broom doesn't get stuck when I pull it out of my ...... Oh never mind. Remember, it is a submarine. Not a lot of places to store stuff, so, you have to get creative.

Gotta love leaving sentences only half done and where you can take the rest of the sentence.

 

One good place for a.s ,is on the bolts that hold the under carriage shield that i remove to change the oil.

 

Hello everyone,
I don't know if this has been seen before as I am new to the forum but maybe this bulletin will help to shed light on the subject
http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Auto...1antisieze.pdf

 

Yes we have seen this and it is part of this thread. Good to know someone is reading information on my page..

Thanks

 

Used this for years in the A&P (airframe and powerplant) shop at my local field when I was turning wrenches:

CHAMPION SPARK PLUGANTI-SEIZE from Aircraft Spruce

a little dab up at the base (ie away from the electrode end) of the threads; it would flash off, and leave a very thin layer of graphite behind...and the end of the plug where rust/corrosion would tend to accumulate. Never had a problem torquing the plug in to the mfr spec (aircraft cylinder heads are an AL/? composite...and the holes were helicoiled, so, YMMV.

I don't like that goopy silver stuff they sell by the quart from permatex/etc at the local parts shop. Figure if it's good enough for an aircraft...should be useable (within bounds) on the ground. After all, the implications of blowing a plug out a 5000' on a rainy approach to a short runway are a lot more serious than running down the twisties on 4 wheels on a sunny day, no?

 

Having been in the motor trade for over 30 years, all I can say is that steel and aluminum is never a happy marriage...so no mater if a spark plug has a taper seat and it is going into an ally head I have always used a little dab of copper slip. What I have never used on a spark plug is a torque wrench...and I have never had a problem.

I have had plugs snap off on new customer used vehicles in the workshop and have done many thread repairs in situ. These were all caused by some knuckle head on the end of a plug spanner!

Yes I do use copper slip on wheel nuts.

 

I even use anti-seize on the back of my Aluminum wheels against the steel
hubs. No more hard to remove wheels for me!!!! For lug nut torques, be aware
there is a different torque for wet(anti-seize) and dry values.
There's plenty of info on the Web. A bit of investigation is needed
and here's a place to start:

Wet vs. Dry Torque Values

Blue Skys All!!!!