OR, I could try to improve further on the existing parts...just because someone else in the past did not reach as high, their past performance did not set the limit. If I am correct, then I think I see areas where larger gains than they made could still be done. I think I, with a little help from my muppet friends, can raise the bar. To be fair, I am also riding the shirt-tails of the few others who have posted on this board, with respect to a few enhanced mods.

As I said in my above post, and as an example, what numbers have modified intakes actually posted on dynos? maybe 12 hp?
What would you say if I showed a dyno from a newly designed intake system of a gain of double or more than double that?

It has not all been done. Take a look at all these 4.6 l Eaton supercharged mustangs, fortunately for them, they have never heard of the 13 second barrier for eaton M112 supercharged cars.

Would you hold your ground that it has all been done before and they have hit the limit at the +12 hp for an X308 intake mod, or would you concede that significant progress can still be made? I expect that you would say something along the lines of, well, of course if you did it that way...but only after I showed you how.

So, to be clear, you are completely of the opinion that my car, with an Eaton M112 blower cannot do a 12.5 1/4 mile. Please respond and commit yourself to that number. I want it in writing, set in stone that this is your opinion as you think is fact. There will be a test on this later.

Remember Chevy said the electric car could not be made.
We passed the theoretical limit of speed in which humans can breath at a mile a minute a long time ago.
The earth is not flat, we have been to the moon.
HP numbers per liter will continue to climb, why not it be us that moves the ball forward a little?
Things change because people come along and move the ball forward, why not those people be us?

What was that quote by Einstein, "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from.."

 

When we are talking about real, every day street cars, we have to use DOT, street legal tires. MH Street Radials II 245/40/18 is a good choice.
I drove 13.604/105.4 with traction problems ( normal street tires, slippery airfield, too high temperature for best times ) . Resolving those three simple things time will be 0.4-0.5sec faster and since the engine has had too small BMC CDA. We will change it including full intake from the TB. That should be enough for 12.9/108, but most probably that's at the very limits of the capacity my car has with current configuration.

We have to remember that 99.9% of our Jaguar driving is other than 1/4mile testings

 

I, for one, thoroughly enjoy the process of trying to improve the state of the art, and, therefore, am enjoying researching, designing, and testing, then playing with the finished products of all that.

The more people tell me it can't be done, the more determined I am to get there. This has always been in my blood, to try to do better, to move the ball down the field.

A very good friend of mine has recently invented a new technique of heart surgery which allows the heart to continue pumping while the surgery is being performed. This was never done before. He asked me " Do you think heart surgery will be done the same in 20 years as it is today?" to which I replied "Of course not." To which he replied, "Then why shouldn't I be the one to change it?" I subscribe to this empowered way of life.

This is fun stuff. I love running down the drag strip, and working on these improvements.

 

Well , my experience with forced induction engines and running the fuel system out on the edge of its limits, is looking for another engine.

and once a F/I engine has blown up they usually dont repair cheaply.

 

its old as time ,add air, then add fuel,then more air ,and then more fuel, at some point you will reach the engines integrity limit.

then start over,
any one her reached 1 bar inlet manifold yet??

simple ,right!

 

Yup, just a big air pump..the more O2 you can get in, the more fuel you can match to the O2, the more power, it is as simple as that...

What do you mean 1 bar inlet pressure, do you mean 14.5 psi before the TB? That would be quite a ram air system!

Simple, but not easy

And JgaXkr and Cambo351: I totally agree that the best bang for the buck would be the 3.77 LSD. You are totally correct on that one. I may need to do that to reach my 12.5 goal, but I'm first going to try a few easier bolt and weld on mods to get a little closer to the 13 second mark.

 

1 bar inlet manifold pressure, 14.7 psi, or 1 atmosphere of pressure above , measured with a gage, testing could be done with inches of water(to much work).

engines do respond well in the 7-12 gage pressure, BUT the real magic happens after 15psi.
everything changes quickly, performance becomes breath taking.

couple weeks back,at a local race shop, on the Dyno an old 93 Toyota SC300, Inline 6 cylinder 3.4L ,did a 1200 rwhp, pull.

so i asked the dyno operator what was the boost for that run, he showed me the chart,YIKES, 42 PSIG, forty two lbs boost, the fuel system is NOT stock.hehe.

at those types of power you have to have a GOOD tuner, at the Laptop, some of these guys are magicians, its like they have a 7th sense or somthing!

 

12.5 second 1/4 mile should be easy. Heck, I did 12.996 with ONLY exhaust and intake mods and old, bald street tires. Empty trunk, 1/4 tank of gas, cool weather. Ran a few 13.0x as well. 60' times were all slower than 2.0 sec. Drag radials would knock off a few more tenths. And then more boost, water injection, tune etc. Not to mention LSD and shorter gearing. 12.5 seconds hard or impossible? Ha ha, no, I don't think so.

Btw, your far superior, never before done intake, has been done years ago by me. And probably years before someone else did it before me. And I doubt yours will be better than mine.

 

I see you are not drinking the same cool-aid as the "Eatons can't break 13 seconds crowd." Good on you.

What was YOUR intake and separately exhaust hp gain? What was your design and do you have any proof of the gain like a dyno?

Have you made any other "much better than what is currently out there" mods? I would love to see what has been done.

 

I don't have separate dynos for them. But I do have a bunch of separate 1/4 mile runs for each mod.

I kind of wanted to to see how for I could push it by adding an lsd and using drag radials and maybe a few other things with the stock supercharger, but decided to go another route.

My intake does look better flowing and less restrictive than any I've seen. And the Macleod 2.5" X-pipe exhaust I have is better than the generic Magnacrap stamped x-pipe everyone else uses. Although I didn't see as much gains with the exhaust as expected. Most of my gains came from the intake. However, I doubt that my intake results would have been the same without the exhaust. And I'm sure the exhaust would show higher gains if added after the intake and vice versa.

No other 'special' mods.

 

I am happy to accept 1/4 mile time slips as proof.

Frankly I prefer actual performance slips to dynos because dyno numbers can be manipulated and no 2 dynos read the same.

There has been far too much "wiggle room" in peoples reports of what they "have done" so us posting actual performances will eliminate that. 1/4 mile Correction factors for temp/baro/altitude are generally accepted as being reliable and I accept that too. Anybody can post a 1000HP dyno printout and say it was their own car. When I am done with my car I am going to post a video of it's full run down the 1/4 mile.

The 1/4 mile time slips will never lie on the high side.

Please post the time slips and the explanation of what mod was done to get the seen improvement.

What were the improvements time wise and what does your car weigh?

What would you reasonably estimate your hp gains were. I want you to commit to a number. That way I have a benchmark to compare to.

 

No one knows because he says he hasn't dynoed or ran at the drag strip. He doesn't want to destroy the dyno or tear the pavement off the track.



Sorry Jgaxkr, couldn't resist

 

Agreed, his car must be an absolute monster!

 

Any update on this?
Why 490hp. Is there a concern the gearbox or diff will fall apart with any higher hp?

 

We are discussing the same motor in various chassis. Quarter mile times/speed will vary on so many factors - chassis weight, track surface, temperature, driver skill as to make comparisons difficult.
Better, I think, to focus on dyno curves. Most published dyno results cite only max hp and, sometimes, max torque. I think more relevant is "average horsepower and torque."
I highly recommend A. Graham Bell's book "Forced Induction Performance Tuning", last reprinted in 2004. I think it is out of print now, and hard to find.
Bell is British and now living in Australia. His writings combine British tuning with American hot rodding. Great reads. Same with David Vizard's writings.
I hope tuners in this forum will do A/B dyno testing, and continue to share their results. Thanks everyone.

 

right on rey, nobody ever knows enough knowledge!

seems this thread is dead ,anyway.

 

Most dynos today also measure air/fuel ratio. That was not always the case. My opinion is that if you are able to achieve the best fuel/ratio for power at wide open throttle (open loop), then you will have optimized power for your particular intake/camshaft/exhaust/etc combination. My tuner says 12.5:1 is a good goal, mabe a bit richer for a blown motor.
Obviously, if at wide open throttle you are running lean, then you need more fuel.
Air/Fuel ratio meter used to cost thousands - mine was $2500 ten years ago. Now they can be found for $350 or so. What this means is that you do not need a dyno to tune your motor. Tune from an air/fuel ratio meter. Once optimum mixture is obtained, a dyno will simply confirm your power level.

 

AF/ratios can vary, my experiance is 12.5:1 is great for N/A engines, but 11.5 or lower with forced induction gives a little more safety to reduce possible detonation, i had a Mazda rotary that needed around 10.1 at 20psi boost, learned the hard way about those little screamers!

but seems lately water /alky systems are changing for F/Induction, at a local dyno shop tuner guy was able to get almost 100hp more before things got edgy, he did not have to pull timing at all going into boost, and was able to stay border line lean!
it was on a 1993 Toyota SC300, inline 6! over 1100 whp.

of course he does use a AF meter, and his ears, and senses.

today tuning has become an art form(maybe always has been).

 

HEY, check out the post on 550hp thread!