Does anyone know of an online resource to estimate the avg # of hours to perform repairs?

Thank you,
SirJag

 

At the top of the XK8 forum in the FAQ thread you will find a parts catalog in two links. It is the insurance adjusters estimating book. It deals far more with the bolt on stuff rather than things like changing plugs but will give you an idea in that area.

Don't think I have seen the repair manual version but if anyone has it it will get posted sooner or later.

 

Alldata, mitchell on demand, and motors. 3 off the top of my head. Keep in mind that they dont cover everything, nor are they accurate. Try say 3 hours to remove and replace a part on the right side of the car, and 3.7 to do both sides...excuse i have to do the exact same proceedure on the other side and the only overlap is i have the car in the shop and tools out, and it should take me only .7 to do the same repair as the 3.0 on the other side?????
Wtf!!!! Friggen idiots write these books that are "guides" but try and get an extended warranty company to see it that way and pay 3 hours per side

 

I know of one. It is called jaguarforums.com!

Seriously, whenever possible do the work yourself. We all have something that is beyond our skill set or maybe something that takes more than one person to do. I've learned this very quickly - the only way to own one of these is to do as much on your own as you can. Dealers and even independents will dip it in sand and then butt rape you if you if you let them.

 

Brutal,

Is there an publishable job time document from the Jaguar Dealer perspective.

 

There was a CD issued by Jaguar called ROT (repair operation time) and later revised to be called RTS (Repair Time Search??)

I have both versions on CD but it is a Jaguar Warranty repair time guide and has no real world relevance.

for example.. (eg.)
The replacement time for a 2001 XJ8 gearbox is 4.5 Hours. If you have NEVER replaced one it will take you 7 or 8 hours (or more). After several replacements averaging 2 a month you might get to 5 or 6 hours that includes replacing broken exhaust studs, checking/adding fluid etc.....

If the car is almost new and the RUST/CORROSION has not set in, you have all the factory tools and you have done several dozen, then you might get near the 4.5 hour time limit/payment from Jaguar.

When the Mitchel, Motor, Chilton time guides did not list a specific labor op, then we would use the Jaguar warranty time and multiply it by TIME AND A HALF (2.0 X 1.5= 3.0)

This is probably closer to a real world time!!

bob gauff

 

No, only warranty as Bob said and those times are always under review(and dropping)
I/we use Alldata.com. these times also for the most part only cover r n r. not diag

 

Really? I find this statement very interesting that the professionals (dealer techs) would use alldata especially Jaguar Techs.

I am just a lowly shadetree'r but have been using alldata for many years for many different vehicles. For the money I have found it very useful. For the projected timelines they offer, I find them pretty much on target.

For the wifes Jaguar, we plan on a long ownership, so I took out the 5 year alldata plan that equates to somewhere around $10.00 a year. When I have to much time on my hands, I find myself just "reading up" on stuff.

 

Hi
I found this discount code for the 1 year Alldata subscription. The price on their website is $26.95. Discount price is $19.95 and the Promo code is NET27782. Put this promo code in the gift certificate box on the checkout webpage.


I bought this 1 year subscription this morning and will post my views on it after I get some experience with it.
If I find out that I want to keep on using it, I will do a 5 year renewal for $29.95 after this 1 year subscription ends.

Here is an example of the result of doing a cooling system lookup for outlet hose labor hours:


This is the last example of alldata searches I will put in this post - Replace Thermostat Housing:


I think I am ok with the copyrights issue because my snagit copies of these 2 webpages are just my way of illustrating what is available and how it is being presented.

 

LOL WHY DO YOU THINK I TAKE OFFENSE TO THE WORD ***********, I MEEN HELL I ONLY MAKE 17% OF THE DRIVE RATE AND FEEL THAT IM TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY THE INDUSTRY (READ MY POST ON TIMES ABOVE AGAIN)
AND LIKE I SAID TRYING TO GET DIAG TIME IS SOMETIMES LIKE PULLIN TEETH FROM CHICKENS. IM MORE THAN FAIR, BUT WHAT DO PEOPLE THINK ALL I HAVE TO DO IS LAY MY HANDS ON A CAR TO KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, OR CONSULT THE MAGIC 8 BALL OR CRYSTAL BALL?????
TRUST ME WHEN I SAY IM SICK AND TIRED OF GETTING PAID A DIAG FEE BY EITHER CUSTOMERS OR INDEPENDANT SHOPS TO FIGURE OUT WHATS WRONG WITH THEIR JAG AND PAY SOMEONE ELSE TO DO THE WORK CAUSE THEY DONT HAVE THE EQUIPMENT OR KNOWLEDGE. NO ONE WOULD GO BUY A NEW JAGUAR AT A SMALL STRIP MALL SHOP, OR LOCAL CAR LOT, JAGUAR AND MANY OTHER MANUFACTURERS "REQUIRE" NICE LUXURIOUS PLACES TO TAKE YOUR PRIDE AND JOY LUXURY CARS, BOTH FOR SERVICE AND TO BUY. THESE FACILTIES COST ALOT JUST TO KEEP THE DOORS OPEN MUCH LESS BUILD. MAKES IT ALITTLE HARD TO SERVICE PEOPLE WITH CAVIAR TASTES AND BEER BUDGETS..AND THAT JUST MAKES IT HARD JUST FOR ME TO BUY BEER

 

Brutal:
The cost of opening the doors of any auto dealership is not something the general public can understand. Luxury car dealers have relatively low sales (by units) relative to Chevy, Ford and Toyota dealerships--maybe 60% less sales. Luxury car dealer palaces probably cost the same to run as hi volume dealers.

Relatively low new and used car unit sales puts Parts and Service Departments in a pressure cooker to cover a larger portion of total dealership overhead. (Luxury car dealerships often do not have their own body shops producing sales.)

Service Technicians are often victims of the factories when it comes to base rate hours for doing a set job. On the other hand, the factories pay the bills, and manufacturers have allowed dealership hourly labor rates to climb to ridiculous levels.


While there are some job tasks that take longer than the base rate, there are many jobs that an experienced technician can ace. Some problems are hard to diagnose, and some problems are seen day after day--resulting in repairs in far less than factory time.

For example, my recently departed son in law was a high producing Chevy mechanic averaging 53 hours per week labor. He was paid 13 hours labor to rebuild a 2x4 C1500 automatic transmission--that only took him 3 hours to R&R.

Unfortunately, auto forums by nature are full of people having problems. We don't hear about all the dependable Jaguars, satisfied owners and great dealerships staffed by hard working, dedicated employees.

My biggest Jaguar gripe is in the absolutely ridiculous cost of Jaguar parts, which places a great responsibility on Service Technicians. You cannot just throw $3K-$5K in parts into a repair until the lights go out. An accurate diagnosis is absolutely mandatory in modern day automobiles--something you're paid well for.

The day of the shade tree mechanic has long since gone--especially since 100% of all 2008 and later cars have CAN BUS electonics. Jaguars have been hi tech since around 1996. There will always be a demand for high tech mechanics--and even more demand for technicians with enough common sense to do repairs without using flow charts.

If working in a dealership service department gets on your nerves, you have high job skills. Sugarland, TX is a very affluent place, and a quality, honest eurocar repair shop in the Houston market could be a gold mine if properly run.

 

I learn more and more about dealerships and what the blue-collar guys do on a daily basis to earn a living. I would have never guessed that was typical protocols. No wonder some techs can be hesitant to offer 'discounted' diagnostic advice and recommendations, hoping to please the customer and earn the repair work, then find them take their car home or to an indy for service. And THEN, you hear of the customer (but not around these forums...never ) raising a big stink over paying an outrageous $125 / hour diagnostic fee, minimum one hour. There's just no way to please everyone it seems....and personally, I understand being charged...and expect it. Its when I don't get charged 3 out of 4 times for a check of the car, that makes the dealer my first call for an appointment when I find a maintenance or service item that is above my level of personal comfort to take on in the garage. I guess that puts me into the minority that most jaguar service techs wish they had more of (or at least I hope they think of me that way).

for instance, a couple weeks ago, I had an alignment performed by the dealer after orchestrating the front suspension rebuild by my own two, bloodied hands. The tech tells me after spending $189 for it, that my caster was still pretty far off between the two front wheels (I dropped the shims off the bolt and lost track of the original placement) so I took some advice on how to correct it (they aren't allowed to do any caster adjustment themselves) and then it'll need a new alignment to correct the toe it affects. Came back in this last weekend, expecting another $189 charge, and when it was done, I was handed a bill for $69 instead. It was a nice surprise. Maybe my $20 in kolaches saved them from taking a long lunch and could put the extra time on the other vehicles...who knows. I just know that I see a reciprocation in return visits for the infrequent rate break or even a complimentary service visit. I wish others would be able to experience what that relationship feels like, it truly feels good.

 

Two things come to mind,

.. who have hit the internet looking for a cheap fix because otherwise they would have brought it to the dealer.

.. not quite, but it requires more thought, research and finesse .. something that the "spoon feed me in 160 characters or less" types have no patience for.

There are technical gems to be found on forums, but there is also a lot of "fluff" to wade through. Watching a 30 message thread evolve about checking the coolant level can get really scary when not a single person mentions the possibility of the coolant being hot. That's the kind of stuff that parents used to teach their kids before turning over the keys.

 

It really helps when the two people treat each other with respect.

Imagine two customers.

Charles drives up in a foul mood because he hates getting his car serviced, flings the keys on the counter, makes some vague reference to something not working, and demands it be ready in some unreasonable time.

Jimmy drives up in a pretty good mood, describes his problem with some insight, acknowledges the possibility that it might be something else, is able to discuss the merits of these intelligently and gives some guidance as to what he would like the result to be.

Odds are that Jimmy is going to be pleased with the result, and Charles ... well he's never satisfied anyways.

People in every line of work love it when their best work is noticed and appreciated. For example, being able to discuss the effects of caster, camber and toe-in and how it relates to their own driving style would put someone miles ahead with an alignment specialist.

 

those are the type of people that always see the negative side of life, a 'glass half empty', and everyone is out to screw them...financially and sideways (with unclean utensils). who wants to give that person a courtesy... who wants to help those people? not me

sorry, its late.

 

Bama,
I have run my own shop back in the early 90's and was fairly successfull, maybe I should go for it again. But I suffer from a hard syndrome the "BUY INTO PITTY PARTIES" and tend to undervalue my work and give too many discounts. You have to make great money just to keep the doors open, not when times are good, but when theyre bad too. The streets are littered with businesses that operated too much on discounts and sales and favors. And there are people that want everything for free, dirtcheap, and if you let them will screw you and have no conscience to whats fair. Im speaking on both sides of the fence and humanity in general on that 1. To many are only out for themselves and will take everything they can if no one is watching, just cause you can screw someone, does it meen you should? in many people minds these days its S.O.P.
Yes I need the easy work and quick diags to offset the hard and screw me over to avg out a paycheck, theres just less and less work these days like that and way too much spend 9hrs a day to make 4-5. And has me considering "other" options and leaving. Then just letting some kids fresh out of tech school have a position in the "LUCRATIVE AUTOMOTIVE" repair industry. Knowing how to fix and diag cars these days does not = $$. I work with people that cant diag their ways out of wet papar bags but yet they get easy work that pays more hours, and even though I make more per hour as a good experianced tech, I take home less money. And talking to UK techs and Jaguar this doesnt seem to sink in that we in the US have to "PRODUCE" to make money where theyre paid salary or hourly and don't have a proper realization of time involved in repairs. When youre paid solely on a "repair" time, what about diag, time to write a estimate, get parts, talk to parts about getting the CORRECT parts ordered, talking to a customer to get proper information, working with stupid internet based IDS/SDD that locksup and crashes on you all the time and costs time, filling out unproductive(non$$$producing) paperwork...etc this leaves you "PRODUCING" much less hours than youre actually at work hense the working 9 hrs just to make 5. But of course this is all an issue at this stage or state of economy and market. yrs past there was more and more work as you said could help to offset and overcome the non productive and slow times, and short pay jobs. It just a sad state of affairs when a dealership porter is making more money than a skilled technician only because he gets paid for the hours he's there and the tech is standing around without anything to do. Of course this is one of the primary reasons I got in this industry(other than the love of cars) was because I like to excell and produce and want to be paid based on my efforts, not just my ability to stand around and look at a clock. Could you imagine the world or this country if EVERYONE actually had to produce and were paid fore the work they put out rather than just collecting paychecks and being"AT WORK" I think our government and public service offices would be cut in half... sorry I know I can rant an get long winded but I dont have anything to do at work other than be on here

 

There are a couple of alternatives.

Own a shop, but have someone else front as the "manager". That gets you out of the firing line on discounts, etc.

Work at such a shop and avoid the warranty repair times that you get at a dealer.

Oh yeah, the reason the junior techs get the gravy is because the guy in the control tower knows that you won't f.u. on the hard jobs. It's a bad approach. He's not really doing his job right because they'll never get any better.

btw ... how about some carriage returns ... pretty please?

 

Brutal, I lived and breathed and slept those problems for most of my adult life. I could write volumes on the subject.

I can't say I'm sad to be away from it.

How is the rest of the shop doin'? Are most of the other guys making their time? Or is everybody suffering?

While we all must "take the good with the bad" and suffer thru a lull every so often, a highly qualified tech flagging 5 hours/day ....assuming the service lot is full of cars... suggests something wrong with with the management/labor structure/work distribution/sales desk.

But you already know all that.

You might wanna consider a job that depends on and utilizes more of your skill and ethics rather than just banging out more-more-more billable hours. But you know that already as well :-)

Cheers and good luck,

DD

 

Yeah doug thats whats burning my azz right now, the whole shop is slow but 1 team still bangin hours and this is the time when a central dispatch should be done. The rest of the time advisors dist work depending on skills, what you have etc....all to their own teams. But watching other people knock out work when 1/2 the shop stands around in these times is bs. Im taking 3 days off(ill make more money on vacation) and im going to go do some interviews. Doug i was hired by that other company i talked to you about last year, they even gave me the salary i wanted, and i shot over my income now. But i turned it down cause its just way too much traffic and mileage. Im talking hour and a half each way and at this point in my life i dont want to spend my life in traffic followed by 9hrs a day 6 days a week. Maybe if i was single( i am but a single parent) and didnt have teens to watchout for too. But even still i dont want to work my life away and just be all work work work. Ill leave that to my dad who still at 71 works 60-70hrs a week as a doctor, and thats a reduction