Just about through all the boxes of parts! Drivetrain is now in, does anyone have a photo of what that coil bracket and air filter bracket look like? Filter is the "muffler" type RHD 340,
Thanks,
Seann

 

don't have pictures of the parts themselves, but perhaps this will be a little help--

 

Hi,
Thanks for the photo, got that all figured out...car is at the "ready to start" stage, but I don't think the aux carb is working. I've read that a hissing noise should be heard with it engaged (I've wired it to a switch), but all I get is a clunk, leading me to believe the no start is because it's so lean. I'm also wondering about a pcv valve I found in all the boxes of this Humpty Dumpty project...do these cars use one? I don't see where it would go if it's for this car,
Thanks for your help,
Seann

 

I haven't seen a PVC valve anywhere on mine. I can't provide any advice on the carburetor

 

The PC valve is from something else, there is no PC valve on a 340.
What they had was a breather at the front of the engine where one would use to adjust the upper timing chain.
The breather was routed into the underside of the air cleaner, so any crank case fumes were pulled back into the carbs.
A photo of this PC valve would be useful.

It sounds like the solenoid is working from the "clunk" sound.
The hissing comes from it after the car is running.
Atmosphere and fuel are being pulled through an orifice in the starting carb into all 6 cylinders at once _ this creates a very loud and distinct hissing sound.
It sounds like a really bad vacuum leak, but it really isn't.

Before I give you anymore advice, have you rebuilt the carbs or at least made sure that both pistons movie up and down freely ?
Have you checked that the float valves are working and everything in that area is functioning and adjusted properly ?

How is your spark and ignition timing ?

Have you initially set up the carbs for first start ?
Do you have a manual _ the manual will tell how to set up the carbs for first start.

I am going to assume that fuel is filling up the glass sediment bowl and is entering the float chambers.
There will be a distinctive clicking sound coming from the fuel pump in the boot when it's pumping fuel.

 

Hi,
I've gone through the carbs, complete dismantle and 72 hours soaking in Pinesol, gets everything very clean. Set floats, jets flush then mixture screws 3 1/2 turns, slow run 2 1/2 turns, checked magnet in aux carb (hooked up to manual switch), timing/points set, plugs gapped. Manual suggests no throttle start with aux engaged, engine will barely start then try to idle on about 2 cylinders. Any effort after that to adjust throttle, choke intakes by hand, manually lift pistons etc provide some encouragement with a few extra plug fires as if it is about to start but no. Twice with this fiddling the engine would actually race for a second or two then stop (as if it was finally getting a rush of fuel). Another treat is the occasional backfire through the aux carb directed at face. Very nice. I'm going to try the chambers with no oil to see if the pistons will rise more freely to get it going. The pcv valve is very likely from something else,
Thanks,
Seann

 

I'm not sure how much of a seasoned mechanic you are, but I'll run through some things that indicates what the problem(s) may be just from your symptoms.

Check ignition timing _ 153624 _ number one is at the back of the engine nearest the firewall.
Distributor turns counter clock wise. (it doesn't matter which one you make #1 on the distributor as long as you follow the firing order and remember it turns counter-clock wise, but I think the manual tells you #1 is nearest the engine block {with out checking})
Make sure that you're not 180 degrees out _ obviously #1 should be on compression when getting spark.
And spark should be at 6 degrees before top dead centre. (some models vary, but that is a good place to start)
Check spark plug wires with an ohm meter _ should be no more then 40 to 50,000 ohms if you're using resistor wires. Don't use resistor plugs and wire _ either one or the other.
If you use both, the the wires shouldn't be more then 40,000 ohms _ most resistor plugs measure up at 5000 ohms _ you may want to check that too.

A faulty coil _ substitute with a known working coil _ bench testing a coil with an ohm meter is not a good test. Faulty coils will bench test OK, but will not work under load.

What's the condition of the tapered needle in the starting carburetor ? Should be nice and smooth with no nicks or grooves in the taper.

It's getting plenty of gas _ the back firing through the starting carb indicates this.
Draining the oil out of the damper tubes in the carbs isn't going to help.

Make sure the butterfly valves are fully closed on the carbs. The car starts/idles and is balanced on the slow run screws only.

At this point it sounds like your ignition timing isn't right and/or faulty wires/spark plugs/coil...

 

Don't know what happened to my response to your last post....sent it a couple of days ago, don't see it now. Anyway, you were right, 180 out. Don't know exactly how, went right by the book assembling. Not first mistake wrenching for 45 years, won't be the last. Put #1 (rear) to TDC, sure enough rotor points to #5. Switched wires around and got engine to run, but still only for several seconds on several attempts. Suspect totally plugged exhaust, with car all apart for 10+ years, exhaust laying on floor, sooty acorns on shop floor now prompted todays removal of complete exhaust. With open manifolds I expected it to fire right up, but not even a puff. The second vent on this fuel pump is missing its check valve (critical?), going back over everything again....
Seann
I don't know if you saw my last post, we were in Lake Cowitchan 4-5 years ago to buy an '83 Westy (blue & white) to drive home.

 

When #1 is on compression, do the ignition timing marks on the harmonic dampener show up ?
Try connecting the coil directly to the battery and bypass the ignition key switch.
If you're still running the Lucas coil, they're probably labeled "CB" and "SW" _ "contact breaker" and "switch".
The switch side goes to the negative side of the battery if the car is positive ground.
I would still substitute another coil in there _ if you're still running the crappy Lucas coil _ you know...
A regular coil will work in there with a positive ground car, the negative side would simply go to the negative side of the battery, while the positive terminal would hook up to the distributor. (it's just reversed)
Use the push button on the starter solenoid to turn it over, but you still need the key on to energize the fuel pump.
Not exactly sure what you mean by the second vent and check valve on the fuel pump, but if it's what I think it is _ there is a check valve on the cover of the pump where the electrical terminal is.
That check valve isn't going to keep the car from running if it's missing or not.
As long as you can hear the pump clicking away, then it's pumping gas.

Have you actually checked the pump to see how much volume it's producing, although it sounds like you're getting lots of gas to the carbs ?

Ha Ha, so you were in Lake Cowichan _couldn't imagine living anywhere else. It's a bit smokey though, too many stupid people burning wet wood, people with respiratory problems are doubled here when compared to a town this size in B.C.
Westy ??? Westfalia Van ???

 

Everything you say checks out/understood. I'll try coil to battery, although I have to believe at this point that this is a fuel issue, rather than spark. When the engine does fire/start, throttle inputs have no effect. The exhaust wasn't plugged after all (vacuum cleaner test/good flow), so much for that idea. Something dumb/overlooked happening here, I've never had a gas powered anything that I couldn't get to run! Hopefully be laughing about it soon. I wish these carbs had accelerator pumps! Maybe some triple Webers would do the trick....
Hopefully,
Seann


Westfalia, yes...I've had a few, my wife and I had a wedding to go to in Victoria, so we took the train out and had a friend in Ladysmith pick us up to take us to your area to pick up van. We took it to the wedding and made a holiday out of driving it back home.

 

You're just overlooking/missing something.
This car is old technology, as you know, it doesn't get much simpler then this _ no electronics/or sensors to fail.
If you think it's fuel, then it's easy enough to check the pump on a bench. (you don't even have to to remove the pump, disconnect it at the glass sediment bowl and push on some of that surgical tubing to catch the fuel, this will also test the lines from the pump to see if they are blocked. There is also an internal filter with in the pump as well)
If the pump is working correctly, it should squirt fuel at least 2 to 3 feet.
With out checking I think the pump puts out about 2 to 4 PSI _ all it has to do is keep the float bowls full.
Too much pressure will overcome the float valves and it will flood.

If you think it's still a fuel problem, then it's a process of elimination, but you know this.

My 340 sat for 8 years with old fuel in the tank, with a faulty pump that barely worked. (gummed up)
I got the pistons unstuck in the carbs and cleaned up the float bowls and valves.
Just quickly cleaned the points and I assumed that the condenser was OK.
Which reminds me, you should replace the condenser if you haven't already done so.
As you know if the condenser is faulty, the points will burn almost instantaneously and the car will miss fire almost right away.
It did start (poorly) and because of the old fuel, would only run at fast idle with the choke on.

The carbs are designed to operate with out an accelerator pump, so having one wouldn't' cure the starting issue.

Look at this logically and if you think it's a fuel problem, you have to remove all doubt that it is _ and then move on.

I don't mean to talk down to you, but this is what trouble shooting is all about, you're missing something very obvious, so that's what I'm going over, the obvious stuff.

The English have had SU crabs for around 100 years _ simple and reliable _ only one main jet to worry about.
And in a way they do have an accelerator pump. The damper pistons move slightly faster when the butterfly valve is opened by the accelerator peddle.
The plunger on the pin that goes inside the damper tube is not "hard" fixed to the pin. This allows a bit more gas to enter the engine when the accelerator pedal is stopped on, after which the piston is then slowed by the oil in the damper tube.

Here's a pretty good video on what a healthy pump should sound like _ go to the end.

 

Nothing wrong with this fuel pump, already tested it with length of hose (it's like watching a horse)...I have a new theory, but first I'll tell you that I have saved many dead, forgotten, as some have described "unrestorable" projects
from the scrap heap, so don't worry about the talking down thing, doesn't bother me coming from someone who knows there stuff. OK, so back to basics, got spark, fuel (at the carbs at least), exhaust can get out, and compression (5 out of 6), which takes me to my theory. I did the comp check yesterday, #s 1-5 had 125, #6 had 25. Wet checked #6, no difference. When I got this basket job, it came with a rebuilt engine (no history/paperwork). I wanted to use the original #s matching block and trans, and opted to use the rebuilt head (no #s), as the original needs everything. The intake manifold was on the rebuilt head, and I'm thinking now that that an obstruction (rag/mouse?) could be in blocking the intake ports, maybe hanging up that #6 intake valve that is showing low compression. Sounds a bit far fetched maybe, but would explain a couple of things. I normally wouldn't trust an unknown, but for some reason I didn't pull that manifold to check. I'll let you know...
Seann

 

If you hadn't touched the engine, pull the valve covers and check the position of the cam shafts. There is a tool to line them up, but for now you can simply "eye-ball them up.
I can take some photos of mine so you can compare as I will be removing the covers for polishing.
When doing a compression test, make sure the butterfly valves are fully open.
I don't know what compression of pistons they have in there, but 125 seam a bit low and of course 25 is just terrible.
Did you try and connect the coil to a steady 12 volt source ?

 

I completely rebuilt the original engine (short block), polished crank, rings, brgs, etc...cams are set by the book, with the holders (notches up). Took intake manifold off this morning...all clear. Back to the drawing board, again.

 

Sounds like the cam shafts are correct.
Left and right, are they correct ?
There is only one way they can go, the REV counter is on the left side of the engine, facing front. (nearest the battery)
What has me worried is the low compression on #6.
A compression reading that low means a bent valve _ I can't think of anything else that would cause a reading that low.
Even my old Bentley with all the top rings broken still had 60 psi.

But if it was bent you should be able to hear it in the exhaust when it's turned over.

Maybe the seats/valves weren't cut right ???
It would be pretty hard for a machine shop to screw up like that ???

Don't know what else to suggest.
It's also hard to say at this point if the starting problem is related to the low compression on #6.

I'll take some photos anyway, but if the cam marks have been lined up, you should be good to go.
But I will post pictures just to be sure.

EDIT:
Just thought of something, no valve clearance on #6 would account for a low compression reading ???

 

Time for a leak-down test, to see where the compression is leaking out. You don't need a "real" tester (if you do not have one) just connect a air line to the s-plug hole and listen/feel for escaping air. Be sure to "lock" the crank in a position that has both valves in the closed position.
If it has a bent valve, I would expect to see more valve clearance ( if it was set correctly when rebuilt). It is fairly easy to bend a valve on these motors since the int/exh.valves can hit each other if the cams are turned or installed incorrectly, or hit the pistons if the crank is not in the correct position when installing the head.

 

Thanks, but way ahead of you...leak down test showed exhaust valve #6, so I pulled head yesterday, sure enough it was bent. Stripped the head (should have done that in the first place with unknown builder), checked all other valves in the lathe, then lapped them all in, swapping out the bent one. Have to shuffle a few shims to get the lash on #6 where I want it, then put it back together. Was hoping it was going to be an intake that was bent, maybe to explain some of the backfiring/no start issues. Cams and distributor were set perfectly (not 180 out), so I may still have whatever my fuel/ignition? issues are when trying to fire it up again. They were resistor type plugs that were in it, so I'll change those. The adventure continues...
Thanks all,
Seann

 

One other thing, does a 3.8 or 4.2 head fit on these 3.4 blocks, and if so are the combustion chambers in the head bigger, (to give lower compression readings)?

 

Can't really help you with your "head" questions, but what brand of resistor plugs were they ?
Have you checked the resistance of your spark plug wires, are they solid or the resistor type ?
Old resistor wires fail and an old ignition system will have trouble providing a spark under engine running conditions.
You may get a good spark when testing outside the combustion chamber, but not under normal operating and cold start conditions.

Are you using the original coil and is it a Lucas coil _ you never did answer ?

The only Lucas coil I ever had was aluminum.
What can, but not necessarily, happen is the aluminum expands and contracts more then a steel coil _ this can break the seal on the coil and allow for the entry of moisture.
Once contaminated, any moisture or condensation can erode the varnish on the wires and cause intermittent shorts.

The Lucas coil I had, worked fine and then it didn't _ you would have a good spark and then nothing at all.
The car would start and run normally and then minutes or hours later it wouldn't.

Take all this into account and add the age of an old coil (30,40 or 50 years old) and you get problems.

If your still getting miss firing, my money is still on the ignition system as the problem.

I've been at it for 35 years, mainly with British cars, SU's and Zenith Stromberg's (TR7).
It's very rarely a fuel problem.

 

Brand new Accel 7mm solid wires, coil is a Bosch (medium blue case, pos marked 15, neg marked 1, will search to see if it has an internal resistor or not.There was an aluminum original looking Lucas coil in the boxes, but didn't work, original wires were junk. Plugs were NGK BPR5ES. Finished putting head back together today, will re-install tomorrow. Noticed I hadn't attached ground strap (bell housing to chassis). I'm going to cc the 2 heads just for my own curiosity. Also made up a new ground wires for inside distributor, looked a little ratty. Agreed on the electrics, my first car was a '67 Midget (in '72)... worked on lots of British stuff too since then, mine and others. That's why we drive my wifes '91 Miata everywhere now (350,000 kms & counting)!
This Jag came as a trade for our '89 28' Glendale motorhome that was getting a little long in the tooth, so I jumped on it. It's turned out to be a good thing that I enjoy fixing stuff, and I'm pretty patient. Some of my projects over the years just come to me (really rough ones are donated)...once people find out you do this kind of work, you become a "target", good or bad. Never had a car with wire wheels before though, but sure wished my '62 white MGA that I had in high school had them!
Thanks,
Seann