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MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler 1955 - 1967

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  #1  
Old 10-19-2011, 01:01 PM
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Default Jaguar MKII Engine swap

Hi
I introduce my project, I have an old jaguar mk2 (in reality her sister the little Daimler 250 V8) and I wanted to restore it. Nothing extraordinary, I have all what I need and i know this car. But I don't want to mount original engine for following reason: the gearbox is weak, I have to restore all the motor and the fuel become really expensive today (the small V8 is very greedy).
So to have the comfort of a modern car I want to swap this motor . I thought about the ideal engine to power my car : I have to put propulsion engine with about 200HP and I would like found automatic gearbox. Finaly I think the jaguar's V6 of 3L will be the best: i will preserved the Daimler differential gear and I just will adapt shaft.
I really never work on new engine, so I have many question before bought crashed jaguar s or x type with good mechanical part.
In my mind I just have to move the engine with all accessories, I just have to weld brackets but some friends warned me about the difficulties to adapt fuel injectors or electronic box... all is manage by electronic captor so if I don't connect all (help system of braking or steering...) I will have engine error? Will it start again? Can I and should I keep the computer? The engine will not be too big?
Maybe a sierra Cosworth will be more easy to swap?

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

I don't want to talking about the ethics of this swap.
I don't speak English very well and I 'm sorry for this.
Thank for reading and helping
regards
Evrard36
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2011, 05:12 PM
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Before you rush off and buy an engine and gearbox, measure up the dimensions of the Daimler V8 and gearbox combination very carefully, because the body pressings which cover the bellhousing and gearbox are much smaller in the Daimler V8, than the Jaguar equivalent car (Mark 2 or 240/340) So if you want to fit a Jaguar XK six cylinder engine you will need to cut away the existing metal and weld in new panels large enough to take the XK engine/gearbox combination. You would probably be better off with another V8 or a V6, like a Ford engine.

Of course if the new engine is fuel injected and ECU controlled, you will have to find places for the ECU and the ancillary parts. Not impossible, but must be factored in. Welding brackets for any other engine than the Daimler V8 is inevitable, but looking at your body shell, you have lots of welding to do anyway !!

Good luck with your endeavours.
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2011, 01:34 AM
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Default Modern Power and reliability...

I have a Jaguar 3.8s which I am changing the motor and transimssion to a modern General Motors 5.3 liter fuel injected V8. The motor has an upgraded computer, a mild performance cam, stainless steel headers and the matching auto transmission that is beefed up to handle the 450-460 horsepower. The all aluminum block and aluminum head GM LS1 is a bullet proof motor that was found in the corvette, camaro, and firebirds and is lighter than the factory Jaguar in-line 6. By using the 5.3 liter rather than the newer 6 + liter version along with the computer upgrades good gas mileage around 25 can still be achieved.

I think this is a great engine swap as it is very powerful, reliable, inexpensive for parts/repairs, with a ton of performance options that can enable reliable power from 400 to 600+ horsepower on street gas. I hope to have this project completed by January and will post pictures. I cannot wait to see how well it holds it own against modern performance sedans like the BMW M5 which will be heavier.
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Jaguar MKII Engine swap-new_engine1.jpg   Jaguar MKII Engine swap-new_engine2.jpg  
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Primaz
1965 Jaguar 3.8S (under construction - highlights: engine will be a General Motors LS 1 V8, full coil over & suspension upgrades, Vanden Plas leather electric seats).

Other cars - Famous Primadonna Z car with 9 point cage, street racer with 345 tires in rear 285 tires in the front, 1972 Datsun 240Z fully restored stock on the outside with many peformance modifications.

Last edited by primaz; 11-03-2011 at 01:42 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:03 AM
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hello
I am very interested in the progress of your project and looks forward to all the photos. I am looking first an relatively inexpensive engine instead of powerful. I currently have a plan to get a v8 DuroTec from an s-type. Do you have any problems to put the engine? I imagine you have updated brakes and suspensions?
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evrard36 View Post
hello
I am very interested in the progress of your project and looks forward to all the photos. I am looking first an relatively inexpensive engine instead of powerful. I currently have a plan to get a v8 DuroTec from an s-type. Do you have any problems to put the engine? I imagine you have updated brakes and suspensions?
I do not know your budget but I purchased my LS1 GM motor with matching transmission from Sand and Street Performance (SSP) out of Arizona that specializes in custom computer harness's programed to meet your engine swap and their price for a refreshed motor/trans, that is with new pistons/rings, headgasget, beefed up trans was about the same as or even less than what others were selling a used motor on E-bay about $4K so I opted to upgrade their base model up by getting a performance cam, headers, improved stall and other mods that increased about $1500 more which is still very inexpensive for a setup that will crank out 450 HP and still get 25 MPH. I think the GM LS1 is a great motor/trans as it is all aluminum block and heads which will decrease the weight compared to a stock Jag motor. I have seen used motors with trans on Ebay from $3-4K.

A duratech is basically a Ford V6 that Jag improved with variable timing but it is not very powerful as even the supercharged version only gets barely 300 HP and the others are only 200 HP. I would think the cost of one is not much different than a stock LS1 yet a stock LS1 is not only very light but will have stock 300-350 HP for likely the cost. I think doing so much work for an engine swamp and not really gaining much performance does not seem like as good compared to using an LS1?

Brakes on my 3.8s were already disc all around but we are changing the front to 4 piston Wilwood vented rotors and changing all lines to braided with new pads. suspension will be upgraded adjustable coil over shocks with new bushings, etc. so we can tailor the height, etc. for improved handling. With minor mods and NO flares just the stock body using custom off set wheels a 3.8s will be able to fit 17" x 8.5" rims with 245 40 series tires with no issues at all. I searched the web for days and found nobody running anything close to that width which was surprising that nobody either knows about nor spent the extra money for custom off set rims? I will post pics with details on how we got them to clear with no rubbing etc. as it really was not a big deal but going from a tiny 185 to a 245 is huge for handling! It may be possible to go to a 255 but that would be really pushing it and I did not want to risk rubbing.
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1965 Jaguar 3.8S (under construction - highlights: engine will be a General Motors LS 1 V8, full coil over & suspension upgrades, Vanden Plas leather electric seats).

Other cars - Famous Primadonna Z car with 9 point cage, street racer with 345 tires in rear 285 tires in the front, 1972 Datsun 240Z fully restored stock on the outside with many peformance modifications.
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  #6  
Old 11-11-2011, 03:09 AM
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this kind of engine is not for me; i don't know the price of fuel in America but i can't mount an engine who burn betwen 17 and 22L for 100km, mybe more when it was upgrade. Futhermore this engine is not usual in france.
I found factory who modernise mk2 with the V8 from durotec (Beacham). But if i can enter it into mk2's body, with the S-type electric network, can i easly start it again without error? many sensor will not be connect like brake or driving assistance.
have you some picture of body amenagement you engage to be able to fitted your motor? What have you doing to not heating to much? the mk2 body is a real jail of heat.
I know your s-type have running gear better than the mk2, do you think aptation on mk2 is possible?
the original is rigid and handling is altered, so with more powerful engine it could be a real nightmare

Last edited by evrard36; 11-11-2011 at 07:02 AM.
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  #7  
Old 11-12-2011, 01:27 AM
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First of all 25 mpg equals 9.4 liters per 100 Kilometers not 17 to 21. Thus a General Motors LS1 would get pretty decent mileage even when upgrade a bit in horsepower as I have done.

In a quick search I saw that in 2008 General Motors sold 114,000 cars in France. The LS1 aluminum block and aluminum head engine is very common as it is used in the Corvette, GTO, Camaro, Firebird, Sierra SUV's, GMC trucks to name some of the more common models so I would think if you look there has to be repair shops around if they sell around 115,000 cars/truck in France each year? Also most kit car and performance shops use the LS1 so the additional kit car market in France would also use this motor setup. The reason why is that hundreds of people also sell computer and wiring harness set ups that they will program to your custom needs. Thus any sensors not being used, etc. your tire size, gear ratio, etc. can be programmed for you so the motor/tranny can be a drop in with no headaches dealing with the computer tuning.

Beecham makes great quality conversions that are at show quality but they have a price tag as those MKII v8 cars completely done are around $100,000 US in price tag but they are goreous with modern Jag electric seats, everything new with new Jaguar v8, etc.

As far as heat yes the 3.8s and MKII are very close to the same chasis, etc. but heat is not really an issue if you get the right radiator setup. Being one into high performance cars with cars cranking out very high horsepower it just takes a racing radiator which is cheap to get custom made. For the Jaguar just get a custom racing aluminum radiator with a much more dense fins per square inch and more like 4-6 rows with a fan to pull the air and one to pull the air thru. In the United States that would only cost about $4-600 dollars.

The 3.8s has independant rear suspension so that helps but there is no problem with a v8 in either a 3.8s or a MKII. Handling can easily be upgraded yet very few seem do much to these cars. For starts on my 3.8s we took the tool to measure what offsets can be used to increase the wheel rim diameter. On the 3.8s with no flares at all so no combs fenders etc. the stock body can handle a 17" by 8.5" rim and if you want all four rims to have the same tires so you can rotate them a 245 x 40 x17" tires are a perfect set up; if you want to push it to the max you might be able to push the rears to 255? This will make a significant increase in your handling compared to those tiny narrow stock 185 tires.
Next what I am doing is upgrading all four corners to adjustable threaded coil over shocks so we can lower the car by adjusting the spring perch to lower the car yet the spring is full height. Also we are putting new bushings, etc. but we are just going with stock rubber rather than urothane so the ride would not be too stiff. The shocks are also adjustable so it can be easily and quickly set to stiffer modes if we are going to race the car.

We are upgrading the craddle which holds the rear end and brakes to handle the torque increase and we also strengthened the control arms to handle the torque; these are simple welding upgrades to the stock parts. The cradle has new square steel bracing welded to increase the strength and the control arms have about 4-5 metal plates welded to do the same enable them to handle increased horsepower.

Basically I am building my version of a Beecham Jaguar yet doing it for a fraction of the cost and using a higher horsepower more reliable GM V8 that has a lower maintenance cost as most LS1 motors with good maintenance can get over 200,000 miles without a problem.

I still am a couple months aways from completion and will post more pics later but I am taking pictures thru this process....
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1965 Jaguar 3.8S (under construction - highlights: engine will be a General Motors LS 1 V8, full coil over & suspension upgrades, Vanden Plas leather electric seats).

Other cars - Famous Primadonna Z car with 9 point cage, street racer with 345 tires in rear 285 tires in the front, 1972 Datsun 240Z fully restored stock on the outside with many peformance modifications.
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2011, 06:14 AM
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You're probably right, i continue gathering engine's informations. Have you enlarges the bonnet? the front is realy narrow, and to small to put v8. mybe in my case a little V6 3L will be better..

I slowly started bodywork, i want to refine the mk2's drawing by remove bumper (front and rear), erasing all chromiums..
Click the image to open in full size.
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2011, 05:52 PM
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Cool No bonnet changes needed for a V8

Quote:
Originally Posted by evrard36 View Post
You're probably right, i continue gathering engine's informations. Have you enlarges the bonnet? the front is realy narrow, and to small to put v8. mybe in my case a little V6 3L will be better..

I slowly started bodywork, i want to refine the mk2's drawing by remove bumper (front and rear), erasing all chromiums..
Click the image to open in full size.
It might look narrow but the bonnet/hood does not need any modifications at all with a V8. My car originally had a Chevy 350 V8 with the stock hood. Also the Beacham Jaguar MKII also uses a V8 with a stock hood. It is a bit tight for the exhaust but it is not an issue.

We should be moving along with the engine mount later this month and I will post pictures to show you that it will easily fit a V8 with no changes at all to your stock hood.

Again my opinion is a V8 is the right way to go as it will provide enough horsepower to be just as fast as the current Eurocar 4-door performance sedans like a BMW M5, Mercedes 430, Audi A8, etc. If you use a more modern V8 they will be lighter than the stock straight 6 and provide better fuel efficiency as well.

In Europe there is a euro versoin of the Kit car magazine which is one publication where you will find many local shops that specialize in engine swaps if you need assistance. Also I do know there are many performance shops in your area that can help if you need it. It really is not that hard as a decent repair shop can make the swap.

To make it easy regardless of the engine find a good source that can provide all of the computer modifications so it is just a drop in and drive situation so they do not need to deal with tuning, etc.. For the General Motors V8's I recommend Sand and Street Performance Wiring as they will provide the computer/harness all preset for your exact application (you tell them the wheels your are using the motor,trans, rear end ratio, etc. and it will be pre-programmed) They also provide a great price for the motor/trans and you might ask as they might ship to France?

Then any good exhaust shop can fabricate the exhaust pipes and there are many shops that will make a custom drive shaft and you are done.

We are hoping to get the Jag ready for painting the undercarriage in January so we hope to have pics to post as the engine has to be mounted temporarily to ensure we have all things ready as well as the interior welding for the new seats before the car can go to the body shop for the undercarriage painting, etc.

I am impressed at how far you are stripping the car, that is a large amount of work but I am sure you will be so happy when it is done! I was fortunate to find a 3.8s that does not need any real body work. You might also want to do the same thing I am doing to prevent rust which is I am stripping the entire bottom undercarriage to bare metal then painting the Por-15 metal prep paint then their chasis black paint. That will ensure your Jaguar will never rust again. If your car has rust I recommend to get it bead blasted to take out every minute rust so you can repair it properly then apply the Por-15. We are using that also on all the inner wheel wells and engine compartment.
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Primaz
1965 Jaguar 3.8S (under construction - highlights: engine will be a General Motors LS 1 V8, full coil over & suspension upgrades, Vanden Plas leather electric seats).

Other cars - Famous Primadonna Z car with 9 point cage, street racer with 345 tires in rear 285 tires in the front, 1972 Datsun 240Z fully restored stock on the outside with many peformance modifications.

Last edited by primaz; 12-04-2011 at 05:59 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2011, 03:07 PM
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Hi
i am allso doing a mk2, and hope to put in a 4.2 v8 from from stype jag 2002,
with all the running gear,
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  #11  
Old 12-06-2011, 02:02 AM
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I would recommend to use the 4.2 supercharged version as it has a decent 400 HP the other non supercharged versions are only up to 300 HP. This is the same motor used in the Beacham MK II http://www.beacham-jaguar.co.nz/MARQ...ACHAM+MK2.html
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Primaz
1965 Jaguar 3.8S (under construction - highlights: engine will be a General Motors LS 1 V8, full coil over & suspension upgrades, Vanden Plas leather electric seats).

Other cars - Famous Primadonna Z car with 9 point cage, street racer with 345 tires in rear 285 tires in the front, 1972 Datsun 240Z fully restored stock on the outside with many peformance modifications.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:07 PM
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Hi
i run a 4.2 now in the xk, and its ok for what i need,
in the beachem,they have used the 4.0 supercharged,
dont think they have done a 4.2 v8 yet,
and its down to cost,as i am going to buy a good car and strip it,
if i can find a good 4.2 supercharger with low miles for not alot of money that would be good,
thanks,
Dave

Last edited by DaimlerMK2; 12-06-2011 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 12-08-2011, 01:11 AM
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Dave,

I hope you post some pics as I'd love to see your car when it is done.
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Primaz
1965 Jaguar 3.8S (under construction - highlights: engine will be a General Motors LS 1 V8, full coil over & suspension upgrades, Vanden Plas leather electric seats).

Other cars - Famous Primadonna Z car with 9 point cage, street racer with 345 tires in rear 285 tires in the front, 1972 Datsun 240Z fully restored stock on the outside with many peformance modifications.

Last edited by primaz; 12-08-2011 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:15 AM
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wel its going to take some time,and i will put some pics up,
just got to finish the stripping,and then make a spit roast so i can spin the shell,to do some work on the bottom,
wud like to c some of yours,
Dave,
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  #15  
Old 12-26-2011, 09:28 PM
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This brings tears to my eyes, I just went through all kinds of welding to get my MK2 from the dumpster...
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Jaguar MKII Engine swap-dsc01252.jpg   Jaguar MKII Engine swap-dsc01253.jpg   Jaguar MKII Engine swap-dsc01269.jpg   Jaguar MKII Engine swap-dsc01248.jpg  
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  #16  
Old 12-30-2011, 10:06 PM
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Default Jag Mk2 and Upgrades

Hello to all,
First time here, came across this site and was very interested. I am in the process of building a Mk2 using the compnents from a 2005 xj350 so would like to swap ideas. The xj350 was 7 months old had 12,000kms before been written off so the interior is like new. So far the Mk2 has been completely stripped and POR 15 applied. I have cut the mounts for the new seats, centre console, steering wheel, front seat belts I plan to use a SB chev with a supra gearbox. Here are some pics.
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Jaguar MKII Engine swap-p9180014.jpg   Jaguar MKII Engine swap-p1010004.jpg  
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:18 AM
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Default me too!!

Hi All, I've just joined this forum because of this thread. I have a 1963 mk2 3.8 I've owned it for nearly 30 years. It's not been on the road since 1994. I'm planning to start a resto mod this year and have been looking at various engine transplant options.

Primaz the LS1 is a perfect choice. Are you upgrading axle shafts for the increase in power? As others have said, I would love to see pics of your car.

I have thought about the xjr 6 superchared engine, to keep it all jaguar. Not that I'm a purist in anyway way. In the UK you could pick a 90's example up for around for 1500 to 2000K, that's for the whole car, so you would have all the parts.

There was a swedish company in the 90's fitting V12's, but i think they are no longer around.

Can't wait to hear a report on your first road test Primaz.
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Old 12-31-2011, 12:30 PM
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wow lots of us doing the same thing now,
i think i am going to get a stype,4.2, as i run am 4.2 xk now,and find it ok for me,
i plan to use all the car, ie,front and rear running gear,and seats and all that
just got to finish stripping body,then get the stype,
Dave,
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennd View Post
Hello to all,
First time here, came across this site and was very interested. I am in the process of building a Mk2 using the compnents from a 2005 xj350 so would like to swap ideas. The xj350 was 7 months old had 12,000kms before been written off so the interior is like new. So far the Mk2 has been completely stripped and POR 15 applied. I have cut the mounts for the new seats, centre console, steering wheel, front seat belts I plan to use a SB chev with a supra gearbox. Here are some pics.
Glenn, I tried to reply to your private message twice but you are not set up to recieve them yet?

Anyway, I would love to share ideas and see more of your car! I too am mounting newer Jag Vaden Plas leather seats and when we get to the mounts I will post them, we have a clear idea to do the mount and make it look clean and factory looking.

I you have not already purchased the SB 350 I would recommend a newer LS GM motor for reduced weight, more horsepower, reliability and fuel economy. If you want more information about my power plant and costs send me an e-mail or message me when your account is up 100%
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Primaz
1965 Jaguar 3.8S (under construction - highlights: engine will be a General Motors LS 1 V8, full coil over & suspension upgrades, Vanden Plas leather electric seats).

Other cars - Famous Primadonna Z car with 9 point cage, street racer with 345 tires in rear 285 tires in the front, 1972 Datsun 240Z fully restored stock on the outside with many peformance modifications.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcat 3.8 View Post
Hi All, I've just joined this forum because of this thread. I have a 1963 mk2 3.8 I've owned it for nearly 30 years. It's not been on the road since 1994. I'm planning to start a resto mod this year and have been looking at various engine transplant options.

Primaz the LS1 is a perfect choice. Are you upgrading axle shafts for the increase in power? As others have said, I would love to see pics of your car.

I have thought about the xjr 6 superchared engine, to keep it all jaguar. Not that I'm a purist in anyway way. In the UK you could pick a 90's example up for around for 1500 to 2000K, that's for the whole car, so you would have all the parts.

There was a swedish company in the 90's fitting V12's, but i think they are no longer around.

Can't wait to hear a report on your first road test Primaz.
I really spent a lot of time researching the rear end and was pleasantly surprised to find out that there is so much performance bolt on options for our rear ends! thanks to the huge performance Cobra market using our rear ends! The key must buy is the "Watts Linkage" that I posted previously. That kit from: Nick Acton
Acton Custom Enterprises, LLC.
33 Wildwood Drive
Holderness, NH 03245
(603) 279-0241 Shop

will esnure that the hub carrier can take the extra horsepower and torque. I think I am likely to upgrade the "dog bone" stock lower control arm. That would be the only other part really to me that would be good to upgrade for the stock suspension to handle a lot of HP and torque. The Cobra owners go way crazy with other modifications but I think those are more for show and crazy horsepower closer to 1000HP which I do not see a real justification for a mere 400-600 HP powerplant. Those two parts would be the only ones needed so you can keep the rest of the rear suspension stock basically. I added adjustable coil overs to the stock rear setup and will be doing the same for the front. I think these are a lot easier than trying to transplant an entirely different suspension and the Cobra owners see modifying the stock Jaguar independant suspension as being the best set up so I think that speaks miles.

I want my car to look basically stock but think an LS motor is better than a jag v8 or v12 as the reliability, availability of performance parts, fuel economy, horsepower all at a lower price make it a better powerplant in my opinion. I know the reasoning to keep a restomod all the same original brand as I have done that on a couple of my Datsun's including one still in progress but it is way, way, way more expensive (to get a Datsun motor to get up to say 600-700 HP at the rear wheels reliable for street use will be 30-50K versus 10K for a GM and not sure it was really beneficial and in a Jaguar I think the reliability and cost will push it towards a GM at least for me.

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Primaz
1965 Jaguar 3.8S (under construction - highlights: engine will be a General Motors LS 1 V8, full coil over & suspension upgrades, Vanden Plas leather electric seats).

Other cars - Famous Primadonna Z car with 9 point cage, street racer with 345 tires in rear 285 tires in the front, 1972 Datsun 240Z fully restored stock on the outside with many peformance modifications.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:53 PM
 
 
 
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