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  #1  
Old 04-07-2010, 07:26 PM
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Default Air con pipe s type fixed metal pipe easy fix

i decided to take another look at my air con leaking. The fin little silver pipe was leaking on the drivers side under the 3 larger air con pipes.

As the new pipe is 50 plus second hand and its hard to fit i decided to try fix the old pipe.

Metal gule was fine but just cracked when running the car and leaked out again.

so i then tryed cutting the pipe at 2 ends where i could get to with a saw blade attached to a file with tape and slowly cutting it by hand (only took 5-10 mins for both parts the bottom end i removed the joining part for easyer access just 1 bolt on the pipe join and 1 on the bracket holding it to the side.

I then went and got some 10mm fuel pipe from moter save 5.50 with 2 jubilee clips.

I then filed the edges i had cut on the metal pipe on the car to get rid of any sharp enges and pushed the rubber pipe onto each end of the metal pipes.

Got the clips real tight and used the air compressor, an eazy air con refill hose from halfords and an air compressor with a blower end (just hold it to the air con hose end where the can goes on and it will fill up with air fine from the low pressure port underneath on the compressor with a black cap.

You may wonder why i used just air to fill it i know it will not work but i did it to test for leaks rather than wasting tins of gas at 20 a time.

You may need to unclip the wires from the compressor and put a 12v battery to the wires to engage the clutch manually before filling with air con gas as the car has a safty cut off switch and will not fill properly without the compressor engaged.

When the pressure stayed the same with no leaks i took the air out by pressing the air con fill port with a screw driver till it was empty and refilled with a halfords tin of eazy refill gas.

Air con is now working going nice and cold but i do feel it could do with more gas and would like anyone to tell me how much gas the car should have from empty.

My air con also had a tin of air con oil to keep the compressor in good condition.

I hear this metal pipe leaks on alot of these cars and just wanted to tell people an easy cheap fix for it.


Any help on how much gas the car should have will be a real help.

Sorry for spelling/grammer no good at it just trying to help people as they have me.

Thank you
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:31 AM
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Wow, lots of BAD info here!

First of all, compressed air and r134a is a GREAT way to make a bomb! Pressurizing a system with ANY trace ammounts of r-134a makes a very combustible mixture!

Secondly, fuel hose is NOT a replacement for refrigerant lines. Lines need to be re-enforced to transport refrigerant! The refrigerant will simply leak right through those couplings.

Thirdly, there are numerous reasons as to why your system may not be blowing cold enough air. One being that there is still a leak and two being that you used those cheap "top-off" cans to fill your system (and probably damaged your compressor by ignoring the low pressure cut-off, it is there for a reason).

So now you have a system that is: contaminated with air, debris, water; leaking through your homemade couplings; and probably has compressor damage! I bet the $50 for the correct line is looking pretty good at this point.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:56 AM
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It's worth mentioning, too, that R134a is poisonous. Not DIY without really knowing what you're doing.
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:56 AM
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Well im not saying it will last for ever but i do not see why it wont last some time its pipe that takes upto 240psi and can stand petrol so it will not distroy easy.

I keep presure testing it and it does not seem to have any leaks as yet



Also whats wrong with the tins there just gas in the tin to do yourself i took it to quickfit and they seemed usless at doing it with no interest at all.

Air con is now working fine just wanted to know if anyone knows the exeact levels of gas the car should have.



I will post in time to let people know how long its lasting and how welll


Iv seen posts of many people using this gas and its worked perfectly as long as your not stupid and just keep filling and filling it
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jagv8 View Post
It's worth mentioning, too, that R134a is poisonous. Not DIY without really knowing what you're doing.

i know this it should be done with goggles and gloves for safty and it wont hurt you unless you plan on sucking it up:P
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:10 AM
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Wow, lots of BAD info here!

First of all, compressed air and r134a is a GREAT way to make a bomb! Pressurizing a system with ANY trace ammounts of r-134a makes a very combustible mixture!

Secondly, fuel hose is NOT a replacement for refrigerant lines. Lines need to be re-enforced to transport refrigerant! The refrigerant will simply leak right through those couplings.

Thirdly, there are numerous reasons as to why your system may not be blowing cold enough air. One being that there is still a leak and two being that you used those cheap "top-off" cans to fill your system (and probably damaged your compressor by ignoring the low pressure cut-off, it is there for a reason).

So now you have a system that is: contaminated with air, debris, water; leaking through your homemade couplings; and probably has compressor damage! I bet the $50 for the correct line is looking pretty good at this point.
Agree totally.....It's fixes like his that makes buying a used car REAL DIFFICULT! Thank goodness when it is sold on it will be in the UK....
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:29 AM
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Enjoy your A/C until that line blows off, and loses the charge. Btw your "240psi" line is burst tested at that. Find me a fuel injection system that runs at over 60 psi...

From my quick research... With R134a it's common to see high side pressure between 2.2 and 2.5 times ambient temperature.

Therefore, you're looking at COMMON pressures at 80 degrees f of 200 psi, and more as temperature rises.

The ONLY way to do the A/C right. Is to replace the line in question with the proper high pressure line. Then have the charge evacuated and the system held at a vacuum for at least 30 mins to boil out all the moisture, and then properly charged. There is nothing wrong with the "top off" cans, except for the fact that they are a band aid - usually to slow leaks. A properly sealed and charged system has no way to "lose" refrigerant. An A/C system should not need "topping off".

This whatever works engineering is the reason that R-12 which is a MUCH better refrigerant, is now illegal to buy without a license. Cause of the hacks that will purge a system with a "screwdriver on the low pressure port"..

You remind me of a guy who went to check if there was sediment at the bottom of his gas tank when he had the fuel pump out.. He couldn't see so he used a lighter.


George
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ln69bt View Post
Well im not saying it will last for ever but i do not see why it wont last some time its pipe that takes upto 240psi and can stand petrol so it will not distroy easy.

I keep presure testing it and it does not seem to have any leaks as yet



Also whats wrong with the tins there just gas in the tin to do yourself i took it to quickfit and they seemed usless at doing it with no interest at all.

Air con is now working fine just wanted to know if anyone knows the exeact levels of gas the car should have.



I will post in time to let people know how long its lasting and how welll


Iv seen posts of many people using this gas and its worked perfectly as long as your not stupid and just keep filling and filling it
Ok, look. It doesn't matter if it is "holding pressure" or not. It IS and will continue to leak. Manufactures don't use expensive crimped connections and barrier type hoses for the fun of it. I haven't replaced countless barrier hoses on r12 to r134a conversions for the practice. If the factory could set up the ac system like a power steering system and use crimped fittings on the high pressure and fuel hose and hose clamps on the low side, they would, but the pressure is the least of your worries. Refrigerant can and WILL seep through the hose. Will you be able to see it? No. But it is seeping through.

And it is no surprise that fuel line can withstand fuel. But on the corrosive scale, fuel is not that bad of a chemical. R134a is a LOT more corrosive than fuel with all the crap you have in the system.

What's wrong with the tins is MANY things. First of all the system has to be operating to use them. Thats ok, if you are toping the system of like they were designed for. NOT ok if you have just opened the system and now have to bypass the low-pressure switch and force the compressor to run dry. Secondly, ANY time the system goes dry or ANY time any component is removed, the system need to be put under a vacuum to remove air and moisture. Not only did you remove components but you pressurized the system with compressed air! Not only is that full of water but think about it, since you just pushed the schradder valve to remove the air, the internal system is NOT free of air, it is FULL of air and is just pressurized to atmospheric pressure (hence the vacuum that must be pulled on the system). Thirdly, 90% of the people that use those cans have no idea what they are doing! If they did, the would never touch those things unless it was a last case scenario! Tell me, does the can say to tilt the can back and forth? If it does, they are basically tell you to SLOWLY kill your compressor!

If and when your system goes out, I hope you don't have stringent laws like the US because you know have over $1000 worth of repairs if they do it the right way! Most shops won't touch your car when they see how contaminated the system is.

And the exact level of gas isn't as important as the system pressures. What are they at? That will tell you the refrigerant level
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:28 PM
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No air con has nothing to do with the law hear.

I would like to add before forcing my compressor on i put 2oz of compressor oil into it so it would not do the damage you are saying.

I have a car thats a nice car and was leaking ac gas the cost of a proper fix is not worth the value of the car this was just a cheap idea and seen as the air con did not workn anyway i have nothing to loose.

All i can say is you seemed to be getting all worked up about an idea

at the moment air con is still working fine and pressure tested at the same pressure as 4 days ago will it last forever i have no idea it might be gone in a week but i had no air con before if it brakes i have the same again.

I got the advice to make the compressor run off someone that regases cars for a living its done nothing to mine so it seems to be fine.

I will let people know in time the results and i would like to say i took my car to quick fit they are ment to do all that stuff you mentioned clean it out vacume it out did not of that just tryed to fill it so there not any better than a diy can if you ask me

i watched the bloke do it.

Thanks
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:29 PM
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Thanks for the help everyone and im not looking for truble just giving ideas.

I will text the pressure tomorrow let you know the reading see if you could help me out getting the right pressures

thanks
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ln69bt View Post
No air con has nothing to do with the law hear.

I would like to add before forcing my compressor on i put 2oz of compressor oil into it so it would not do the damage you are saying.

I have a car thats a nice car and was leaking ac gas the cost of a proper fix is not worth the value of the car this was just a cheap idea and seen as the air con did not workn anyway i have nothing to loose.

All i can say is you seemed to be getting all worked up about an idea

at the moment air con is still working fine and pressure tested at the same pressure as 4 days ago will it last forever i have no idea it might be gone in a week but i had no air con before if it brakes i have the same again.

I got the advice to make the compressor run off someone that regases cars for a living its done nothing to mine so it seems to be fine.

I will let people know in time the results and i would like to say i took my car to quick fit they are ment to do all that stuff you mentioned clean it out vacume it out did not of that just tryed to fill it so there not any better than a diy can if you ask me

i watched the bloke do it.

Thanks
Are there shops out there that use the cans, hell yea. But there are also shops out there that will use head gasket sealant in a bottle. They don't care because compressor failure is a long process. It isn't their problem if the compressor goes out in a year. Plus, a/c work is like smoke an mirrors to a customer. They see you hook up one machine and think you just top it off when, in reality, you reclaim, vacuum down, and fill. I hate doing a/c work because people think it's a bs job. They don't understand the cost that goes along with it. They see a guy wave a wand that beeps and then are told they have a leak, they don't believe it.

And I am getting worked up because it is diy'ers and ideas like this that lead to huge repair costs and making technicians look like a rip off! I get so sick of hearing about how Joe-schmo used a fuel line hack job to fix his a/c, and the problem is fixed. Or having a family member or friend get stuck with a car with dangerous and idiotic repairs like your car because the previous owner was too cheap to fix a $50 hose!

There is a reason shops: fill systems with nitrogen instead of compressed air, replace certified hoses with certified hoses, and use a recovery system to vacuum down the a/c system and believe me, they don't do it for the hell of it.
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:08 PM
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Thanks for that im not really looking for constant insults if the pipe want such a hard thing to replace i would happily do it.

Can you tell me can i buy rubber hose that would be better for the job can i ask what is in the rubber hoses that connect space heater to propane bottles via simple clips to regulators

I also tryed to buy correct pipe fitting and pipe but for some reason getting this size of air con pipe fittings seems inpossible in the uk. air con not being a big thing hear like the us

thanks
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:11 PM
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Also i do not see why its dangurous as the original pipe broke and leaked out the gas if this brakes it will do the same.

Alot of bigger system use alot more gas compaired to my car air con system

I would personally be just as worried about the 65 liters of fuel under the car on rubber hoses

If it is unsafe so was the pipe jaguar fitted as this happens on lots of these cars

thanks
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:12 AM
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Thanks for that im not really looking for constant insults if the pipe want such a hard thing to replace i would happily do it.

Can you tell me can i buy rubber hose that would be better for the job can i ask what is in the rubber hoses that connect space heater to propane bottles via simple clips to regulators

I also tryed to buy correct pipe fitting and pipe but for some reason getting this size of air con pipe fittings seems inpossible in the uk. air con not being a big thing hear like the us

thanks
The fittings are hard to get because they are special. They are a dual crimp style. Any hose specialist can get them and the correct barrier type hose.

And a space heater/propane hose is not the same as a refrigerant hose!? I don't get why you keep bringing up these random chemicals and using them as examples, there is a reason why you use a refrigerant hose for refrigerant, a fuel hose for fuel, a vacuum hose for vacuum etc...
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:19 AM
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Also i do not see why its dangurous as the original pipe broke and leaked out the gas if this brakes it will do the same.

Alot of bigger system use alot more gas compaired to my car air con system

I would personally be just as worried about the 65 liters of fuel under the car on rubber hoses

If it is unsafe so was the pipe jaguar fitted as this happens on lots of these cars

thanks
Ok, first of all, the fuel tank is vented, making it hard to combust. Your ac is in a sealed system making it EXTREMELY combustible!

Secondly, your fuel will not detiorate FUEL line. Ask anyone who has ran their car on alcohol just how "strong" fuel line is. It is not very strong at all. Can it resist fuel, sure! Refrigerant, NO!

I don't know how many times I can repeat it, hose manufactures DO NOT put an application name on each of their products for the hell of it!

I don't mean to "insult" you but this is common sense and these are VERY dangerous "tips" to give to people who do not know any better. I think you overread my first issue, you typed out the recipe for a bomb and then said it worked for you! Will it create a bomb everytime, no, but everytime you do it you are taking a very stupid risk!
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:33 AM
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ok thanks for that can i ask how it would make a bomb as im interested as to how it would egnite to blow up.

I was just asking about gas hose and i know its not ordanery pipe and wonderd how its made.

where you are the correct fittings for copper pipe what i wanted seem easy to get hear there is nothing like that and its very hard to find anything to do with air con i guess its because there weather is never good enougth hear to need it like you do.

I take it if this pipe leaked it could be dangerous so was the pipe on the car as it had done the same thing and i see many other have

thanks
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:42 AM
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And I am getting worked up because it is diy'ers and ideas like this that lead to huge repair costs and making technicians look like a rip off! I get so sick of hearing about how Joe-schmo used a fuel line hack job to fix his a/c, and the problem is fixed. Or having a family member or friend get stuck with a car with dangerous and idiotic repairs like your car because the previous owner was too cheap to fix a $50 hose!

There is a reason shops: fill systems with nitrogen instead of compressed air, replace certified hoses with certified hoses, and use a recovery system to vacuum down the a/c system and believe me, they don't do it for the hell of it.
Thank you rianbechtold: You just saved me a bunch of typing.....

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Old 04-09-2010, 07:35 AM
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What's with "copper pipe"? It's not suitable for a/c, is it?

Let's get this straight: you went ONE place where ONE person didn't apparently to YOU do the right thing so you decided to bodge a crappy fix. Was the place somewhere that would actually FIX an a/c pipe anyway? Actually.... I don't care. Please don't put any more "advice" about how to "fix" anything on here.
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:47 PM
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ok thanks for that can i ask how it would make a bomb as im interested as to how it would egnite to blow up.

I was just asking about gas hose and i know its not ordanery pipe and wonderd how its made.

where you are the correct fittings for copper pipe what i wanted seem easy to get hear there is nothing like that and its very hard to find anything to do with air con i guess its because there weather is never good enougth hear to need it like you do.

I take it if this pipe leaked it could be dangerous so was the pipe on the car as it had done the same thing and i see many other have

thanks
The mixture of compressed air and refrigerant has a low, low, LOW flash point. Some degrees lower than room temperature.

And yes, the old pipe would have leaked, that is true. But you would not have been making a very caustic acid if you would have had it fixed correctly or just dealt without the ac.

And no, copper pipe fittings are not the same, they are a compression or double compression style, not a crimped style.
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:26 PM
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No air con has nothing to do with the law hear.

Thanks
Are you sure?

Under the Environmental Protection Act 1990, the
deliberate release of refrigerant into the atmosphere is
illegal. The use of R12 is now banned in the UK.

Have a read of the info in the link, there is lot's more info on the F regulations for refrigerant gases in the EU.


http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...zuzk6CpxrWWH8A

I think it's a shame the metal glue didn't work for you.

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