So I picked up my car from the shop after they replaced the serpentine belt and related tensioners, as well as, a routine oil change, and as soon as I started the car the metal rattle happened again. Unfortunately the mechanic was not out there and when he came out to listen it would not happen again (it normally happens every time). I then proceeded to pick up my kids and when I got back in the car and started it again the metal rattle again happened when I started it. It only happens when I start the car and stops once it is started.

I noticed some people stating it could be the VVT, and I was wondering if anyone knows a ball park figure on how much it would cost to fix it if it is the VVT. Thanks again for your help.

 

You might get some info here -
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...e-p1386-36688/

 

Here is a recording of the sound I made when I start the car. Again it's only when I start the car, and stops once the car is started. Any ideas?

Engine Rattle On Start Recording Below


EngineRattleOnStart.wmv

 

Bump

 

One more suggestion. Are you sure it's not the starter? That would fit your problem. I might take the starter off and have it bench tested. You can get this done at most auto parts stores. Be careful with what they tell you because I have had starters that tester fine on the bench but were bad when on the car. But that noise might be noticeable when just spinning the starter.

Now you given more information it really does not point to the VVT. Those noises don't go away after the engine starts.
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Thanks clubairth1 and everyone for your help.

Yes the noise stops immediately after the car is started. No other noises are heard during driving. Sometimes the RPMs do fluctuate though when driving around 35-45 MPH. They just go up or down by 100-200 RPMs...the RPM needle just dances a little bit, normally when its warm outside. Starting to think that is unrelated though based on some of the posts.

I will see if I can get the starter tested, thanks.

 

Also just to add to this thought, It might not be the starter but the flywheel (ring gear). This is the part that the starter engages to spin the engine. I have seen in the past where a tooth or teeth brake off and if the engine stops in just the right spot you will get a strange noise once you try to start the car, this also might explain why it comes and goes.The engine will not always stop where the broken teeth are and multiple starts are probably not catching the bad spot.

 

That sounds like the torque convertor. They can fail to lock up. There's a TSB which may help S307-13 and see the FAQs / TSB stickies.

 

See below for VVT and your .sig
Oh and this isn't the XK forum!

 

Reviving my own post...

So the problem still persists after 3 different shops, none of which were Jaguar dealership...UNTIL NOW (it is currently at Jag). I have since not only had the metal rattle sound that I posted in my initial post, but Restricted Performance and the Check Engine light both came on, and the car stuttered when these lights were on, and subsequently was not drivable. I then turned the car off, and let it sit for a day, and when I restarted it the Engine and Restricted Access lights were off, and the car started normally, no metal rattle, no lights. I then later the same day started the car again, and the loud metal clanking (in my original post is a video of it happening) again was there only immediately after starting the car (the sound only lasts for about 2 seconds).

I then took it to another foreign car dealership named Blair's in Canton, OH, and they said they could not hear the noise. It happens almost every time I start it up when it is 75-80 degrees outside and only once every 10-15 times when it is really cold out. However, I played the sound for them and they recommended that I take to Jaguar for them to check out. So that is what I did.

Now I have finally sucked it up and took it to the Jaguar dealership (Kempthorn in Canton, OH). I scheduled an appointment (took about a week to get in) and dropped it off Tuesday night for my Wednesday morning appointment. It is now Thursday and they stated they have not heard it happen at all and said no codes were stored and everything seems fine. I then proceeded to email them a copy of the sound posted herein and a link to this thread, but was told unless they can hear the car do it and not a recording of my car doing it, it really won't help much. I understand it is easier to identify it if you can replicate it, but wouldn't such a distinct sound narrow it down a little? Anyway they are stumped, after 2 days, and I am at a loss. I mentioned about the VVT and flywheel but they didn't really say either way about those ideas. Please listen to the sound it sounds like something metal is clanking around. It is loud as heck too. I have actually had people come over to me when starting the car to ask if I heard my engine clanking on start-up on 3 seperate occassions.

Regarding the previously mentioned RPM issue they are doing the reflash that was recommended to me by another member in another post. So I will let you guys know if that fixes the RPM fluctuations or not. From what I have read I think it will fix that issue, but not the major metal clanking issue.

Anyway any additional help or insight is appreciated. They still have the car so if anyone can tell me what to have them do next to diagnose it I'd appreciate it. All they have done is test drive it and check for codes I believe.

 

I'm having trouble downloading the recording you posted. Does it sound sort of like a clacking noise (as if you were shaking a can of spray paint)? I had something like that on my old Maserati -- I thought something terrible was happening, but it turned out to just be a faulty smog pump.

 

Thanks for the response Zachster. It is a little different than that. It sounds really loud and like metal rattling in the engine. Almost like metal was hitting and bouncing off each other. It only last 2-3 seconds after start-up.

 

Also the Jaguar dealership said they do not believe it is the Torque Converter because they said the metal clanking sound would happen every time I started the car. I was under the impression that the Torque Converter might be the RPM Fluctuation when driving between 35-45 MPH issue and not the metal clanking on start issue. Maybe I misunderstood them or perhaps they misunderstood me. I don't know if this is correct or not just relaying the info in hopes of narrowing the problem down.

 

Plenty of posts about the torque convertor problem and I believe the TSB is where the sticky takes you. Possibly in some of the threads, too. You sound to have 2 or 3 unrelated problems. Is the starter the metal sound as was suggested? Neither of those 2 would necessarily set codes (starter likely can't).

Your restricted (access? beats me, I thought it normally says performance) & CEL.... I expect codes for that. Still, all the usual things presumably apply (coils, air leak whatever), plenty of threads to read and think about if it keeps happening.

 

JagV8 thank you for your help.

Restricted Access...oops...you are correct I meant Restricted Performance...sorry about that. I edited it and fixed it, thank you.

Regarding the starter...I asked the Jaguar dealership and he never gave me a straight answer other than to say he can start pulling stuff out and checking, but without knowing what he is looking for we may have to do a lot of work to just find the problem, if there is one (there clearly is a problem though). I have been doing research to see the most likely cause of the metal rattle on start, but have not come across a thread with this same problem yet. Maybe I missed it, but all I have seen thread wise is / are belt issues (serpentine) which this is not, and the serpentine belt was already replaced by another garage about 1-2 months ago. I will ask him tomorrow how much it will cost to pull the starter and check. Thanks again for all your help.

My impression based soley on what I have learned from researching on this board and google, and from members here, and seeing what relates to my car are:

1. VVT (someone else posted earlier in this thread they had the metal rattle problem and after replacing the VVT solenoids it stopped)(However I have also read that VVT problem sounds normally do not go away after start, and this problem always goes away after 2-3 seconds)

2. Torque Converter

3. Flywheel

The problem is #1 and #2 sound costly to check since Jaguar said they would have to pull them out of the car to inspect them (I don't know, maybe I am wrong and it won't cost that much) so I am trying to see which is the most likely culprit so I have somewhere to start. I initially felt it was the VVT, but after reading that the noise normally continues (not sure if this is true or not) after it is started I started backing away from this idea. I am personally leaning towards a problem with the starter / flywheel or torque converter but really would love to hear everyone's opinion on this. There is a recording I made of the sound posted in the original post. Thanks again everyone for your help, and please feel free to let me know which sounds the most likely or if you completely disagree altogether. Thanks again.

 

OK, RP makes sense. It sounds like a new problem and I'd look out for it happening again then try to memorise what conditions were (& read codes).

TC would be quite expensive to replace (or inspect - read up what & where it is etc). I'd not do it unless you've more of a reason but I've never had to make a decision about a TC on any of my own cars. I don't see your noise being TC but someone may have an idea how it could be.

VVT - I think a small number of people have replaced the solenoid, maybe DIY. Either here or on Jaguar Forum.co.uk • Index page (but I don't know if your noise could be VVT-related).

With such an obscure noise I'd be leaving bonnet (hood) up and using a mechanic's stethoscope to try (day-by-day) to get nearer the source. Be careful of moving parts! I'd particularly want to know if it was specific to one bank or neither or what/where.

Or, I'd wait and see.

 

Update:

So I picked the car up from the Jaguar dealership today after having the following done.

1. New Oil Filter (Valvoline put too small an oil filter in and the shop believes this is caused oil pressure issues resulting in the timing chain tensioners rattling on start up)

2. Replaced Air Filter

3. Reflash ECU

Result:

Problem 1 Outcome....Metal Rattle:

Started up the car at the dealer and immediately the metal clanking sound returned. Called the Jaguar tech out and he said that it may take sometime for the noise to stop after replacing the oil filter with the Jaguar OEM oil filter. He said drive it this weekend and call him Monday if it continues. I have tried starting my car four times since and 3 out of the four the horrible metal rattle sound happened. I do not believe this is fixed. ARGH! The more I hear it, and knowing it only happens when I start the car and the sound immediately stops once it is started, I am thinking it is the starter, but I will give it this weekend and see if the sound finally stops.


Problem 2 RPM Fluctuation Outcome:

Either the reflash or the change in oil filter seemed so far to completely rectify this issue. The reflash was $102 through the Jaguar Dealership and was definitely worth it.


Question:

Does it seem reasonable that the wrong oil filter put in by Valvoline would cause the metal rattle, and since they fixed it by installing the correct oil filter wouldn't that fix it immediately and not require all weekend of driving to stop making the metal rattle noise from the tensioners due to low oil pressure which in turn was due to the wrong size oil filter? Thanks again for your help everyone.

I will keep everyone updated as this progresses. I am hoping that the metal clanking on start up is resolved as I drive it more, but so far it is not. I will drive it this weekend and will keep you updated.

 

I have a hard time excepting the oil filter theory. If they did put the wrong one on and the noise started after that I would take the wrong filter back to them and tell them you damaged my engine by using the wrong oil filter. It now has a metal clanging noise and you need to fix it.
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For the noise problem, I would put my money on it being the starter, or at least related to the starter. In the sound file you provided, it sounds to me like the either the starter is not dis-engaging properly or it keeps trying to re-engage after the car is started. It sounds like a back-and-forth clacking sound you might get with something engaging/dis-engaging - like it sounds when there is not enough power from the battery to start the car. If it's electrical, I assume there could be many causes (poor connections, worn wire, etc.), and if it's mechanical it could be the solenoid or starter itself.

 

Thanks beaker60 for the advice. I agree, and believe now it is something with the starter or flywheel since it only happens when I start the car, and stops within seconds (1-2 seconds) after the car starts.

Update:

The metal clacking or clanking has continued (dare I say worsened as it happens everytime I start the car now) and has not stopped as the Jaguar tech stated it would after switching the oil filter and running it this weekend. I researched Jaguar flywheel problems but could not ever find a sound file to hear what it sounded like. I then searched for any car with a bad flywheel that had a sound file I could listen too and came across 2 on youtube. Both sound identical to my car even though they were not Jaguars. Both had to have the flywheel replaced / fixed. Argh.

I will continue to update this as the saga continues. Thanks again for all the help.