2005 S-Type 3.0 with a factory moonroof....


Based upon the location of water dripping from the right rear roof pillar inside the cabin after a heavy rainstorm, I suspect that the passenger-side moonroof rear drain hose is either clogged with debris or detached from its moonroof drain hose nozzle. JTIS shows many pages of instructions on how to remove the entire hose, a very involved process requiring the removal of the rear bumper cover, all interior roof and pillar hardware, side panels, seat belts, trunk parts, etc.

I do not want to remove the drain hose. I just want to get to the moonroof rear drain nozzle where it attaches to the drain hose that runs down that right rear pillar and check it for clogs or detachment from the nozzle.

How can I do that by removing the least amount of components in and around the headliner in that area?

Any advice or step-by-step instructions on how to do so by those of you who have done this would be greatly appreciated....

 

I decided to review the full JTIS moonroof drain hose removal instructions one more time and then get after it to see how many components I would have to remove or loosen before I could gain access to the right rear drain hose. Here's what I had to do:

1. Remove passenger-side front seat grab handle and rear seat grab handle. That required my Torx T-20 bit, two screws per grab handle.

2. Remove passenger-side windshield sun visor. That also required my Torx T-20 bit, three total screws.

3. Remove passenger-side seat belt adjustment nut on the B-pillar. That required my 17mm socket.

4. Pull down the front passenger-side rubber door seals and the rear passenger-side rubber door seals all along the area that encompasses the headliner and the A, B, and C pillars. You do this with nothing but your fingers. Take note of how the seals are slotted, how they hold the edges of the headliner and pillars in place, and how they fit into the slots. Just remove the upper portion of the seals, not the lower portion below the pillars, and allow the removed portions of the seals to just hang there, out of your way.

5. Pull off the A, B, and C pillars using just your fingers. They are held in place by various plastic tabs. Pull the pillars straight out using steady force and the tabs will not break. At least mine didn't. You do not have to completely detach any of these pillars, but they must be pulled far enough away from the headliner edges to allow you to get your fingers underneath the headliner edges.

6. Pull down the entire passenger side of the headliner using just your fingers. Go slowly, do not force it or crease it, just use steady pulling by moving your fingers across and underneath the headliner edge, and it will drop down far enough for you to find and access the right rear moonroof drain hose.

7. Using a small flashlight, find the moonroof black metal frame between the headliner and the roof, and work your eyes rearward until you spot the black rubber rear drain hose where it attaches to the drain nozzle.

8. Work your fingers up there and ensure that the hose is tightly attached to the nozzle. If it is not, slide the hose end forward on the nozzle as far as you can. You may want to install a screw-type clamp on the end of the hose before you do this.


Reassembly is in reverse order of the above instructions. Take your time and pay attention to how the various components are loosened and removed as you are disassembling them so reassembly will be easier for you. You do not need many tools to do this job, but you need plenty of patience and an understanding of how the various components fit together and hold each other in place.

I spent about an hour doing the actual work, but I took my time ensuring that I clearly understood the sequence required and the dependence of each successive component holding the next component in place where it belonged. I had absolutely no issues getting everything put back together properly.


Our next big rainstorm should tell me if my efforts cured this particular leak. Studying the area carefully while I was sitting in the right rear backseat reinstalling the right rear door's rubber seal around the edge of the headliner made me notice that the leak could also be originating from the upper right corner of the rear window seal. And I wonder if a failing moonroof surround seal could be the cause as well. So I'll wait and watch and see what happens. This leak has never occurred during moderate rainfall or simply washing the car - it takes a major deluge for water drips to appear in this area....


Hope this post helps someone else out there dealing with water leaks in the cabin....

 

Thanks Jon89 for posting this useful tutorial.

 

I guess the drain hose was still connected? Did you blow out the line?

Some problems are from pine needles and other debris getting in the hose and restricting flow but not stopping it completely.

On the Lincoln LS forums it's always been the front hoses that come off. You may be right that it's from the window seal.

Hopefully you got it fixed.
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Nice one Jon! I hope it works for you.

 

Hey Jon and thanks for the write up...............where's the pics tho?

Please advise how you get on and if this is worthy of a "how to" or at least a RESOLVED?

 

Thanks for posting this! And - I hope you stay dry inside the car after next heavy rain

 

Update:

Numerous late-summer thunderstorms during the past week have proven that my previous attempt to find and fix our S-Type water leak was not completely successful. More rainwater has shown up on the headliner at the top of the passenger-side rear C-pillar, though not as much as before I did my initial repair a couple of weeks ago. But what really concerns me is that enough of this rainwater has run down and collected underneath the right rear floorboard carpet to be squishy and damp there. When I removed my all-weather rubber mat and the factory carpet mat below it just a few minutes ago, I can put my hand directly on the right rear floorboard carpet, push up and down in a vacuum-creating motion, and feel enough water underneath the floorboard carpet squishing around to make me think that there may be a quarter-inch or more rainwater trapped underneath the floorboard carpet with nowhere to go....

So before I pull down the entire passenger-side headliner again to check for more moonroof leaks (perhaps the front drain on the passenger side, which I did not check last time because I was convinced the leak would be from the rear drain on the passenger side), I need to address the wet passenger-side rear floorboard carpet. To properly get to the area, it appears that the rear seat must come out, which should then allow me to pull up the rear passenger-side floorboard carpet....

I've studied my JTIS CD but I can find no mention of how the rear floorboard carpets are fastened down and subsequently removed when necessary. So can those of you who have previously removed your rear seat and pulled back your rear floorboard carpets offer any advice on how to best do so without having to remove most of the interior of the car?

Chasing these rainwater leaks is not my idea of fun. Any advice on how to best remove only the essential components necessary would be very much appreciated....

 

Jon, I can only post this picture of the approximate "tang" clips that hold the rear bench down.

I am thinking the door sills and possibly pass. front seat may need to be removed. The sills I have never played with but the front seats I had removed a few years ago to steam clean the carpet,

The front seat is easily removed or unbolted (4) bolts) and set aside with the seat belt still attached to seat.

 

Thanks for the photo, Rick. Every piece of information from those who have been there before certainly helps....

How do these rear seat "tang clips" work? Are they simply levers that you move one way or another to release the rear seat bench and back? Or are they special fasteners that must be pulled out somehow and completely removed? JTIS mentions the "tangs" but offers no description as to how they work....

After fully opening the moonroof and pouring a few ounces of water into the black metal moonroof channels at each of the four corners and then using my leaf blower to blow that water to the proper drain location, it is definitely the right rear moonroof drain that is causing my problem. The other three drains all run freely with the water exiting at the bottom of each wheel well as it should. But no water at all shows up at the bottom of the right rear wheel well. So I'm going to have to go back into the right rear moonroof drain hose nozzle located above the headliner in the right rear backseat to try to figure out where it is either clogged or misaligned somehow. Unfortunately I must wait for a clear couple of days with no threat of rain, which may not occur until after this coming weekend....

 

The "tangs" as I remember are "J" shaped. They do slide one way to undo, then the other way to reattach. Nothing else as I can remember holds the bench seat in.

When Joyce gets home tonight I will snap a picture. Removal is quite simple.

 

Jon, I went out last night to take a few shots. Joyce has 2 car seats installed, honestly I did not want to screw around with them. She will be heading out for a few days, so I will remove them as I don't like having them strapped in while she is away. It gives the leather time to "settle" back.

I will post up in a day or so.

sorry

 

Rick,

No worries - don't screw up Joyce's car seats. Your initial photo should be enough for me to figure it out....

I did my annual lawn aeration, seeding, fertilizing, and straw cover today, so I'm too whipped to work on the S-Type anyway. Started at 6:45 am, finished at 2:50 pm in what was eventually 92-degree heat and very high humidity. One of these Septembers I'll wise up and quit doing this ****-retentive lawn care crap....

 

Jon, I did not remove the bench seat cushion, but the following picture is the exact location of the spring loaded "J" clip. Again 1 on each side of the bench.

You may need your neighbor with the skinny fingers to help out, the J clip is in a tight area (between the floor board and cushion), it moves only 1 way without any forcing. I used my middle finger in the picture.

 

Thanks Rick. Unfortunately for me, my small-handed neighbor retired to Florida at the end of July. I'll miss him as well as his vast tool collection and automotive prowess....

I may work on the moonroof water leak issue later today, but I need clear skies with no threat of afternoon thunderstorms. So it may have to wait for a few more days....

 

Update:

During my first attempt a couple of weeks ago to clear out my right rear moonroof drain hose, I relied just on my ability to blow out the hose using my own lung power. Although that apparently cleared some of the debris in the hose, it did not clear all of it. So this morning I went to another neighbor who has a 120-volt air compressor and an attachment that he called a blow-out valve. This blow-out valve screws onto the end of the air hose and has a tapered nozzle that easily slid down into the removed top end of my moonroof drain hose to make a tight fit. Then by squeezing the trigger on the blow-out valve to send a blast of compressed air through the moonroof drain hose, it cleared that hose in less than ten seconds. The initial blast of water that came out of the bottom of the drain hose behind the right rear wheel was cloudy-brown and full of bits of debris, so it was obvious that the drain hose had a fairly large plug blocking it. After reattaching the drain hose to the moonroof drain nozzle, I poured about 8 ounces of water into the right side track of the open moonroof. Within five seconds, all of that water came pouring out of the bottom of the right rear moonroof drain hose behind the right rear wheel, exactly as it should. So I'm confident now that my moonroof leak is finally fixed....

As far as drying out my right rear floorboard carpet is concerned, I decided not to remove the rear seat to try to pull the carpet up. Instead, I used my ShopVac to pull as much of the water as I could up through the carpet, then I blotted the carpet with a couple of old bath towels. Amazingly, vacuuming and blotting got quite a bit of the water out of the carpet. I then set up one of our 120-volt dog dryers (essentially a portable hair dryer built to tougher standards to dry large dog's coats after a bath) on the carpet pointing down, cranked it up to high, and turned it on. I lowered the right rear window to run the power cord through as well as to give the evaporating water a place to exit the car from. I'll run it all day long today, moving it around on the carpet from spot to spot as needed. My guess is that not only will it get the carpet dry, it will also get the pad underneath the carpet dry as well (if I run it long enough). If all day today does not do the trick, I'll do it again all day tomorrow. The sun is out now so I think my plan will work pretty well. We'll see....

 

I've been reading this thread partially and wondering what's in store for me?

Good to see that you think you've finally found the issue.

I had similar leaking in a much older car (1984) a couple of years ago and it involved shrunken window seals combine with a a blocked-by-debris door drain. During a huge downpour where water off of my garage roof poured onto the car like a fire hose it overloaded the doors drainage and it all poured into the foot well! I knew I had a problem when I backed the car out of the driveway and it sounded like I had installed a hot tub in the car somewhere!

I did just what you're doing to the carpet and pads and that does work if you get it completely dried out soon enough.

So best of luck with all of this.

 

Jon89;
I am not clear yet? Was the rear moon-roof drain hose disconnected? The reason I ask as it has not been reported for the S Type or the Lincoln LS. It has always been the front hoses that come off.
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No, the right rear moonroof drain hose was NOT disconnected from its nozzle. The hose was attached properly and snugly (no clamp needed), but it was clogged with years of small debris. Blowing out the debris with my neighbor's air compressor cleared the hose completely, which my lungs did not do last time. All four hoses now drain properly....

When I first went after the problem a couple of weeks ago, I was expecting the moonroof drain hoses to be plastic tubing. To my surprise, the drain hoses (at least the REAR drain hoses, anyway) are rubber tubing, a far better and longer-lasting material than plastic. We already know far too well how crappy the various plastic parts in these cars are....

 

Jon, did you blow out the other 3 hoses just for the heck of it??? Preventative maintenance type stuff...