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  #1  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:55 PM
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Default 4 wheel alignment on my 03 xtype 3.0 AWD... question on camber adjustment

Took my jag to a local shop with a Hunter alignment machine which they said has the most up to date specs. etc..etc...etc... They said they could do the alignment no problem. When I got it back they said were unable to adjust the Camber because there is no place to make that adjustment on the vehicle.

The primary reason I took it in for alignment is that the front tires were worn through the steel belts on the inside edge of both tires. The rest of the front tire tread looked ok.

So is this shop full of crap or is there really no way to adjust the Camber setting?
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:11 PM
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There is no way to adjust the camber except by moving the subframe... unfortunately... as understand... but I had my subframe adjusted slightly to move my right camber back into specs - maybe you should ask about that too.
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:11 PM
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Default Well that sucks!!!

Thats a really bad design.

I have been reading and it looks like you have to buy the new control arms in order to bring the bottom of the tire back to center and run true. They sell the control arms with new ball joints too. Seems like the right way to do it if that is how its done. I found them for $178 per side for the front.

I also found them for the rear at $89 per and there are 2 on each side for the rear. So you need a total of 4 for the rear.

Apparently the bushings wear out and and this causes the camber to be out of spec.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:08 PM
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Afonda, you are correct, there are no camber adjustments and you can only replace parts. So, if your camber is out, you will have to do some work. With that being said, doing some looking, you can possibly replace just the bushings by doing some cross-referencing with the universal bushings from Energy Suspension. But, with my research so far for the rear control arm (lower), the outside bushing can be replaced, but the inside bushing is a unique thing and if that is bad, then you are SOL. I am investigating modifying the factory arm and installing a heim joint on the inside joint which would get rid of the unique joint from the factory and would also give you an adjustment to the rear camber. But, this is a work in progress.

Of note, the upper and lower control arms are different numbers. So, make sure you get the correct piece for each spot. Another thing I am researching (haven't gotten any info yet though) is there is an adjustable upper control arm from a Ford Fusion/Volvo S60 (03-07 years as I recall). Looks very similar to what is on our cars and the aftermarket ones have an adjustable piece for them. But, I need to make a run to a junk yard and see if I can find the information I need. Another one of the projects I am looking into. If you are willing to take a gamble, may want to look into this. If you are in the southern MD area, I would be willing to install the pieces for you. Then you would just need to find a local shop to get the alignment done. I can get it close, but not close enough to prevent excessive tire wear over a long time.
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:29 PM
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Default What is the technical dificultly with

replacing the lower control arms? Is this something I can do in my garage? I have all the power tools, air tools, etc...

I found a lower control arm that comes with a new ball joint allready installed which is nice.

This is all in the effort to correct for the camber.

Thanks
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Old 08-09-2009, 08:11 PM
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I had to get the lower arm in the rear rht side replaced for the alignment to end up right on my X, I was very pissed, it took multiple shops giving me different answers including the *********** (very frustrating couple of weeks) - but she runs straight now. I am sure the left lower arm will become a culprit in a few years. Oh well, you gotta pay if you want to play. I think the lower arm replacement cost me around $300.
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Last edited by Humy; 08-09-2009 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 08-09-2009, 10:17 PM
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afonda, yes, it should be something that you can do at your place. Probably the hardest part will be separating the lower ball joint. Even that isn't too hard. So, barring a nut that is seized on to a bolt, it will be easy sailing.

Wish you luck.
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Old 08-10-2009, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
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afonda, yes, it should be something that you can do at your place. Probably the hardest part will be separating the lower ball joint. Even that isn't too hard. So, barring a nut that is seized on to a bolt, it will be easy sailing.

Wish you luck.

Nothing a cutting disc cant cure!!
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Old 08-10-2009, 06:44 PM
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fonda, amen brother. I just had to cut the bolt for one of my rear lower control arms. So, I know all too well the power of a cutting wheel. Granted, if not used properly, can cause a ton of damage in the time it takes to say "Oh SH....". LMAO.
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:54 AM
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I'd be interested to know the camber readings. Because in all my years, camber has yet to be the cause of tire wear on any Jag, UNLESS something is bent, which would cause camber to be OUT OF SPEC. If camber is within spec. it is the front TOE causing tire wear. Camber would have to be very excessive, and I mean eyeball noticing excessive to cause tire wear.

The tires on your car sound like they are toed OUT, which is common, causing inside edge wear. The faster you go, the lower the car rides, the more force is put on the front tires, pusing them in an outward, or toed out direction. If your total toe spec is out, you'll wear tires fast. And toe just has to be a LITTLE out to cause wear, or a pull.
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:01 AM
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And when you 4 wheel align a vehicle, it is an absolute MUST to bring the rear into spec BEFORE the front. Otherwise the adjustments made to the front were a waste of time because the front ALWAYS follows what the rear is doing. Do some 4 wheel alignment searces to see diagrams of what I'm saying.
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:00 PM
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I will second what poboyblue said; if the inside of front tires are wearing then you have too much toe out( or negative toe ) and the rear toe must be set to the zero thrust line before fronts toe can be set.

I too had inside front tire edge wearing. Setting the front toe to as close to zero is the remedy for that. Front cambers are adjustable by moving the subframe but the left and right move together, if you make left camber more positive the the right side camber become more negative and vice versa. If the camber is different by more than 0.5 deg left to right then it will start causing pull issue.

If you don't have directional tires, easiest way to correct pull issue is to swap front tire positions with each other. It's simple and very effective.
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Old 08-14-2009, 07:46 AM
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hmmm and no one mentioned 2 common problems with X's
1) mushroomed upper strut mounts
2) bents struts
upper mounts get pounded up on pot holes spreading mount bolts out and dropping ride height.
Bent struts are hard to tell until you pull from the knuckle then can easily see with a straight edge along the housing. I useally just measure from the tire to back fenderlip. more than a 1/4" difference between sides and usually bent(and useally the right side) replaced shocks in pairs if more than 50k miles (unless you like the tetter totter effect)
as far as setting toe, if you dont take into consideration the amount of play in the suspension when setting front toe you can still end up with toed out inside tire wear. follow Mercedes recommendation of using a spreader bar between the front tires to take out suspension defelction(I use my arms to push out) this will show you what the front tires do as you drive down the road. The road tries to force the tires out and depending on how much suspension deflection you have you may even need to toe in to the red on the maching to get it in the green and zero toe as you drive. This is why Jaguar changed the toe spec on 03^ Stypes and should have done it on 04^ XJ's if the tires are wearing inside its too much toe out, I dont care what the machine says, its a tool, the tires tell you the real story....that is if you speak "TIRE"
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:31 AM
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Default I will try and find the print out from the allignment ...

So I can scan it and post it here. It may be hard to read as some of the numbers were printed in a very light shade of grey.
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:31 PM
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Click the image to open in full size.




Sorry this looks so crazy... I had to re-type it. couldn't hardly read the fax I received from the repair shop.

Maybe you guys can tell me whats up with the numbers...

I just drove the Jag yesterday and the steering wheel is shaking with a very distinct vibration starting about 60 to 70 mph, and pulling to the left pretty significantly.

I'm worried about rapidly going through another set of tires. they are not cheap for this car.

Thanks
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:03 PM
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Unhappy I am experiencing the same shim except to the right

Quote:
Originally Posted by afonda View Post
Click the image to open in full size.





Sorry this looks so crazy... I had to re-type it. couldn't hardly read the fax I received from the repair shop.

Maybe you guys can tell me whats up with the numbers...

I just drove the Jag yesterday and the steering wheel is shaking with a very distinct vibration starting about 60 to 70 mph, and pulling to the left pretty significantly.

I'm worried about rapidly going through another set of tires. they are not cheap for this car.

Thanks
I am having the same steering wheel shake at about 60 - 75 mph. I reach 75 and it smooths out. Any idea how much to fix?
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:41 AM
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spunupagain, normally when my car does what you are describing, getting a wheel alignment is all that is needed to get it straightened out. I find that the toe rods will need to be adjusted to get the toe set properly which will restore the shake free wheel. In short, what is happening is your wheels are not pointing in the same direction. So, one wheel is trying to turn the car left as the other wheel is turning the car right. They are fighting and at certain speeds, it develops a harmonic which will show itself in the steering wheel.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:41 AM
 
 
 
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Tags
1997, alignment, alinment, awd, awdwheel, bolt, camber, jaguar, kit, setting, type, wheel, xj6, xk8, xtype



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