The Big 3 Upgrade
#1
07-06-2013, 06:03 PM
#3
07-07-2013, 08:38 AM
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Alfa, the big 3 upgrade is upgrading the wiring to your car in the following 3 spots:
-From the alternator to the battery positive
-from the body to the battery negative
-from the engine to the battery negative
The thought process is that by using a larger gauge wire in these locations, when pulling high currents, the larger gauge wiring is going to have less loss and therefore the electrical components (normally large car amplifiers) do not have to work as hard to output the same power. Therefore, increasing their lifetime. In the case of car stereos, by keeping a higher voltage at the amp terminals, the amp will pull less current and therefore will not heat up as badly even though it is outputting the same power or it can pull the higher current and output even more sound/power.
kashaf, the alternator is rated for 120 amps. So, in your case, you can go with a 150 amp fuse and be fine. Granted, I have to ask why as the alternator will self limit itself since the max output is a function of the generating field becoming saturated. So, the alternator can not exceed 120 amp output (in reality it will go slightly above, but that is because of other characteristics and I won't go into that at the moment). By adding a fuse, you are simply adding in 1 more piece that can fail and result in a no power situation. Install a fuse between the spot where you are tapping off your power for the stereo amp and the stereo (with the fuse as close as practical to the power source) and call it good. Other fuses are going to just get in the way. if you have more questions, let me know. I have helped my friends doing this upgrade on their trucks where we have had to install dual and triple alternators and need to have stuff worthy of handling 500+ amps. That is where making the connections can start to make a big difference and something as small as 0.01 ohms of resistance is of concern.
-From the alternator to the battery positive
-from the body to the battery negative
-from the engine to the battery negative
The thought process is that by using a larger gauge wire in these locations, when pulling high currents, the larger gauge wiring is going to have less loss and therefore the electrical components (normally large car amplifiers) do not have to work as hard to output the same power. Therefore, increasing their lifetime. In the case of car stereos, by keeping a higher voltage at the amp terminals, the amp will pull less current and therefore will not heat up as badly even though it is outputting the same power or it can pull the higher current and output even more sound/power.
kashaf, the alternator is rated for 120 amps. So, in your case, you can go with a 150 amp fuse and be fine. Granted, I have to ask why as the alternator will self limit itself since the max output is a function of the generating field becoming saturated. So, the alternator can not exceed 120 amp output (in reality it will go slightly above, but that is because of other characteristics and I won't go into that at the moment). By adding a fuse, you are simply adding in 1 more piece that can fail and result in a no power situation. Install a fuse between the spot where you are tapping off your power for the stereo amp and the stereo (with the fuse as close as practical to the power source) and call it good. Other fuses are going to just get in the way. if you have more questions, let me know. I have helped my friends doing this upgrade on their trucks where we have had to install dual and triple alternators and need to have stuff worthy of handling 500+ amps. That is where making the connections can start to make a big difference and something as small as 0.01 ohms of resistance is of concern.
#5
07-07-2013, 02:32 PM
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#6
07-08-2013, 03:52 AM
Ok. I was just a bit confused really. Thing is i think my battery terminals are worn out rusted etc since car is 10years of age now. So i thought if im gonna change terminals i might aswell do the big 3 upgrade since i later plan on doing some electronic upgrades like rear seat heaters, extra usb charging ports, small power inverter and aftermarket amp upgrade overall i will need 1500 watts extra if everything is being used at once at full capacity.
Problem is i don't want to overwork the alternator. What would be the best way i can setup electronics to ensure that alternator doesn't wear out.
Problem is i don't want to overwork the alternator. What would be the best way i can setup electronics to ensure that alternator doesn't wear out.
#7
07-08-2013, 08:37 AM
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kashaf, in reality, the USB charging ports are so small of a load, I would not worry about them. Now, if you are looking at charging say 10-20 items, then it might be of a concern. So, ease up what you are dealing with and go from there.
When dealing with alternators, do not worry so much about watts as amps. Amps is what the alternator really cares about. It will also make trying to figure out what you need a bit more simple.
The rear seat heaters are probably going to be around 30-40 amps. Since they will be used so little, you need to think about when they are going to be used and go from there. Unfortunately, they will probably be used at about the worst time. As I see it, you are going to get out to your car on a cold winter morning, you are going to start up the car (still at a relatively low RPM), all 4 seats are going to have the heaters kicked on, you are going to turn on the head lights, turn on the defrosters (front and rear). Without the upgrades, this drops the alternator to its knees and makes it really work, borderline overloaded (more on this in a second). So, short of upgrading to a larger alternator or installing a second alternator, not much you can do about that.
As for the power inverter, you can save yourself a lot of amps by simply cutting the inverter out of the equation and direct connecting stuff. What I mean by this is the following: why have the car generate 12 VDC so you can invert it back to 115 VAC, just to plug a DC power supply into the inverter to make 9 VDC. You can simplify the process by simply getting a converter that goes straight from 12 VDC to 9 VDC. Maybe if I know what you are looking to power off the inverter, I might have a better way of doing things. An example of this was I helped a friend install a PS2 into his truck. It had an external power supply and I made a special power supply to took the 12 VDC from the truck and dropped it down to the 10 VDC that the PS2 needed. You will find that this will also be easier on the electronics as an inverter does not make a very good AC sine wave and in some cases, electronics will revolt on you and just not function due to too much electrical noise.
As for the aftermarket amp, if you have 4 people in the car, then odds are, you are not going to have the stereo cranked up. If you don't have 4 people in the car, then you are not going to be using all the seat heaters, you are going to have extra room electrically, so, you should be good to go. But, again, this is assuming you are using a small amp (under/at 4x50 W RMS). Bigger, you may have issues.
Getting back to the alternator and its output. Yes, your alternator is rated at 120 amps. But, that is the max it can put it. That assumes the engine is up at about 1500 RPM or more. If the engine RPM drops below 1500 RPM, the output of the alternator will drop. At idle, the max output of the alternator can be as little as half of the rated output (in your case 60 amps). This is simply a function of how alternators work. The only way that you can be garanteed to have all the power that you would need at all times is to upgrade to a larger alternator (say one around 250 amps) or to install a second alternator (another 120 amps). I now there will be people that will say "just put in a bigger battery, all will be good". My answer is "kinda". A battery is a limited source of power. It should not be being drawn upon with the engine running. A battery serves 2 purposes: 1) provide the energy to start the engine, and 2) provide some filtering to smooth out the pulsing DC power coming from the alternator. Using a battery for anything else is an emergency condition and should be avoided at all cost. Besides, what kills an alternator is not so much having it make electricity, it is putting it into an overload condition as the field will be being saturated and will be handling too much current, which will lead to the field winding cooking itself.
So, in your case, you really have 2 options as I see it. The cheaper alternative is to simply control what you turn on when. The car will tell you when you are overloading the alternator 2 ways (flashing battery light on the dash or you will see your headlights start to dim-HID headlights will simply not turn on). The other option is to upgrade the alternator to a larger unit so you have the extra power that you need to handle what you are after.
When dealing with alternators, do not worry so much about watts as amps. Amps is what the alternator really cares about. It will also make trying to figure out what you need a bit more simple.
The rear seat heaters are probably going to be around 30-40 amps. Since they will be used so little, you need to think about when they are going to be used and go from there. Unfortunately, they will probably be used at about the worst time. As I see it, you are going to get out to your car on a cold winter morning, you are going to start up the car (still at a relatively low RPM), all 4 seats are going to have the heaters kicked on, you are going to turn on the head lights, turn on the defrosters (front and rear). Without the upgrades, this drops the alternator to its knees and makes it really work, borderline overloaded (more on this in a second). So, short of upgrading to a larger alternator or installing a second alternator, not much you can do about that.
As for the power inverter, you can save yourself a lot of amps by simply cutting the inverter out of the equation and direct connecting stuff. What I mean by this is the following: why have the car generate 12 VDC so you can invert it back to 115 VAC, just to plug a DC power supply into the inverter to make 9 VDC. You can simplify the process by simply getting a converter that goes straight from 12 VDC to 9 VDC. Maybe if I know what you are looking to power off the inverter, I might have a better way of doing things. An example of this was I helped a friend install a PS2 into his truck. It had an external power supply and I made a special power supply to took the 12 VDC from the truck and dropped it down to the 10 VDC that the PS2 needed. You will find that this will also be easier on the electronics as an inverter does not make a very good AC sine wave and in some cases, electronics will revolt on you and just not function due to too much electrical noise.
As for the aftermarket amp, if you have 4 people in the car, then odds are, you are not going to have the stereo cranked up. If you don't have 4 people in the car, then you are not going to be using all the seat heaters, you are going to have extra room electrically, so, you should be good to go. But, again, this is assuming you are using a small amp (under/at 4x50 W RMS). Bigger, you may have issues.
Getting back to the alternator and its output. Yes, your alternator is rated at 120 amps. But, that is the max it can put it. That assumes the engine is up at about 1500 RPM or more. If the engine RPM drops below 1500 RPM, the output of the alternator will drop. At idle, the max output of the alternator can be as little as half of the rated output (in your case 60 amps). This is simply a function of how alternators work. The only way that you can be garanteed to have all the power that you would need at all times is to upgrade to a larger alternator (say one around 250 amps) or to install a second alternator (another 120 amps). I now there will be people that will say "just put in a bigger battery, all will be good". My answer is "kinda". A battery is a limited source of power. It should not be being drawn upon with the engine running. A battery serves 2 purposes: 1) provide the energy to start the engine, and 2) provide some filtering to smooth out the pulsing DC power coming from the alternator. Using a battery for anything else is an emergency condition and should be avoided at all cost. Besides, what kills an alternator is not so much having it make electricity, it is putting it into an overload condition as the field will be being saturated and will be handling too much current, which will lead to the field winding cooking itself.
So, in your case, you really have 2 options as I see it. The cheaper alternative is to simply control what you turn on when. The car will tell you when you are overloading the alternator 2 ways (flashing battery light on the dash or you will see your headlights start to dim-HID headlights will simply not turn on). The other option is to upgrade the alternator to a larger unit so you have the extra power that you need to handle what you are after.
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#8
07-08-2013, 09:29 AM
Ye you know exactly my concern. Unfortunately, i am not the only person driving the car so i can't really explain to my famiky membees what they can or can't have on. The inverter is only 300w for charging laptops. I found a decent one for $35. I was gonna take out its sockets and fit one somewhere in front and one in back both with it's own switch and a master switch by steering wheel which i will control. The aftermarket amp at full crank will be pulling 1000watt rms i think. USB ports will not be pulling much at all. Do you know where i could get high output alternators for the x-type in north america?
#9
07-08-2013, 10:12 PM
also according to this forum
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-1-ford-48419/
you can use same alternators in your xtype as the following models
mazda6, ford contour sport, 2005-2006 lincoln zephyr, lincoln LS.....
so i have been looking for some alternators from lincoln ls. I found one...
Lincoln LS New High 200 Amp Alternator 2000 2002 Generator | eBay
just wondering whether it will fit my x-type
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-1-ford-48419/
you can use same alternators in your xtype as the following models
mazda6, ford contour sport, 2005-2006 lincoln zephyr, lincoln LS.....
so i have been looking for some alternators from lincoln ls. I found one...
Lincoln LS New High 200 Amp Alternator 2000 2002 Generator | eBay
just wondering whether it will fit my x-type
#10
07-08-2013, 10:52 PM
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Keep in mind that the 1000W amp will be pulling 100 amps at full draw. So, that is not a "small" load. The inverter would be up to 30 amps at full load. While I know it would be nice to have a charging port for the laptop, I think you might be pushing things a bit far (atleast as I see it, but it is your life and we all have different needs).
As for what will fit your car and what won't, I am not sure about that. I would need to do some research and see what i can find and go from there. But, I would feel pretty confident that something from another Duratec motor would bolt right up to the Jag. I think you are stepping into an area that most people have not ventured into. So, you may be breaking new ground with what you are attempting. I will do what I can to assist, but part of it is going to be trial and error and seeing what does and does not work. The key here is research and seeing what you can find and trying to cross-reference as much as you can. The data is out there. The question is whether you can find it or not.
As for what will fit your car and what won't, I am not sure about that. I would need to do some research and see what i can find and go from there. But, I would feel pretty confident that something from another Duratec motor would bolt right up to the Jag. I think you are stepping into an area that most people have not ventured into. So, you may be breaking new ground with what you are attempting. I will do what I can to assist, but part of it is going to be trial and error and seeing what does and does not work. The key here is research and seeing what you can find and trying to cross-reference as much as you can. The data is out there. The question is whether you can find it or not.
#11
07-09-2013, 04:47 AM
been doing some research and i have no idea of limitations to the car and how much i can put in but my "wants" are definitely pushing me to do some proper research before attempting upgrades.
Basically I will have 900 watt rms 5-channel amp which will be running 4speakers/tweeters and 2 subs in the rear shelf.
Then I will be running a 100 watt rms 2-channel amp to run 2 bass shakers underneath the front seats for some vibration
I will also have a 200 watt rms inverter which will be used to charge laptops
Then some extra cigarette lighter charger for front and rear and rear seat heaters.
Some extra screens which if all turned all will be draining 50 watts.
I guess I am adding around 1300 watts to my car if everything will be used. I have 120 Amp Alternator and Exide Edge AGM 94/R battery with following specs.
Voltage: 12
Capacity AH @ 20hr: 80 Ah
Cranking Amps: 960
Cold Cranking Amps: 800
Reserve Capacity: 140 minutes
Chemistry: AGM Size: L4/94R Length: 12 3/8 in. Width: 6 7/8 in. Height: 7 1/2 in. Weight: 53.3 lbs.
Now suppose car is using 60 Amps for it self, I will be needing 130 extra Amps to be running my equipment. I have a few options if I want to satisfy all my wants. What I want to know is what would be the best way to achieve that. I will be doing the big 3 anyway with 0 gauge wire but where the alternator and battery are concerned will they be able to produce my wants. If they don't I have 2 options; Either get a dual battery setup or upgrade alternator?
With regards to dual battery setup
Which amperage battery isolator shall I get?
Which battery isolator I should get?
Which second battery I should get?
With regards to alternator upgrade
By upgrading the alternator will it be able to provide me with the power that I need. I was quoted $300 for upgrading my alternator from 120 to 200 Amps at local alternator shop.
Basically I will have 900 watt rms 5-channel amp which will be running 4speakers/tweeters and 2 subs in the rear shelf.
Then I will be running a 100 watt rms 2-channel amp to run 2 bass shakers underneath the front seats for some vibration
I will also have a 200 watt rms inverter which will be used to charge laptops
Then some extra cigarette lighter charger for front and rear and rear seat heaters.
Some extra screens which if all turned all will be draining 50 watts.
I guess I am adding around 1300 watts to my car if everything will be used. I have 120 Amp Alternator and Exide Edge AGM 94/R battery with following specs.
Voltage: 12
Capacity AH @ 20hr: 80 Ah
Cranking Amps: 960
Cold Cranking Amps: 800
Reserve Capacity: 140 minutes
Chemistry: AGM Size: L4/94R Length: 12 3/8 in. Width: 6 7/8 in. Height: 7 1/2 in. Weight: 53.3 lbs.
Now suppose car is using 60 Amps for it self, I will be needing 130 extra Amps to be running my equipment. I have a few options if I want to satisfy all my wants. What I want to know is what would be the best way to achieve that. I will be doing the big 3 anyway with 0 gauge wire but where the alternator and battery are concerned will they be able to produce my wants. If they don't I have 2 options; Either get a dual battery setup or upgrade alternator?
With regards to dual battery setup
Which amperage battery isolator shall I get?
Which battery isolator I should get?
Which second battery I should get?
With regards to alternator upgrade
By upgrading the alternator will it be able to provide me with the power that I need. I was quoted $300 for upgrading my alternator from 120 to 200 Amps at local alternator shop.
Last edited by kashaf; 07-20-2013 at 07:36 PM.
#12
11-01-2013, 04:02 AM
ok so after learning a bit more about cars here goes....
I have put:
1 Gauge cable between the alternator and battery
1 Gauge Battery Grounding Cable
1 Gauge Cable between starter and Battery
I have 3 gauge solid copper wire running from main battery to trunk with a 80 amp battery isolator in between. I am using 50 amp circuit breaker auto resetting fuses between battery isolator and batteries
I have amazing deep cycle battery in the trunk weighs 100pounds :/
The rear heat seaters, the power inverter and amps will be running off that
I have put:
1 Gauge cable between the alternator and battery
1 Gauge Battery Grounding Cable
1 Gauge Cable between starter and Battery
I have 3 gauge solid copper wire running from main battery to trunk with a 80 amp battery isolator in between. I am using 50 amp circuit breaker auto resetting fuses between battery isolator and batteries
I have amazing deep cycle battery in the trunk weighs 100pounds :/
The rear heat seaters, the power inverter and amps will be running off that
Last edited by kashaf; 11-01-2013 at 04:35 AM.
#13
11-02-2013, 09:22 PM
In my experience, better grounding wires do make a big difference. I have installed "grounding kits" on 2 cars before. Both cars idled a lot smoother and quieter and had more torque. Just attach the thick ground cables to different locations to the engine and engine bay you'll notice a difference, especially as cars get older their grounding points become corroded. Anyways, I've found grounding wire kits really help, and you can find a decent set on ebay for under $30. I have never tried run a positive wire from the alternator to the battery though. This may be more for the stereo people. My experience has only been with negative grounding wires. I have attached them to the casing of the alternators though to ground them of any electrical static. Also, you might consider a voltage stabilizer, it's basically a condenser box that attaches to the battery to store power and serve as kind of a back up battery under heavy loads. Some come with additional grounding wires too so you get a grounding kit as well. They are mostly useful when you are using a lot of electrical components, stereo, ac, headlights, etc.
Last edited by 04xtype04; 11-02-2013 at 09:36 PM.
#14
04-23-2014, 09:13 AM
consider a voltage stabilizer when your batteries continue to go on the fritz
Available at Amazo (suited for stereo equipment):
US: Robot Check
UK : Amazon.co.uk: capacitor farad
Buy one with no more than 1 plus and 1 minus terminal that includes a self charging automation circuit.
US: Robot Check
UK : Amazon.co.uk: capacitor farad
Buy one with no more than 1 plus and 1 minus terminal that includes a self charging automation circuit.
Last edited by LeoJagger; 04-23-2014 at 09:17 AM.
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