Front courtesy lights console design flaw
#1
Front courtesy lights console design flaw
So let me preface this (going to be a long winded one), with, if it hasn't happened to yours yet, it will.
The driver's side map light button was always "wonkey" = not stable, but fiddling with it to get the desired "spring action" feel to actuate the light was bothersome, but not enough so to motivate looking in to it. I was changing bulbs to cool blue (bluish) LED's. Reversing one for polarity (?) to function. The buttons are always a little temperamental (push more than once to turn on or off). I got a bit frustrated wiggling the driver's map button and popped it with the back of my knuckles.
Well = no more "sweet spot" spring action feel to the button no matter how I manipulated it. So, out comes the console (sure you all know the cautionary warnings of remove from front sides = spring pressure clips, then slide toward windshield to avoid headliner damage from the plastic clips toward you/rear window, reversing to reinstall, toward you in first, then windshield last).
So here is what I found (if you haven't ever removed yours, do so if nothing explained here make sense). The exposed buttons have a white "post" on their underside, that when pressed, contacts a little bitty white button installed in the circuit board. Thus, the "spring" feeling. Well, how it is manufactured (laughed and peed myself a little at that) is this. The circuit board has a black nub or stud that has a little gray "collar or ring" on top of it creating a cylinder as you will. Into this cylinder is placed the little white actuator button that has pressure tabs around the outer edge. Thus, once installed, the button can not pop back out. The light button is an all molded (injected?) component of the entire plastic unit. It attaches to the rear (away from lens and under the white actuator button) to the housing body. How does it flex? HERE'S THE FIRST BITCH! In molding, they put what would be best described as a groove or channel, where the flat button comes "out" misnomer here it protrudes out of nowhere, to allow brittle not bending plastic to "flex" up. So stiff plastic, grooved to allow flex, HOW MANY ACCTUATIONS DOES TAKE TO FATIGUE AND SNAP? What an unbelievable design flaw. So as it snaps, and you fiddle around finding the "sweet spot" of the button post contacting the little white actuator button, this occures. It hits the gray "collar" that the white button is seated in. Scratching/scarring it until (as in my case, I popped it one), and breaks releasing the white actuator button.
NEXT BITCH = Under that white actuator button, inside the gray cylinder or collar is a piece of rubber about 1/3 the size of a match head. It's shaped like a miniature toilet plunger. The "handle" is toward the white actuator button, the "plunger" toward the circuit board. So the "spring" action felt on a good button, is not a spring at all, but a rubber "toilet plunger" creating vacuum to actuate some component of the circuit board. Thereby, explaining the times for more than one push on the button to achieve on/off. What moron dreamed this one up?
So, button breaks (design flaw), you live with it, finding the "sweet spot" to use it, damaging the underlying housing and when it breaks (mine was in 3 little pieces) you're screwed. Time for a new console.
Okay, Jaguar can't get you one, says they're discontinued (on my '06, it has a manufactured date one of '09, so I know it's occured with the previous owner). They referred me to Jagbits with a part number, found it after 3 days = $500.00 US. NOPE! On to eBay.
HERE IS THE NEXT BITCH AND CAUTIONARY WARNING! Even though everyone (vendors) say module fits all, they do not. Here is my assumption and if incorrect, please advise me. I learned by lucky coincidence the challenge. Only 1 Jaguar X in my state or surrounding relatively close 2 other States. Drove 1 1/2 hours to the salvage yard. The guy couldn't remove the console and fortunately didn't keep trying and break it. He let me go take it out. It was a bit older than my '06 (04?). The pin connector was entirely different than mine. It was larger, wider, more pins (24?), and mounted centered in circuit board side to side at the top nearest the lens and buttons. Mine has a smaller, more compact (20 pin) connector that attaches to a white housing mounted towards the rear and passenger side of the circuit board. Lucky I found this out.
So here is my assumption that could use expert input. Because mine has a manufactured date of '09, so was obviously replaced, I believe the dealer rewired the connector for this year component (as it makes just no sense there would be different module in the same year).
Second = has anyone found an adhesive that would glue the button plastic slat looking piece back to the housing? And if so, how would the now, normal thickness (no groove) plastic flex to enable stud/white button, toilet plunger action and not break the glue seal or worse the button flat paddle piece in another place?
Got replacement today (eBay, $65.00 with shipping)], guess what, second push of map button, button broke, found "sweet spot", doesn't work. FRAK! Vendor replacing, but holy **** what a P.O.S. this component is! And included was a separate clear lens as mine has, installed one was more milky white. I took mine out to see how it could be changed and I see no way it could be accomplished. It appears to me that the bezel of either champagne (mine) or gray has the lens placed, then the circuit board over that with the light buttons through the holes, then the circuit board is hot plastic stud welder in place. I see no way to get the lens out closest to the circuit board without damaging the circuit board or the bezel. There is not enough clearance to get it out, and no way I could see to loosen the circuit board for a bit of space. Any experts on this quandary?
Oh well. Onward and upward. Thanks if you made through to here.
The driver's side map light button was always "wonkey" = not stable, but fiddling with it to get the desired "spring action" feel to actuate the light was bothersome, but not enough so to motivate looking in to it. I was changing bulbs to cool blue (bluish) LED's. Reversing one for polarity (?) to function. The buttons are always a little temperamental (push more than once to turn on or off). I got a bit frustrated wiggling the driver's map button and popped it with the back of my knuckles.
Well = no more "sweet spot" spring action feel to the button no matter how I manipulated it. So, out comes the console (sure you all know the cautionary warnings of remove from front sides = spring pressure clips, then slide toward windshield to avoid headliner damage from the plastic clips toward you/rear window, reversing to reinstall, toward you in first, then windshield last).
So here is what I found (if you haven't ever removed yours, do so if nothing explained here make sense). The exposed buttons have a white "post" on their underside, that when pressed, contacts a little bitty white button installed in the circuit board. Thus, the "spring" feeling. Well, how it is manufactured (laughed and peed myself a little at that) is this. The circuit board has a black nub or stud that has a little gray "collar or ring" on top of it creating a cylinder as you will. Into this cylinder is placed the little white actuator button that has pressure tabs around the outer edge. Thus, once installed, the button can not pop back out. The light button is an all molded (injected?) component of the entire plastic unit. It attaches to the rear (away from lens and under the white actuator button) to the housing body. How does it flex? HERE'S THE FIRST BITCH! In molding, they put what would be best described as a groove or channel, where the flat button comes "out" misnomer here it protrudes out of nowhere, to allow brittle not bending plastic to "flex" up. So stiff plastic, grooved to allow flex, HOW MANY ACCTUATIONS DOES TAKE TO FATIGUE AND SNAP? What an unbelievable design flaw. So as it snaps, and you fiddle around finding the "sweet spot" of the button post contacting the little white actuator button, this occures. It hits the gray "collar" that the white button is seated in. Scratching/scarring it until (as in my case, I popped it one), and breaks releasing the white actuator button.
NEXT BITCH = Under that white actuator button, inside the gray cylinder or collar is a piece of rubber about 1/3 the size of a match head. It's shaped like a miniature toilet plunger. The "handle" is toward the white actuator button, the "plunger" toward the circuit board. So the "spring" action felt on a good button, is not a spring at all, but a rubber "toilet plunger" creating vacuum to actuate some component of the circuit board. Thereby, explaining the times for more than one push on the button to achieve on/off. What moron dreamed this one up?
So, button breaks (design flaw), you live with it, finding the "sweet spot" to use it, damaging the underlying housing and when it breaks (mine was in 3 little pieces) you're screwed. Time for a new console.
Okay, Jaguar can't get you one, says they're discontinued (on my '06, it has a manufactured date one of '09, so I know it's occured with the previous owner). They referred me to Jagbits with a part number, found it after 3 days = $500.00 US. NOPE! On to eBay.
HERE IS THE NEXT BITCH AND CAUTIONARY WARNING! Even though everyone (vendors) say module fits all, they do not. Here is my assumption and if incorrect, please advise me. I learned by lucky coincidence the challenge. Only 1 Jaguar X in my state or surrounding relatively close 2 other States. Drove 1 1/2 hours to the salvage yard. The guy couldn't remove the console and fortunately didn't keep trying and break it. He let me go take it out. It was a bit older than my '06 (04?). The pin connector was entirely different than mine. It was larger, wider, more pins (24?), and mounted centered in circuit board side to side at the top nearest the lens and buttons. Mine has a smaller, more compact (20 pin) connector that attaches to a white housing mounted towards the rear and passenger side of the circuit board. Lucky I found this out.
So here is my assumption that could use expert input. Because mine has a manufactured date of '09, so was obviously replaced, I believe the dealer rewired the connector for this year component (as it makes just no sense there would be different module in the same year).
Second = has anyone found an adhesive that would glue the button plastic slat looking piece back to the housing? And if so, how would the now, normal thickness (no groove) plastic flex to enable stud/white button, toilet plunger action and not break the glue seal or worse the button flat paddle piece in another place?
Got replacement today (eBay, $65.00 with shipping)], guess what, second push of map button, button broke, found "sweet spot", doesn't work. FRAK! Vendor replacing, but holy **** what a P.O.S. this component is! And included was a separate clear lens as mine has, installed one was more milky white. I took mine out to see how it could be changed and I see no way it could be accomplished. It appears to me that the bezel of either champagne (mine) or gray has the lens placed, then the circuit board over that with the light buttons through the holes, then the circuit board is hot plastic stud welder in place. I see no way to get the lens out closest to the circuit board without damaging the circuit board or the bezel. There is not enough clearance to get it out, and no way I could see to loosen the circuit board for a bit of space. Any experts on this quandary?
Oh well. Onward and upward. Thanks if you made through to here.
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Brit57 (03-30-2017)
#3
I didn't have your issue, but I had to rebuild one of the lamp sockets in mine. Pushed a replacement light in mine and the socket contacts broke off. The passenger map light button is a little fiddly to turn it off or on, but I am very careful not to push it very hard. The whole console is a delicate piece to say the least.
If you want to check out my issue click here.
If you want to check out my issue click here.
Last edited by hlgeorge; 03-26-2017 at 05:12 PM.
#4
Nightmare. My front light switches had obviously been dismantled for this very reason. One used console bought on Ebay to 'fix' the light switches and they now won't turn off. Middle light is fine. It is the 2 map lights either side. We will just remove the bulbs. The engineers on these jags were taking the ****. Yesterday I actually spotted my first XJ8 on the road here in Houston after owning this car for last 6 months. There is obviously a good reason for this. Surely Jaguar has learned the lessons from the American car industry of 70s where they produced dogs and Japs took over. If I had $100K to spend on a car it wouldn't be a jag.
#5
I have a similar button problem and the dealer wants over $1,000 to replace the console. So like you I went on ebay and could only find the console in your left photo. I have the one in the right photo with the white connector on the side. The date on my console is Aug of 02 and my X-type is an '05 built in February. What did you ever end up doing for a fix? Sounds like if I ever find a proper replacement on ebay that it's most likely to have the same issue.
#6
the buttons use a domed metal spring that is deformed by the button thats why it feels a snap as the dome is compressed, its the same method used for the key fob buttons but larger. the button can be replaced on the pcb after you melt the plastic fixing rivet. it may be a poor design but is used in large numbers of consumer electronics .
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Wicket (11-26-2018)
#7
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#9
My fix for the third time just a couple of months ago was I contacted member Dr. Dome and sent him a picture of my electronic hook up type (found out discussing with him there are actually 3 types of connectors). Asked him to keep an eye out for the correct color (champagne) & correct feed. About a month and a half or so later, he texted me back he had found one. Reasonable price, so I just bought it and replaced it again.
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Wicket (11-26-2018)
#10
#11
I bet Ford hired a bunch of retired/out-of-work Lucas engineers to design it.. You can tell it wasn't designed by Jaguar as you didn't have to remove the windscreen/windshield to replace it.
My apologies for making "light" (no pun intended) of this situation, Having owned a 1964 S-Type, a couple of XJS (V-12) cars, a couple of XJ40 XJ6's, and a '95 XJR..
My wife and I have decided to find the "niggles" (present and future) in our recently purchased X-Type "Charming".. (for sake of my sanity).
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Wicket (11-26-2018)
#12
Poorly designed dome light switch
the buttons use a domed metal spring that is deformed by the button thats why it feels a snap as the dome is compressed, its the same method used for the key fob buttons but larger. the button can be replaced on the pcb after you melt the plastic fixing rivet. it may be a poor design but is used in large numbers of consumer electronics .
If so, where does one find the microswitch?
#13
Trust me, that is not how they are constructed. I tore mine apart and the description I posted in the initial post is how they are constructed with the dumb *** "rubber toilet plunger" encased in the cylinder creating a suction to initiate the circuit board. There is NO domed metal spring.
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Wicket (11-27-2018)
#14
Trust me, that is not how they are constructed. I tore mine apart and the description I posted in the initial post is how they are constructed with the dumb *** "rubber toilet plunger" encased in the cylinder creating a suction to initiate the circuit board. There is NO domed metal spring.
Half of the so-called "Upgrades" that you made to your X-Type (that you listed in your signature) would have probably voided the Jaguar warranty from the start.
You rant about "There is NO domed metal spring"... Google Jaguar dual-pass radiator and Barrs Stop-leak...
Reality Check Time: Quit gripping! though it's actually hilarious/humorous to most car enthusiasts; to be perfectly honest most of us Jaguar owners find your rant.. rather boring,,
"Sweet-spot".. The only time that I've heard that termed used is in relation to a tennis racquet...
""Firefly" Lighted Valve Stems"? I had to Google them to what they are... LOL!
I'm not a "purist" by any stretch of the imagination, though the wholesale molestation of legendary automobile marques by people that are electrical/mechanical ignorant...
Last edited by ThriceBitten; 11-27-2018 at 01:11 AM.
#16
My user name on jag-lovers (org) is blown kitty (owing to my once ownership of a XJR6). I've been a member and contributor there since 2008.. would you like to discuss my BMW or Mercedes credentials...
Post count? Really?
So I gain credibility (in your opinion) by how many posts I've made on this forum?
Maybe you missed it... Jaguars that I've owned:
" a 1964 S-Type, a couple of XJS (V-12) cars, a couple of XJ40 XJ6's, and a '95 XJR." and presently a 2008 3.0 X-Type.
and you Sir?
Post count? Really?
So I gain credibility (in your opinion) by how many posts I've made on this forum?
Maybe you missed it... Jaguars that I've owned:
" a 1964 S-Type, a couple of XJS (V-12) cars, a couple of XJ40 XJ6's, and a '95 XJR." and presently a 2008 3.0 X-Type.
and you Sir?
Last edited by ThriceBitten; 11-27-2018 at 11:46 AM.
#17
Poorly designed dome light switch
Trust me, that is not how they are constructed. I tore mine apart and the description I posted in the initial post is how they are constructed with the dumb *** "rubber toilet plunger" encased in the cylinder creating a suction to initiate the circuit board. There is NO domed metal spring.
Yes, a design flaw. I can't recall one older vehicle that that I've ever driven or owned where such a simple component has failed across the board. (Pun intended!)
#18
@Wicket, not that I am aware of. I've researched the heck out of this "charming niggle", and the only solution is replacement of the console. New ones are right at $1,000 U.S. And that's if you can find one (Jagbits took 3 days to find one and get back to me with price and availability). Thus the escalating difficulties in finding good used ones with the correct electronics and your color.
I would suggest you contact Dr. Dome, member here as he is a wealth of knowledge and parts out X's.
I would suggest you contact Dr. Dome, member here as he is a wealth of knowledge and parts out X's.
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Wicket (11-30-2018)
#19
My sincere apologies to Dell for my previous snarky comments towards him.
I'll be going down to visit a few auto wreckers this weekend to grab a few small parts for one of my cars. I visited a "pick your part" self-service yard last weekend that had 5 or 6 X-Types (I picked up a RH rear side-marker lamp for $5.00), I'll grab one of these X-Type overhead consoles, it should cost about $20 from the pick-a part yard
Though Dell's written description of the flaw is very detailed, by having a test mule to be able to analyse (dissect) in my hands maybe I'll be able to come up with a fix.
I'll be going down to visit a few auto wreckers this weekend to grab a few small parts for one of my cars. I visited a "pick your part" self-service yard last weekend that had 5 or 6 X-Types (I picked up a RH rear side-marker lamp for $5.00), I'll grab one of these X-Type overhead consoles, it should cost about $20 from the pick-a part yard
Though Dell's written description of the flaw is very detailed, by having a test mule to be able to analyse (dissect) in my hands maybe I'll be able to come up with a fix.
The following users liked this post:
Wicket (11-30-2018)
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