Hello enthusiasts!

Some of you have been offering your feedback to help me troubleshoot my issue over the last few months, but it simply came down to waiting for the codes. Well, I've got them. Now I need your help narrowing down the most common or likely issue/resolution.

It little recap, I recently (May) had my car tuned up for the 90K tune up. Afterward my car was running, oddly I suppose, and at times it would buck or sputter or misfire under a load. especially uphill. It was infrequent in severity and at times it would be noticeable and other times it would be ever so slight. I took it to two shops, including the one that did the tune up, and neither could figure out the cause or a solution without beginning to just replace things. It was suggested it might be the plugs, but I confirmed the replaced plugs were NGK Iridiums. I've speculated it was OS sensors, IMT gaskets, MAF, MAP, Coils, Plenum Gaskets, Cats, Injectors, Fuel Filter.

What I know now: this morning it would not stop sputtering and missing throughout all gears. It seemed to be antagonized by putting it into gear vs. neutral although if I gave it gas in neutral it would be rough. On my 6 mile venture to work my CEL flashed repeatedly until I came to a stop light and it didn't do it again. I never got a Gearbox Fault or steady CEL light so I grabbed my phone and checked my OBDII and I was getting Pending Trouble Codes P1111, P1313, P1316, and P0305. They're Pending and not Confirmed, but they're a start.

I've done the research and I know what each code means.
P1111 - Everything checked out and the OBD ran a complete check.
P0305 - Misfire on Cylinder 5
P1313 - Misfire Rate Catalyst Damage - only flags this DTC when their is an individual cylinder misfire.
P1316 - Misfire Excessive Emission - only flags this DTC when their is an individual cylinder misfire.

So the question I have is, is it pretty definitive that my plugs or coils are the culprit. Since my plugs are new with less than 5K on them is it more suitable to guess the coil(s) need replacing? I could swap out coil 5 for coil 1,2,3,4, or 6 to see if i get a code on a different cylinder, but I don't live in a place where popping the hood and dismantling things is convenient nor met with cheers and jeers (I need to move). So my mechanical prowess is severely limited, plus it's my primary means of transportation so I can't have it all apart for 2 or 3 days. Tell me what I'm not considering that could still cause a same/similar problem.

I've been proactive and purchased Coils, MAF, MAP, IMT seals, Crankcase Sensors, Camshaft Sensor, Plenum Gaskets, Breather Hose, I missed something..... but like I said there is no way for me to start disconnecting things under the hood unless I find an undisturbed parking lot and have a back up ride to and from the parts shop.

 

Sure sounds like swapping the coil out is a simple way to at least start the process and probably the most likely. Something you would want to try pretty quick. You keep driving long enough with a misfire like that and it could only causes more issues.

Good luck. Hope you find a spot to get some troubleshooting done soon.

 

ugotmale, I would start with swapping #3 and #5 coils and seeing what you got. But, I am placing money that what you will find is that when you pull the coil for #5 cylinder, you are going to find some oil in the well and that is what is causing your problems.

 

I have an appointment for Monday to have the coils replaced and I asked them to check for oil in the wells again. They said they check for those things when replacing plugs and will take another look. It's interesting though, the Pending codes have disappeared and the only one left is P1111. I don't have the constant misfiring happening either. Now I'm worried it isn't the coil.

 

ugotmale, not to ask a silly question, but did you buy gas recently from a station that you normally don't buy from? did you get gas from a little station and not a "big store" station? It may be possible that if you put in some gas that was "bad", it could cause the motor to run a little goofey and result in what you were seeing and then with some more gas being added to the tank, you added enough good to let the engine get back to where it needed to be.

P.S On a side note, it is looking like I will be in Bremerton from around 17 December to 30 December.

 

No question is silly. I'm beginning to feel silly like I'm harping on the same issue just in different posts! As for your question I was thinking the exact same thing when it happened and I was wondering if I got bad gas too. But, I switched from Arco/Shell Premium to Costco Premium when I noticed this little issue started developing a few months back. I used to get Premium gas from Arco or Shell all the time and never had any issues until right before the tune up. Once I noticed it was actually bucking and slightly misfiring I changed to filling up at Costco and the behavior has been the same. When I set up the appointment for the tune up I intentionally asked to have the plugs replaced thinking it would solve the subtle jolt/misfire that was occurring. I figured the plugs were just due for replacement, but it seems to have gotten worse after the plug replacement and tune up. I've even double checked to make sure they gaped the plugs properly. This infrequent misfire has been going on for so many months I'm kind of hopeful that it's finally coming to the surface.

I drove from Seattle to Mt. Rainier 2 weeks ago and did the whole trip around the mountain and I never got a misfire or any bucking until I was 3/4 the way around the mountain. I was uphill and downhill the entire trip and it didn't decide to act up until 3/4 of the way as I was going uphill. It's so sporadic it's frustrating. This is literally the first time its spit and sputtered for such an extended period. Long enough to get any codes and long enough to think maybe it was water in the gas or something, but I've still got the same gas in there and no consistent issue anymore. Could it be a fuel pump? Fuel filter was replaced and my pressure is about 50psi, so no real indication it would be the pump. Crazy question - Could the gas cap not be tightening up enough and causing issue? I feel like I'm reaching for solutions.

Sorry to be so wordy, I do appreciate the feedback and help/advice. I'm just to the point that I don't want to drive anywhere because I'm worried it'll just crap out. I'm going to replace the coils and then if it keeps happening I'm going to do the O2 sensors next. After that injector cleaner. From there I'm gonna be back on here asking for more ideas....! 1 question though, would all four O2 sensors need to be replaced or are just two primarily the most important? And then, if so, which two?

 

Bremerton in December huh? It'll be cold, hopefully I won't be knocking on your door asking for your expertise or "show how", but on the other hand I can't promise I won't be trying to pick your brain! I could use the walk through in replacing the Tranny and TC fluids.

 

ugot, I would be looking at the rubber boot on the coil to make sure that is in good condition. It is possible that is wiggling around and occassionally will move just enough that the spark will jump through the rubber boot and to the block vice the plug. It may be possible that you have a bad fuel injector. if you look on Youtube, they have how to's on how to clean your own fuel injectors. I would also do a good detailed inspection of the wiring right around cylinder 5 to see if any of the wiring makes a funny direction change or is damaged slightly.

As for Bremerton being cold. BAH!!!!! I lived in Bremerton for 12 years. I know exactly how cold it gets. It is still much warmer than here in Maryland. I think I will be fine. I wonder if I could rent a jag while there. I'm sure there is some place around Seatac that would do that sort of thing. He he he he he.

 

The good news is that all 6 coils were replaced, the IMT gaskets replaced, the plenum gaskets replaced (again), there was no oil in the plug cylinders, and no visible damage to the old coils. The car runs noticeably better and feels like there is more power at the peddle.

The bad news, I was going through the drive through last night and it lurched forward slightly as I approached the window. So it appears my issue isn't resolved........

When this happens, if i have the brake fully pressed it feels like I got bumped in the rear end. If I have my foot off the brake it'll pop forward a bit.

I can't find any vacuum leaks anywhere and I've checked for that about 6 times. The breather hose is new too. I have a MAP sensor and MAF sensor that I'm switching out tonight, but I don't imagine those are causing this, and then checking the injectors as Thermo suggested. Next up O2 sensors. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

Hmmm...surge increases power? Check your crankshaft sensor.

Not coincidentally one of the few things you haven't replaced yet...

 

Interesting that you should mention this....... an observation noted during the tune up and inspection was that my Crankshaft sensor and seal was seeping.

In a previous post I asked about whether the Crankshaft sensor or Camshaft sensors could be a cause of the problem, but I never mentioned that the mechanic noted my Crankshaft sensor and seal was seeping. A hindsight moment for sure.....

I purchased both sensors (Cams and Crank) off RockAuto a few weeks ago as part of my troubleshooting list of items to replace. Any idea what is involved in replacing the sensor? Is it easy like the MAF or MAP sensors, or complex like the O2 sensor by the firewall?

 

ugotmale, the crankshaft sensor is pretty straight forward and I seem to recall people saying it took them about a half hour to do. As for the camshaft sensors, I would need to look again, but those may be a bit more painful. But, shouldn't be all that bad. take it slow and steady and keep pushing ahead.

 

Quick question. I'm replacing the Crankcase Sensor and Cam Sensors on Saturday - a do-it-myself job - and I want to double check on what the deal is with timing? Assuming all the points line up on the cam gear and crank, if what I've read is correct then i can just take the old sensors out and put the new ones in. The sensors will communicate the rotation and position of the cams and crank to the ECU which will electronically adjust the timing and spark as well as communicate to the TCM. Is this essentially the gist of it or is there some sort of timing I need to think about, like ignition timing or something ?

 

ugotmale, you are mixing a few things together. I can't speak specifically about the X-Type, but the Ford engines I am familiar with, you can't install the sensors and mess up the signal to the computer short of destroying the sensor or forgetting to plug it in. For the crankshaft sensor for example, you have a 36 -1 gear (aka, a 35 tooth gear with the teeth spaced out like there are 36 teeth, but one of the teeth has been completely removed, so you have a gap). This gap is in a defined spot in relation to the timing of the engine (normally where the vehicle sees top deal center on cylinder #1 as I recall). So, the computer counts the teeth as they go by the sensor (through a hall effect, or more simply, very similar to how the alternator works for your car if that means anything) and when it sees the missing tooth, it knows that the engine is at TDC on #1 cylinder. From there, it can count 6 teeth and know that the next cylinder is at TDC and it is time to fire that cylinder, count another 6 teeth and fire ....... As for the specific time that the ECU (not TCM) causes the spark to occur is up to the computer counting the teeth and then estimating when it should fire the cylinder and then looking at the knock sensor to see if the spark was too early. So, if the car can advance the timing, it may be counting only 5 teeth, waiting a fraction of the second and then firing before it sees the 6th tooth. If it is needing to retard the timing, it will count the 6 teeth and then wait that fraction of a second longer to make the cylinder fire later. We are talking in degrees of rotation here. So, we are talking about the car trying to figure out the timing based on the engine going through 216000 degrees of rotation every second at idle and more if you rev the engine. So, it is looking at things very quickly and for the lack of a better word guessing where the timing should be. That is where it is firing each cylinder at about the same time in relation to the others and then looking at the knock sensor to determine if it can advance the timing more (ie, the knock sensor isn't detecting a knock) or if it needs to retard the timing a little bit from where it currently is because it is seeing knock. Keep in mind that most modern day cars run on an "edge" in that the computer is looking for a very minor knock to occur so it knows it is got the timing advanced as far as it can without being detrimental to the engine.

As for the camshaft sensors, these are even more simple than the crankshaft sensor. For these, there is a single "lump" on the gear. As this "lump" moves past the sensor, the sensor sees the lump and sends a signal to the computer to say "the camshaft is in its designated position right now". The computer uses this as a back up to the crankshaft sensor (should it fail completely). If I remember right, the "lump" is also associated with #1 cylinder being at TDC. So, much like the crankshaft sensor, the computer can figure out where the engine is in its rotation (but in this case, it only knows for a moment where the engine is) and then it is calculating that it needs to then fire the rest of the cylinders at a given time interval based on the engine RPM. It then again looks at the knock sensor and is trying ot figure out if the timing is too advanced or needs to be advanced.

Do not worry about the sensors. As long as you don't cross wires or something where you really have to fight to do something silly, you are not going to mess things up. With that being say, playing with something like the VVT solenoids, now you are into a different area and that is a bit more sensitive to proper placement.

 

Thanks Thermo! We'll see where I'm at after tomorrow.

 

Oh, for the the love of god! So, not shockingly I had problems today with the Jag. I'm with holding all the 4 letter words I can think of.... I planned to change the Crank and Cam Sensors today, but I was held up at work until 6:30pm. So that'll happen tomorrow.

In the meantime, I left work for an hour today and when I got back in my car to head back to the grind the idle was absolutely terrible. It was sloppy and rough. The RPMs didn't jump a lot, but the engine was noticeably out of sync somehow. If I gave it gas it would act flooded and bog down, I guess it would feel like it was going to stall. When i say out of sync it almost felt like the Cylinders were firing out of order and/or one wasn't firing. I would even say it felt like maybe there was premature ignition, like one of the cylinders were firing too soon and out of sync before the piston was at TDC. I can only hope this behavior is an obvious indication that the Crank Sensor failed, ha ha ha. But i don't have a crank sensor code indication..... I tried to drive it around to get a MIL light or codes and viola I did. NOW, the codes show:

P0302 - Cylinder 2 misfire
P1314 - No Definition, but apparently coil related
P1316 - No Definition, but apparently coil related
P0352 - Ignition Coil "B" Primary Control Circuit Open

Mind you the previous codes were indicating that there was a misfire on cylinder 5, That was before I took it down to have the coils replaced.

As I mention I just had the coils replaced, although the coils I purchased as replacements were Airtex/Wells. Are these ****? Are they complete ****??! I kept the old coils in case replacing them didn't rectify my drive ability issue. So I at least have those as back up to pop back on in place of 1 of the 6.

I can't accelerate over about 3000 rpms without the car bucking or all power dropping off. I noticed the advance timing for Cylinder #1 is all over the place at idle. Anywhere from 6 degree all the way up to 68 degrees. I also hear what sounds like a lifter knock. This wasn't there before, although I'm assuming it is related to the idle and driving issue that developed. I'm not getting a code related to the CAT or O2 sensors. Again, this all developed after the tune up. So it has to be related to something that changed upon tuning it up. I know everything is speculative, but I need ideas. I've replaced every "known" common problem and it seems each time I do the problem gets worse. That could very well be a good thing. I'm at least getting codes. No limp mode, just the MIL light and constant misfiring.

Two other things I noticed, if I manually shifted while getting it where i needed to to work on it tomorrow it seemed to respond better and less restrictive. However there was no way I was getting over 3000 rpms. The other thing I noticed is up until today, if I was on the freeway or driving around at 40ish mph or faster I would noticed a zero gravity type feeling. Best way I can describe it is as if you are on a boat and a wave goes by and the boat feels a little euphoric, or sitting in a room and a tremor rolls by. You get that brief sense of weightlessness but it doesn't last. No I wasn't high, even though it's legal in Washington. I just like my Whiskey from time to time. It's just really odd to be cruising around at a constant speed and feel that subtle response and it go away. Makes you stop and go, "did I feel that?"

Please, share advice and opinions. I'LL DO ANYTHING! Hell, do I have more than one thing going on here??? I regret doing a tune up..............

Check list:
IMT's - replaced
MAF - replaced
MAP - replaced
Upper Plenum's - replaced
Plugs - replaced (NGK laser iridiums likely gapped at 0.50 or 0.52)
Coils - replaced - (used Airtex/Wells)
PCV Hose - replaced
Vacuum leaks - checked (no smoke test though)
Throttle Body - replaced
Pedal Assembly - replaced
Air filter - replaced
Fuel Filter - replaced
Fuel Pump - operating at 50psi
Tree air freshener - replaced (kidding)

This has got to be something simple, yet causing me to go gray at 34.

 

Can/could dielectric grease damage the coils or cause coil failure?

 

ugotmale, keep in mind that there are 2 kinds of dielectric grease. YOu have the insulative kind and you have the conductive kind. If you have the insulative kind, then all is good as it is doing nothing more than keeping water out of the boot area. If you have the conductive kind, that can create some major heartaches as it can short the spark right away from the cylinder.

 

Replaced the sensors and took it for a spin. Drove pretty well for about 15min and then it went back to not operating over 3000rpm and a constant misfire. Decided to dig into all of it again. Took off the manifold, took off the coils, took out the plugs. Went down to the parts shop and bought new plugs and a gap tool (granted the plugs in there are fairly new, but i have no idea if any of them fouled). Bought NGK Laser Iridium plugs and made sure each was gaped at .052ish as indicated by NGK and then put the new ones in. Checked all the wiring for frays and burnt or damaged wires. Everything was fine. I taped up a few wires in the harness where the tape had gotten brittle. Nothing out of sorts or damaged. Replaced the plenum gaskets again, probably could have reused the ones in there. Put the manifold back on, bolted it down, plugged everything back in like the MAF and the TPS etc.... started it up and drove it. Started acting up again. Indicated Cylinder 2 misfire and the P0352 code again. Removed the new Airtex coil on #2 and put one of my old Denso coils on there. Started it up and it drove for about 30min, maybe 10 miles, without any issues and easily went above 3000 RPMs. Apparently a bad coil on #2. Fingers crossed that is solved.

As for the under-power and missing or subtle sputter uphill and/or under a load. It's still there. So I'll keep pushing forward till something comes to light.

 

hi

Did that finally solve it - I have a similar on going issue hence the question ?

Thanks

Rodney