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Ok, when the tow truck drive came today and tried to start my car, he said a belt had probably borke (i think he said the timing belt). It did not break while driving. The car sat for 2 days, and when i went to start it up, it just spun. How big of a bill am i looking at for this one?
If it was indeed flooded you most likely still have a problem. Did the service manager say they checked the injectors for leaks? Fuel injected engines don't flood for no reason (it's also rare), there is always a cause. I'm surprised a shop would just blow it off unless they were lying or guessing.
No, he said it had flooded and they took it for a test drive and it was just fine. He said that short trips all the time may eventually cause it to flood. I may have also put my foot on the accelerator instead of brake. I could swear it was on the brake, but you never know (crazier things have happened). When my dad drove the car he accidently pushed the accelerator once while starting it and it flooded. This is the normal dealership i go through normally, and he gave me no reason to be alarmed. He said the car didn’t have any trouble codes either. Are you concerned about something? It hasn't ever flooded except for a time like I mentioned earlier maybe 60K miles. Not it has about 125K.
dude, as long as you type like a 'xxxx and act like a 'xxxx, they are going to treat you like a 'xxxx.
Flooded does not really exist these days, it is a term from the old days of carburettors. There is no magic to a modern fuel injected engine not starting.
It needs proper fuel, proper spark, proper compression etc.....
when it does not start, there is something wrong. It is not from the way you drive or from the way you touch the pedals....
the engineers have already imagined all the xxxx ways you can try to mess it up, and they program against it!
Last edited by Translator; 03-22-2011 at 03:58 AM.
Reason: abusive language removed
Ok, well I'm sorry my car knowledge isn't quite up to par with your infinite understanding, but that's why i pay a dealership to service my car. Smart people ask questions, and I ask questions when I don't know. I am simply stating what I was told by the service manager at the dealer. I searched the forum, and there was another x-type that had a flooded engine (same symptoms as mine) in 2009. Thermo commented, you can go check. The car is driving fine now, and isn't showing any signs of problems. I appreciate your 'car knowledge' but feel as if you could take a better approach. Calling me a 'xxxx' is inappropriate at best. Thanks to everyone who has commented to help! If ou have any suggestions or opinions let me know. Thanks!
Last edited by Translator; 03-22-2011 at 03:59 AM.
Reason: quote removed
As for not being able to flood an injected engine, an aborted or not quite completed start procedure and then an immediate re crank can in my experience cause all the symptoms of a carb flooded engine, with the much commented general advice being to hold the accelerator to the floor to shut off fuel and crank for 30-40 seconds to clear excess fuel and then release pedal for starting.
Others with more experience of X Types can be more specific.
As for typing and language skills not to mention mechanical aptitude, we are not here to judge.
A reminder that abusive name calling is not accepted around here.
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This is a WRITTEN forum, typing and language are absolutly critical to getting good information.
I am surprised that there is any other reaction besides humour to saying 'tard. It is not meant to be harmful in anyway, and for younger guys it is common bantor. Dont pretend to be offended, just cuz i was being funny at your expense.
Anyway, I am tired of me, and seeing others, use this forum for questions that are so basic that they are either in the owners manual, or easily found via Google.
I like the exchange of information to be fun, interesting, and helpful.
If I am the one to shock you into looking harder for yourself to learn how things work, then I will consider it a success! I promise I will no be mean and then go away.... I am in it for the long haul. I share my knowledge freely and openly.
Is there a list of acceptable words I can use?
I am sure that dummy is too shocking for you all, may I say chav?, big boy?,
lets keep it real guys, we all hear the bad words daily, and it is just absurd to deny their use in a forum talking about broken cars! Have you ever hung out with car mechanics? What do you think their daily chit chat is like?
He said that short trips all the time may eventually cause it to flood. I may have also put my foot on the accelerator instead of brake. I could swear it was on the brake, but you never know (crazier things have happened).
That's not correct information on the dealers part. An engine does not "flood" from short trips. If may foul plugs sooner, require oil changes sooner, and go through exhaust systems faster... But short trips don't cause flooding.
I think you'd know whether your foot was on the brake or gas pedal. The dealer probably put that thought into your head and now somehow you believe it may be possible. Bet they told you "it happens all the time". Well, it doesn't (unless you're 80 years old and haven't driven a car in 30 years). Just another clue they might be duping you.
The thing is, most flooding for FI cars is from leaking injectors or even more rare is an ECM problem. It's not something solved by just driving the car. A leaking injector needs to be replaced or the problem will persist and worsen.
I don't want to rag too much on the dealer yet because I wasn't there. Maybe the car started fine and they just want to wait to see if it happens again before spending your money and THAT'S great. I just don't like the excuse they used. I also hope they didn't charge you. If they did, then make sure they apply that money to the real fix if you have to go back.
As for the "name calling", I have to agree I don't think the thread deteriorated far enough to come to that. I think it was banter pure and simple but it's a tough call when you don't have past experience with a member to know if you'll get away with it. As a mod on another car site, I know how difficult it can be to try to read into things. Mods aren't just looking at it from the views of the members involved in an exchange, they also have to consider how a new lurker might perceive things. The last thing you want to do is scare off posts from new members because they're afraid of getting jumped. That's why it's always smart to use a smiley when you're joking around or being sarcastic. There's also much to be said about making a car site too sterile too.
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Thanks c5pilot. The dealer did not charge me for whatever they did to the car. I am keeping a close eye on the car and any new sounds etc. Hopefully no issues will occur in the future. If anything does happen in the future, I will keep this thread updated.
C5, actually it is still a common occurance to flood a jaguar. not on the newer, but on the 97-03 4.0 V8's and some of the 4.2's occassionally. I think the term short trips is from what Ive seen is a customer tells me "I started the car, pulled out of the garage, shut off, went inside for a minute and when I went to restart it just turned over without firing" This issue is more along the lines of the car went through a cold start, with rich fueling and higher idle. Never came close to warming up and then on restart flooded the plugs" But my experiance over the years on this issue with Jaguar is 2 fold
1) the intake valves get carbon deposits and buildup( I dont care what gas you say you use etc, I have opened many a engine to see buildup on the intake valves) yes some are worse than others. What happens is on start you have an injector spray the back of the intake valve, the depostis being useally dry absorb the fuel, then drip fuel off. We all know a fine spray is easier to combust. Most of the time it fires fine without much applause, but occasionally it wets the sparks plugs and then they dont fire. then you continue cranking the enhine and fuel wash the cylinder wals down of the oil film the "LOW TENSION" rings that Jaguar uses and you have little to no compression. No spark, no compression = no start. I can useally get a flooded car started with like translator said hold the pedal to the floor before starting and the injectors are shut off. Crank the engine to clear and then with a judicouse gas pedal use I can almost always start them. Ocassionally I have to pull half the plug, dry them and squirt oil in the cylinders to restore oil film to the cylinder walls and therefore compression. The fix is normally clean the throttle body, the part load breather, and induction and injection cleaning with onboard cleaning running the engine on the cleaner. I like BG for this as I have pulled intake to look at the before and after and youre talking night and day clean. Also Yes flooding is pretty well gone with fuel injection but with the right circumstances it does still happen which is why I guess the engineers program n "clear flood" control to the start circuit programming
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C5, actually it is still a common occurance to flood a jaguar. not on the newer, but on the 97-03 4.0 V8's and some of the 4.2's occassionally.
1) the intake valves get carbon deposits and buildup...
Using your definition of a "short trip" I'd be more inclined to believe it. However, I still don't think it's a matter of just pulling the car out of the garage, it would have to be more like the car started and you immediately shut it off.
Which brings us to the carbon build up. Carbon deposits are not "normal" in the sense it shouldn't happen under normal operating conditions. If carbon is building on the valves there is an abnormal physical condition with the engine. It's not fixed by flooring the gas and cranking or with a test drive. The problem still exists and needs to be addressed. In this case I would check with Jag to see if there is an additive they recommend to help dissolve carbon that won't harm other components.
The point being, the OP's problem is probably not solved. Whether it's a leaking injector, carbon deposits, vacuum leak, or needing a reflash of the ECM, it still needs to be fixed. Thanks for the heads up on the carbon issues on the V8's.
C5. Jaguars "recommendation" tank additive is BG. Talking to the owner of injectorrx.com who cleans and service injectors and injection pumps for manufactured as well as shops and owners. He think tank additives (as well as ethanol in fuel) is pure crap. I loosens and suspends crap in the tank, to the filter, then into the injectors. I was also just reading an article of fuel lines and anything rubber is being attacked by ethanol and todays fuel addtives to the point that most manufactures fuel lines are PTFE and no longer rubber. But theres still plenty of stuff that causes issues. I have freinds with boats that are having issues with fiberglass fuel tanks flaking pieces into the fuel system and plugging it up. The deposits on the valves are the same oil vapor laden air that gets throttle bodies dirty and plugs the part load breathers and fills the intakes with oil. This is why I still recommend(and do my own) injection cleaning and induction cleaning every 60k along with a new fuel filter.
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Whether you call it flooding or not is unimportant. The signs are the same as what was called flooding on carb engines.
The problem always follows a start when the engine has then been turned off very soon, before the extra fuel put in for a start has been used. A subsequent start will re-inject extra fuel and the motor will not fire, specially if the plugs are dirty/worn.
If it doesn't clear with the 'hold the gas pedal down' method, then pull the fuse on the fuel pump and give it 15 seconds on the starter with the throttle wide open. Then re-fit the fuse and try again.
If it still won't go, pull the plugs and dry them off - they will be wet. Pull the pump fuse and spin the engine with no compression - 10 seconds.
Refit the plugs and pump fuse, it will go.
The 4.0 V8 is notoriously bad for this.
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