In the early days of the 5.0L SC engine, when JLR was still running Denso ECUs, there were 2 issues that collectively produced some engine failures:

1. The oil service interval was stated at 15,000 miles and consumption was found to be higher than expected.
2. The electronic dipstick was not functioning correctly and did not provide low oil warning or limp mode activation.

Consequently a number of engines ran their main bearings. I had one customer at the time who had a pulley & tune, and another acquaintance who had a pulley & tune from Paramount. Both engines were replaced under warranty.

More recently, we helped a gentleman who had previously installed a VMax tune, and who had his cam phasers fail, to get his OEM software back onto the car. His engine was subsequently replaced under warranty, despite having the software trace in place for a non-original calibration.

So, practically speaking my experience has been that if you have a 'known' issue; meaning something which JLR has experienced in the past, with reasonable frequency as a known failure item, then you will most likely not have too much trouble. For example, the timing chain tensioner is not an uncommon failure item on these engines. It's far from being endemic but we hear of a few. So if you present with this issue, most likely it will simply be approved as it is already on the radar.

However, if you come in with a rod through the side of the block, all bets are off. And, certainly I agree with you that it is prudent to err on the side of caution and take the worst case assumption just in case.

Worth remembering something on these V6 engines - this is the same block as the V8, which is making 575BHP in factory trim. Like, it literally is a V8, with the rear 2 bores blanked off in the crank-case, counterweights on the crank etc.

So all of the FEAD system, much of the drivetrain components etc. etc. are comfortably handling nearly 600BHP, in factory spec.

 

I am pretty sure this is not correct, every tune to the car is traceable, regardless if you can piggyback to original file. You can do the same with Stuart's tune. Engineer will always be able to tell if you modified anything if they want to look for it. I never heard of a mod that would not leave a trace other then maybe replacing a certain part and then going back to original? I might not be understanding the tune you are talking about though.

 

"Optimization of the manufacturer's software without the ECU being overwritten" - it sounds like they are adding to the file at the very least so there would definitely be a way to tell it was modified. I believe others can attest that all these software mods are traceable if need be.

 

The mod must change the modified time of the file the ECU is reading.

 

A piggyback unit essentially intercepts the signal and "tricks" the factory ECU to think it's doing something to get a result. If you had a forensics team you might be able to understand something was off but it doesn't overwrite the ECU or leave a log. Bottom line, it's not going to be detectable unless your local dealer has an FBI forensic team on-site. Now, things are changing, this won't last forever, factory ECU's are getting smarter and smarter. I had a friend who ran a shop with factory tools, couldn't see a piggyback I was running but could see a ton like number of shifts, redline events, etc. I'm not saying it's 100% fool proof, but it's a lot different from going through your ECU and overwriting tables. Either way, personally, I'm not too concerned, I own my car so it's my property. Obviously I want to keep close to OEM in case there is an issue from the factory but it's not a huge concern to me.

 

If you reset it back to factory, can they prove that it ever out of factory specification? All they can tell is that has been reset at some point.

If you really ever f up your car; reset the ECU before going to the dealer.

 

They would be able to see that, not that every time they would look but if they did they could see it and chances are if there is an engine failure, they will look at the logs. In the past I would also flash back to stock when going in for service. Some dealers are cool with things, you'd have to feel it out. Bottom line though, from a procedure standpoint on the warranty, they may need to read out the ECU. Flashing is going to show up as an event.

 

That would be the smoking gun they're looking for. Why would an owner reset an ECU after blowing an engine?

 

Can a flashed ECU be cause to deny a warranty claim?

 

i think if you read through the thread most of the answers are there. In short it really depends what the warranty claim is for.

 

As the OP for this thread my question was if certain dealers were more or less aggressive about looking for ECU modifications and how they might apply their concern to warranty issues. 3 or so years ago Audi had most of their dealers actively checking the ECU and flagged the vehicle. It does not seem Jaguar has taken this approach. Of course if there is serious engine failure there will be much greater risk. i have done an ECU mod on multiple Audi's , a Saab and a MB and never had an issue. My VelocityAP programmer is on the way.

 

Where was this said?

 

I have not seen any evidence on forum topics indicating the dealers searching for ECU mods. 3 years ago on Audi forums it was the hot topic. Spoke to my sales guy yesterday and he said he was not aware of JLR looking much.

 

I did not phrase the question correct... Can a claim be denied if your ECU is shown to be reset, but at factory specs at time of claim?

 

Read this thread ==>> https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...dealer-156909/

Short answers;

- The dealer techs do not have to search for it, if they are reading codes in the car for any reason, they will be presented with the code for the "non-OEM calibration".

- Every single time a car with the "non-OEM calibration" code is connected to the dealers diagnostic system, the session is sent back to JLR HQ as a priority.

JLR are not "looking" for it, they have an automated system in place that takes care of that.

Whether or not they care about your car having a tune in it is a different question, but they do know if it has been tuned.

The dealer won't care either way as long as he's being paid, either by the vehicle owner or by JLR.

If your tuned car goes in for a warranty claim for a failed water pump, I don't think they will care. If it goes in for a warranty claim with a conrod poking out the side of the block, I'd say you're in trouble...

 

Yes.

 

Yes, it can. It may not be, but it can.

That said, theoretically they could deny a claim for any number of spurious reasons. Some manufacturers state that warranties are invalidated by track use for example.

 

Does VAP offer any sort of warranty if a failure is found to be caused by their tune?

I know Eurocharged for instance offers something similar to this.

 

We would evaluate on a case by case basis. Thus far after 10 years in the business we haven't had an 'warranty' issue to date, so to speak. If we were responsible for something which was caused by the tune we would stand behind it 100%.

 

What I did not mention in my response to the dealer looking and flagging the ECU mod is that one would presumably flash the car back to the stock program prior to service. I believe but do not know for sure is the car would not alert a "non OEM calibration " to the dealer since ECU is stock. If they then dug deep they would see that some contact was made with the ECU and start to ask questions.