Hello All,

I wanted to put all of this information in one thread in case anyone would like to refer back to it. I've been working on engine/exhaust mods for about 2 1/2 months now and have finally completed all that I plan to do. I'll go through all modifications and impressions so far. I included a copy of they dyno with stock, x-pipe and tune, and x-pipe, tune and pulley; a print out of the power, torque and AFR for all three runs in 100 rpm increments, as well as a photo of the x-pipe. Stock power was 458 hp and 403 ft./lbs. of torque. I've adjusted the color of the power listings in this post to correspond to the colors on the dyno chart.

1. X-Pipe - Took out the two center resonators and added a custom x-pipe. This mod smoothed out the sound and took away most of the decel. popping. Made it a bit louder and deeper when decelerating, going slowly and when downshifting. I think it's actually quieter at steady state cruising and I don't think it's louder under WOT, which I wasn't expecting. Sport mode is also just slightly louder than stock but sounds so much cleaner. Car feels much smoother all around. Seems like throttle response is crisper - maybe the better pull through and scavenging at work? I drive in D with Dynamic Mode on most of the time and it does feel better to me.
Cost: $250 at a local muffler shop.

2. Jailbreak Tuning Tune (978) 600-8863 - Custom dyno tune. Made 492 hp and 466 ft/lb. of torque without a pulley. Changed the entire character of the car. It became a torque monster. Car pulled firmly everywhere in the rev. range. Always wants to go faster now. Feels so much stronger in every respect. I physically feel the power pulling much harder than before, so butt dyno agrees with real dyno. It also seems to raise the suspension up under hard acceleration, which it did not do before. If I didn't already have the pulley, I would have left it like this.
Cost: $1,200

3. Exhaust Valve Delete - After the X-pipe modification, I still wasn't happy with the volume of the exhaust. Liked the tone, but couldn't hear it well with the windows up. I heard a Mina and an Arden exhaust and both were too loud for what I was looking for. So I had the muffler valves deleted to let more of the sound out at lower rpms. Love it. Gives me the character I was looking for without having to worry whether I can talk on the phone over the exhaust or hear passengers in the back seat. Look for posts from Craneboy for detailed photos.
Cost: $200 at a local muffler shop

4. Eurocharged Pulley - Made 498 hp and 454 ft./lbs of torque I already had the pulley purchased so I decided to put it on after the tune. Had GSR Autosport install it. Took about 2 hrs. all total. Noticed that the car pulled noticeably harder still, especially at low rpm's and it also made the car pull through the rev range faster. Not the amount of change as the tune, but still noticeable and actually really not needed. And I know it says that my peak torque is lower now, but the curve is flatter and I have over 425 ft./lbs. from 2500 rpm to 6100 rpm. I don't feel the slight dip in power and torque between 3700 and 4700 because if I'm in that range, I'm typically all the way into the throttle and I go right past it.
Cost: $175 for the pulley and $210 for installation

I've spent a lot of time carefully researching my mods and I can't tell you how happy I am with them. Some I went in a direction less traveled, but my gambles paid off. My advice is don't be afraid to try some things and make the car yours. I've only had mine since August and I'm glad I started this process immediately, as I can now enjoy the fruits of my labor for many years to come. If anyone has questions about what I've done, don't hesitate to PM me or post on this thread.

Brian

 

[QUOTE=2010 Kyanite XFR;908801]Hello All,

I wanted to put all of this information in one thread in case anyone would like to refer back to it. I've been working on engine/exhaust mods for about 2 1/2 months now and have finally completed all that I plan to do. I'll go through all modifications and impressions so far. I included a copy of they dyno with stock, x-pipe and tune, and x-pipe, tune and pulley; a print out of the power, torque and AFR for all three runs in 100 rpm increments, as well as a photo of the x-pipe.

1. X-Pipe - Took out the two center resonators and added a custom x-pipe. This mod smoothed out the sound and took away most of the decel. popping. Made it a bit louder and deeper when decelerating, going slowly and when downshifting. I think it's actually quieter at steady state cruising and I don't think it's louder under WOT, which I wasn't expecting. Sport mode is also just slightly louder than stock but sounds so much cleaner. Car feels much smoother all around. Seems like throttle response is crisper - maybe the better pull through and scavenging at work? I drive in D with Dynamic Mode on most of the time and it does feel better to me.
Cost: $250 at a local muffler shop.

2. Jailbreak Tuning Tune (978) 600-8863 - Custom dyno tune. Made 492 hp and 466 ft/lb. of torque without a pulley. Changed the entire character of the car. It became a torque monster. Car pulled firmly everywhere in the rev. range. Always wants to go faster now. Feels so much stronger in every respect. I physically feel the power pulling much harder than before, so butt dyno agrees with real dyno. It also seems to raise the suspension up under hard acceleration, which it did not do before. If I didn't already have the pulley, I would have left it like this.
Cost: $1,200

3. Exhaust Valve Delete - After the X-pipe modification, I still wasn't happy with the volume of the exhaust. Liked the tone, but couldn't hear it well with the windows up. I heard a Mina and an Arden exhaust and both were too loud for what I was looking for. So I had the muffler valves deleted to let more of the sound out at lower rpms. Love it. Gives me the character I was looking for without having to worry whether I can talk on the phone over the exhaust or hear passengers in the back seat. Look for posts from Craneboy for detailed photos.
Cost: $200 at a local muffler shop

4. Eurocharged Pulley - Made 498 hp and 454 ft./lbs of torque. I already had the pulley purchased so I decided to put it on after the tune. Had GSR Autosport install it. Took about 2 hrs. all total. Noticed that the car pulled noticeably harder still, especially at low rpm's and it also made the car pull through the rev range faster. Not the amount of change as the tune, but still noticeable and actually really not needed. And I know it says that my peak torque is lower now, but the curve is flatter and I have over 425 ft./lbs. from 2500 rpm to 6100 rpm. I don't feel the slight dip in power and torque between 3700 and 4700 because if I'm in that range, I'm typically all the way into the throttle and I go right past it.
Cost: $175 for the pulley and $210 for installation

So you actually lost 12lbft of torque with the pulley install. Weird

 

I thought so as well, but it gained a lot of power under 3500 rpm and the curve is flatter now. Wondering if the exhaust valve delete I made between the tune and the pulley dyno runs had some effect as well. That's the problem with two changes at the same time. I've seen things like that with motorcycles where there is a valve in the header that adds back pressure and helps in the midrange, then opens up to give better top end power. If the valve was removed with a full exhaust, the midrange would typically suffer a dip, sometimes small, sometimes very pronounced. Could also be heat soak related because with the pulley...the intercooler has a really hard time keeping the car cool for multiple runs. The run posted was the second of two after a cool down of about 20 minutes with the fan blowing. The first one had wheel slip and put down over 500 hp and 471 ft. lbs. of torque. But the curves had a big bump so I wouldn't use those as a legitimate number, although the horsepower was legitimate, the peak torque was in the bump.

 

Awesome stuff Kyanite. Remind me, what was your baseline stock dyno pull (if you did one)?

 

458 hp and 403 ft./lbs. It's on the attached dyno chart and the power listings. The power listings are really helpful to me in determining how much you actually gain at a particular rpm. You see it on the chart, but it's easier to compare on the listing.

 

Thanks! That is a seriously nice gain from just a tune. Must.....avoid......calling......that.....number.. ......

 

The reduced torque/hp in the high end could be the TCU bleeding off the power to protect the ZF 6 speed. This has been extensively discussed in the XKR threads.

 

The TCU limiter is one possibility. Another is that with the smaller pulley the supercharger is in a less efficient pressure range. A further is that with the additional boost the supercharger makes more heat and along with the efficiency loss it also contributes to heat soak, especially in a dyno situation and not necessarily the road. Until someone does water injection or upgrades the intercooler I doubt we will be able to know for sure. All I know is the tune and pulley feels more powerful than tune alone when driving. And if the TCU was really the limiting factor, how did my tune only make 12 more peak ft./lbs.? My tune and pulley should have just put out the peak across more of the range, not lost any. And I'm also curious if the exhaust valve delete played a part as well. Love you guys but not willing to spend the money to put the stock mufflers back on to do a few dyno runs, then take them back off just in the name of science.

 

The TVS supercharger could handle at least 15 psi before it moves out of its comfort zone, which I am sure of you aren't close to. There are some limiters left, either the ECU or TCU, that is without question. They could kick in later, giving you the feeling that you have gained, but if you would have measured the actual boost before and after the pulley you would have seen that overall the boost would be about the same.

 

There are so many questions around ECU tuning/pulley upgrading. Tuning shops aren't willing to do the research and make the investment into developing a line a performance products for the 5L SC, F-type, XKR or XFR because of the limited market.


I will love to have my XKR's performance upgraded, but the big question remains: What is the end effect or value in doing it if it can't be understood. More importantly, what is the potential damage. Before any tune shop or performance shop offers a product they should make the investment into completely understanding what they are doing or they are simply experimenting at your expense. A lot of members have taken the plunge and seem to be happy. I'm on the fence because the products available, IMO, are not sound. I don't want someone beta testing on my car. One would think one of these performance shops , RICA, Viezu, ETG, Eurocharged, Paramount, Jailbreak, etc., offering (half ***) products for the 5L SC, would do there commercial due diligence to understand what they are doing before offering a product and charging their clients for it. Come on now, isn't this what they specialize in; or, are they just messing around with your car to make a few fast bucks at the car owners expense.


How long would it take for a performance shop with all there equipment and expertise to research what they are doing. Surely, if they are competent and this is their business why are there so many questions and unknowns. If one of the above performance shops wants to offer a tune (ECU, TCU, etc.), pulley product, exhaust system, etc., as a customer wouldn't you expect them to known what they are doing?


Without doubt the 5L SC engine has a lot of reserved performance gains just waiting to be released. Why doesn't one of these performance shops grab the bull by the horns and produce a line of rock sold products with definable results and effects (aren't these attributes of value) or do they care? We don't want half *** products installed on our Jags.

 

Avos, I know you have a lot of experience with these issues, so I'll defer to your knowledge. But, I do have a way to scientifically test your theory. I will be getting together with some other XFR owners, hopefully next week. I have the wireless OBDII reader and I'll plug it into each of our cars and see what the max boost pressure is for each (one is stock, one has the XKR-S tune and mine with tune and pulley). Should give us definitive numbers, taken on the road, and using the same equipment it should be accurate for comparison purposes.

Anything else we should look for? Not sure what is possible, but will be using Torque for measurements. Haven't downloaded the paid app yet but will this weekend. I'll post something when I get the numbers.

 

A good reputable performance shop selling Jaguar 5L SC tunes and pulley upgrades should have these numbers; or, do they know what they are selling?

 

@2010 Kyanite XFR
That would be a great plan actually, as that will help to see where the boost levels are for different setups.

Measuring boost isn’t the best way actually, but the best one without using the dealer tool, so am looking forward to it.

Ideally you should try to record readings, as the boost could fluctuate a little pending on the tune. When you select sensors, try to only select the boost and rpm, no other sensors as the more you select the less info you get per second per sensor. Not all standard obdii readers do well here, but let’s try it.

Then when you do a run, do it in 3rd gear (only on your private driveway of course as you may exceed the maximum speed allowed ), so you get the most readings (2nd gear is very short obviously).

This would be great if others could do as well.

 

For those of you interested in add-on logging systems, I have had success with the one below on my other car:

Zeitronix Zt-2 : SEMA Award Winning Wideband Engine Datalogging System

Its relatively inexpensive and can monitor Air/Fuel ratio (wideband), RPM, Vacuum/Boost, Exhaust Gas Temperature, Throttle Position, 0-5 volt sensors (such as MAF), Air/Fluid temperature sensors and Oil/Fuel pressure sensors.

That said, I would be interested in the ODB data logging options for these cars.

 

The Mina kit looks "pretty" polished and the welding. Hope the 3 pictures got attached properly.

 

UPDATE! Went yesterday and had my car re-run on the dyno. Was shocked when 532 hp and 496 ft./lbs. showed up on the dyno display! I was expecting somewhere in the low 500's (506-510 and somewhere about 475 on torque). I will put up some new info. for analysis when I get the run files from Jailbreak. I did some initial calculations and depending on whether I use 12% or 15% for driveline losses, I'm at 605 or 625 bhp respectively. And at any rate, I'm up about 70 rwhp and 90 ft./lbs. from stock. That's pretty damn good for about $2,800 including the tune, pulley (and installation), TCP intake, x-pipe and muffler mods.

I was pretty sure the supercharger coolant pump issue cost me horsepower, but I had no idea how much. Now I do and it was a lot. I also think the intake was probably worth a few horsepower as well, but I'll never really know. I am also going to scrap the whole idea of water/meth injection. After the repair, I don't lose any power run after run so no need now. So the $100 dyno run saved me $1000

Now I definitely have to learn how to leave in second gear with traction control OFF! Have new Bridgestone S-04's going on this week and I'm pretty sure I'm going to get some Savini BM-12's (with the savings from not getting the water/meth) very soon as well. Not sure if 10's or 10.5's will fit but will be getting the widest that will for biggest contact patch. Going to Famoso at the end of the month and will report back how I did.

 

What do you mean by, "I was pretty sure the supercharger coolant pump issue cost me horsepower, but I had no idea how much.".

 

Wow congrats dude~! Seriously impressive numbers. I wouldn't worry about the meth injection now either unless you are just concerned about knocking. Would love to see that dyno chart to check out the curve when you get a chance to host it!

 

I had a supercharger coolant pump issue that I didn't know about at the time of the last dyno run. Found out about it shortly after while doing some shenanigans with some friends and "Restricted Performance" came up. Twice. Ran codes and realized it was the supercharger coolant pump. But every time I would check it with the Torque app to see if it was the same code, it would clear it. So when I was in the dealer to get it fixed, no code = no repair. And it didn't ever show up under normal driving conditions. Had to run it hard for it to appear.

Finally got it fixed and now the dyno result is even better than expected! It explained how my tune only peak torque number was more than my tune and pulley and hp only increased by less than 10 hp. Now that the heat in the supercharger doesn't cause the fuel to dump and timing to be pulled, more power is made

 

Should get the files from the tuners on Tuesday and post sometime soon after.