It's pointless because your question is posted to a group of XFR owners who have very little to gain by using E85 in our SUPERCHARGED CARS. You need specfics? For that as you say 10% boost in hp?
You will use 30% more fuel, which will require;
New E85 fuel lines. $$$
Larger fuel pumps. $$$
Larger fuel injecters. $$$
An engine computer capable of running E85.$$$$
All of which would don't even exist = POINTLESS.
No one is every going to knock a good mod that makes power, adds to longevity or easy of maintaining, even better if it's cheap. Your E85 question/mod would do, or be none of those things, making it again POINTLESS.
Killing the messenger, because you don't like the message changes nothing. Happy modding!
Ps, those K&N Filters only cost $100.

 

Ummm, mate, I'm not sure how to break this to you but...

The fuel system in the XF is 100% E85 compatible, some of the items are even clearly marked "E85" like the fuel filter housing...

And there are factory tunes for these cars to run in certain markets, on E85, same ECU, different program...

Have a READ about half way down the page http://media.jaguar.com/en-us/news/2...s-model-lineup

Now, maybe the fuel system is not big enough to deliver 700hp of E85, but I can assure you there are supercharged Jags running around on E85 right this very minute.

Has anyone tuned any of those cars running E85 to make crazy power? I don't know anyone in Brazil to ask...

 

Ummm, not not US market XFs Cambo, hell after 2010 XF's don't even have an external fuel filter. If a car is E85 Ready in the US, it will have a yellow gas cap that says so. My owners manual say "No more than 10% ethanol recommended".

 

E85 ( or RE85 called in my country ) is not a mystery stuff. It has already been available 6-10y in many countries. I think 80-90% of serious power street cars here are made running E85 because it's available from so many stations , it's 80-90% cheaper than pure race fuel and even cheaper than regular 91 AKI/95 RON or 93 AKI/98 RON fuels. Typhical RON for RE85 is "over 104" and MON "over 94" stated by the manufacturer - so, we can keep it as 100AKI+ . Average ethanol % for summer blend is 83% and for winters 82%. Octane is just one side of the coin. The cooling effect is another big thing. This helps you be out of any possibility of detonation. You add 10 degrees or more timing advance to the stock tune. Even with stock tune you can feel more midrange torque. There are some things to consider when using E85: Enough capacity fuel pumps, injectors and lines, drain the fuel tank for any longer storage or change for high octane regular / or 0% ethanol fuel, use stuff like Redline SI-Alcohol to ensure lubrication on fuel pumps, injectors and piston rings. Also use just engine oil which support E85. Otherwise you may damage the engine in short or at least long run. Please remember that cold start at -20-30C can be difficult or impossible if your engine is not pre-heated. Also since the blend is not always same ethanol 85%, proper way to tune is to connect ethanol content sensor to the ECU which calculates the proper mixture for any blend.

 

It's no mystery in the US either, where I came from at LS1 Tech E85 is the boosted norm from Vettes to 15 passenger vans, but this thread is really trying to over simplify the transformation from gas to E85. It can be done to ANY car, but at what cost? And a factory fuel line stamped "E85 ready" only covers that part. Happy Modding..

 

FFS will you just get over yourself. No need to try and be polite to you any more. This thread only asked if there were any people running E85 and seeing if there were any tuses out there. That is VERY simple. If you don't have any details, don't comment.

I then asked what the stock fuel system can handle, what would be the first limiting factor in the system (i.e maybe a Walbro fuel pump upgrade).

This thread isn't trying to oversimplify anything, it's you who is overcomplicating things. You keep saying pointless. Can you have a look at your first reply. That whole post was pointless. Literally. I don't give 2 $hits what you paid for your shitty 50hp. Cool story bro.

Please stop posting in this thread and GTFO if you keep insisting how pointless everything here is.

I'm not here to debate the work required or the costs involved. PLEASE, it is not the point at all. All your arguements are pointless.

In all my years of forum use, only moron teenagers have ever gotten me so frustrated at narrow minded tunnel visioned responses like yours.

Mods, please delete this post if it is deemed offensive.

 

Did you even read the link Cambo posted?
Of the official Jaguar US website?
"....supercharged V8 certified for E85 ethanol fuel"

 

Big Will, I got a bit heated. I apologise. Let's agree to disagree as this debate is going nowhere. In my eyes any HP gain is worth it within reason, and all data points to modest gains are within reason without needing to spend big dollars.

 

The two points I brought up previously are hardly brain farts if that was me you were referring to.

Irrespective of the onset of detonation, ignition timing cannot be endlessly advanced with the expectation of an increase in power. Anyone with a practical background in tuning has witnessed this. There is a point in any engine where the ignition becomes so far advanced that the expanding gasses attempt to push the piston backwards rather than allowing it to rise and further compress the unlit mixture.

I have no idea where this sweet spot is on the engine in question and how much margin the stock tune has compared to this. It appears you don't know either and don't wish to consider the limitations this may pose. Again, detonation and potential cooling of alcohol based fuels are not factors in this phenomena.

Regarding the octane rating of the fuel (and using the AKI system to keep it simple) E100 has a rating of 99 AKI. Being that E85 is 15% gasoline it is essential to know the octane rating of that component. If the gasoline portion is rated at 99AKI, then the final E85 blend would also be 99AKI.

Since the fuel is actually blended and retailed for vehicles that can run on 87 AKI and would see no benefit by running higher octane levels, it makes little sense for petroleum retailers to produce E85 with an AKI rating of anything higher.

If 85% of the fuel is ethanol with an AKI rating of 99, then blending in 15% gasoline with an AKI of 80-82ish (raw refinery gas without octane boosting additives) would give a net AKI of around 96ish.

We don't seem to know what the AKI of the gasoline component might be and are just relying on what others claim. That's no more credible that people saying that K&N filters give a 3% power boost.

 

OMG.

 

No, not directed at you at all, as I said in my first line. You make clear, concise points of discussion.

Your argument in regards of petroleum companies not making sense of having a higher AKI rating isn't necessarily true. Here, E85 is marketed as a performance fuel and not a substitute for every day use commuting. It's a much cheaper option than race gas.

You're 100% correct, there's only so much timing advance you can runow before what you described happens: detonation.

But that's what the whole point of tuning is. You are fine tuning. It's the tuners Nirvana to find that holy sweet spot. You don't go in and run 25 degrees off the bat. For example, you might start with 10 degrees and advance at one or two degrees at a time until you reach what the tuner feels safe. It's usually between 15 to 20 degrees but obviously there's no fixed magical number. You'd like a nice AFR of 12.5 to 13 while we're at it.

I don't see the need to focus on the AKI rating so much. I have no need to doubt the credibility of E85. It had been proven on dynos, drag strips and OEM tests time and time again. I can't control how shifty the fuel companies are with their labels.

I started this thread purely as a feeler to see what was available on this platform. I now know that there is virtually no options for running E85 for any performance gains without a proper tune.

I also had no intention of just throwing in 100% E85. I would like to take incremental steps in the development to find out what the limits of the stock fuel system are cable of delivering and what tuning can be done with E85. Maybe started with an E20 mix, move it up to E30 and alter the tune accordingly.

I by no means want to run the engine to the ragged edge, but wouldn't it be cool to see a relatively safe and cheap tune with a blend of cheap E85 with some moderate gains for when we wanna go racing?

We won't need expensive fuel pump, fuel line, fuel injector, ECU upgrades.

Ohe and my 3% K&N filter comment was just an off the cuff random number of say a 10hp gain. I'll most likely be getting these myself anyway.

Also, there's probably no way of running enough E85 to max out the fuel system anyway before engines blow up, axles break, driveshafts snap etc. I keep reading that the limit of these is 675 to 700hp or less.

 

One question- where is 'here'? You may want to update your profile. I've presumed that you are in North America.

The discussion above about timing advance having it's limits is again, separate from the subject of detonation. A given engine can reach it's timing advance limitations by the spark (and subsequent fuel expansion) having occurred so far in advance of the piston reaching TDC that the engine produces less net power by it having to 'fight' against the expanding gasses. This can and does happen without the presence of detonation.

 

I speak my mind fella so, guess who's problem it is if YOU get YOUR Panties in a wadd. I guess you got somthing to prove since you JUST JOINED, BUT CRITICISM IS COOL WITHOUT THE INSULTS. I look forward to seeing you around the forum with more fantasy land "what if's" or what's even more likely "WTF HAVE I DONE"..lol it's your thread so you get the last word...

 

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and RELAX, and remember why we're all here...

 

Unless avos has it already (up to 700HP) like for some of the other jags?

 

As in a supercharger upgrade? Is avos a company or a person?

700HP would probably be as far as I'd be willing to go, maybe a bit less. It may be a bit too much for the driveline to handle? That's even if I can get close to that figure, but ti would only be that for the track. Would run a much more conservative street tune.

 

avos is the handle of a forum member, see this thread: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/j...project-52518/

 

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/j...700-hp-154721/

 

did you ever find this out? I’m almost out of stuff to upgrade and i believe this would be a great icing on the cake mod. I’ve gotten pulleys, intake, tune(s) from multiple companies including a 650, killer chiller is underway, transmission build is underway, I have brand new OEM injectors and fuel pumps (all 3 plus a new in tank flange), I just rebuilt the Supercharger and gave it some fresh oil, Diff has new gear oil also. I mean my XF is Ready for the works. E85 could be the best last thing to add.

 

Do it!!! Ha-ha!!!