On a trip Friday the door locks went inoperative due to a blown fuse. Replaced the fuse when I got back home and cycled the door locks with the Remote and everything worked correctly. Came back out later and the drivers door is now permanently locked. When I activate the unlock function on the remote the other door lock knobs cycle 3 times probably due to the drivers door locking mechanism being stuck. The pull knob feels like a rubber band and the interior door pull feels the same, normally the interior pull lever will open the door if locked. It would appear that I will have to take a slim jim to the door to get it opened and replace the lock solenoid. I've searched the forum and haven't found this condition being talked about. Would any of y'all have any experience with this?

TM

 

Hi
I do have same problem. I only can open or close the driver's door lock with the key. And it rather hard
I lso will have to remove the door panel and look inside
I was told that it could be the activating cable (from inside door handle) beeing too tight
Claude

 

Claude-it's an unacceptable failure mode for sure. I contacted the dealer and they want a grand to fix it. It looks like they are well aware of the issue and have dealt with it before. I have a call into Jag NA and if that is unsuccessful I will start calling in markers in the OEM parts vendor chain and find out who the vendor for the lock module is and hunt down an engineer that knows how this is supposed to work......

 

Finally fixed this. Took it to Jaguar of Chattanooga and they had it done in a few hours. Problem solved.

 

So what was the problem? Mine will do it every now and then. Normally if I push the plunger down, put it in gear so the doors lock, it will then unlock correctly.

 

As I understand it, there is a small actuator in the lock mechanism that will eventually stick. When it does stick it blows the fuse on the door lock. When you replace the fuse and actuate the door it can either fail locked or unlocked. In my case it failed locked and the door failed. If yours is still working I would replace the latch now to avoid what I went through. Jaguar USA was totally unhelpful as they consider this a normal maintenance item. I don't. Locks should not fail like this.

 

I would agree that door lock repairs are not a 'maintenance item'...at least not in the sense or context that most of us would consider. But, I have to ask....what were you expecting Jaguar to say or do in this case?

Cheers
DD

 

Fix the locks at no charge or at the very least point me to a tech that could do the work and supply the parts gratis.


Jaguar knew the locks were a problem. Nippondenso built the locks to their specs and this is the first time in my driving history that I've ever had a latch fail on any vehicle that I've owned. In the event of a failure like this that resulted in the death of an occupant Jaguar would have been on the hook for much more than the cost of repairing a lock. They didn't even offer a procedure as to how to do the repair because it's one of the repairs they don't like to talk about. I've spoken to several older techs that are now retired and they were well aware of this happening. My car is not a beater, it's been taken care of and looks like the day it rolled off of the showroom floor. It has less than 60K on the odo.


TM

 

Ahhhh. I get it.



Is the expectation that lock actuators/lock systems never fail, or that they never fail in this particular way?



Which, in and of itself, means nothing....as I'm sure you know






Might be interesting to research if there are any FMVSS standards covering door latch failure modes



You mean there's nothing in the service manuals on how to replace a door latch? I find that hard to believe....but I've never actually looked




Probably a lost cause but have you gone online to the NHTSA web page and resarched these failures? If it's a widespread issue they'll probably have something on it, although it might not have risen to the level of a recall.


Not relevant, really. If there's a safety standard/requirement pertaining to this type of failure, and the standard isn't being met, it doesn't matter if the car is a beater or not.

Cheers
DD

 

Doug,


If you are you going to segregate, take everything I say out of context and address each point like this is a legal proceeding I'll close the thread or we can have a conversation. What would you like to do? This is not the Spanish inquisition.


I have my views, you can have yours. I am not an idiot. I've been around the car business as a tech and I'm well aware of what the failure modes should be from my work with Automotive OEM's in manufacturing. If someone died because a lock failed in the wrong situation, anyone, it's an issue. Locks should not fail in a condition that leaves the car door immobilized. If they do, the manufacturer is at fault and could be held liable.


Feel free to peruse the tech manuals and point me to the procedure for corrective action vis a vis a lock failure and get back to me. I didn't find it.


TM

 

Yikes!

I'm not against you on this. In fact I was suggesting a couple areas/sources that might give more information.

Anyhow, since you're "well aware" of what door lock failure modes should be then you should know if there is or isn't a applicable standard for failure modes; that is, if they fail, they must fail in unlocked mode. If that's the case, and you know that's the case, then you might've said so directly in an earlier posting.

Obviously, if that standard/requirement does exist and Jaguar fails to meet it, then you'd be in a stronger position to battle Jaguar.

As for segregating your remarks I'm sorry I offended you. I reply as if we were having a face to face exchange.....where people don't typically make statements in entire paragraphs and get an entire paragraph in response.

I'm also sorry that I pointed out remarks you made that have no bearing on the issue. I'm merely trying to get to the heart of the matter.

As for having a conversation or not, we are having one.

As for you closing the thread....I don't think you have the power.

As for you not being an idiot, I never said you were or even implied it.....although a couple of your remarks seemed to go off onto a tangent, IMHO.

Apologies, again, for ruffling your feathers. I guess I'm not understanding what you are/were expecting by way of response to your situation and your postings.

Cheers
DD

 

You're original question was: I would agree that door lock repairs are not a 'maintenance item'...at least not in the sense or context that most of us would consider. But, I have to ask....what were you expecting Jaguar to say or do in this case?


I answered: Fix the locks at no charge or at the very least point me to a tech that could do the work and supply the parts gratis.

Do you think that was an unfair request?


In the end I did all the work, found the defective part, identified what needed to be done, lined up a dealer that could actually do the work without ruining my vehicle, purchased the requisite repair parts to complete the job and spent several hours on the phone wrestling with New Jersey and they did not one thing to assist me on a vehicle that purchased as a second owner under warranty and have owned since 1997. I wasted hours on the phone with Jaguar USA trying to get help. They are excellent at stonewalling and obfuscating the issues. The local dealer in Nashville was the most helpful getting spares(although they wanted to keep my car for 2 days to do the job and I already knew that the factory allotted 4 hours for the repair and hence they didn't get to experiment on my vehicle) and Jaguar Chattanooga had a tech that at least could do the job to get the door fixed. I called in favors from engineers at OEM parts manufacturers that knew the door systems and after 15 months of the car sitting finally succumbed to the dealer route.


I probably could have done the work myself but rather than take a chance on damaging the door I found a tech that did the research on what it took to do the work and they did a good job but I'm not happy about how the situation went down with Jaguar USA. It's just another example of an overly complicated piece of machinery and a failure mode that is unacceptable in a modern vehicle not to mention not being able to get actual assistance. I can only imagine what a new Jaguar owner will go through as their vehicles age.


The moral of the story regarding this issue on an X300 is if the door locks even hiccup better have a spare lock and hope that when it fails that the door is open otherwise prepare to spend an inordinate amount of time researching and repairing or drop a cool grand to fix it later. I'm already looking for another door latch to keep as a spare. Hopefully someone that reads this thread going forward will know some of the pitfalls that I went though and be forewarned.


TM

 

Certainly not unfair if Jaguar has designed a lock system that doesn't meet mandated safety requirements....if such a standard exists for the type of failure you've experienced.

Does such a standard exist?

If no standard for a 'fail safe' mechanism exists, well....? I think it would be great if Jaguar designed the locks that way, sounds like a great idea. But, realistically, Jaguar doesn't give a rat's a** about what we think would be a better, safer idea....especially on 15-20 year old cars. And they're even less interested in paying for repairs on 15-20 year old cars. They're like other car manufacturers in that respect.

So, would it be 'fair' that Jaguar pay for repairs on 15-20 year old cars because we feel the original design was sub-par? Sure, it would be more than fair! But, as you found out, it won't happen.

(Aside: does *anyone* build a car with fail safe door locks? I dunno. Just asking. Over the years I've repaired a number of cars with latches stuck in the 'lock' position...but I'm not familiar with every make, year, etc)





The actuator inside the latch assembly? Or ?


Cheers
DD

 

The lock circuits and testing of same are covered in section A5-Security. I didn't read in depth to determine how comprehensive the coverage is, but it looked pretty good at first blush.

Removal of the latch is explained in section A5-17. There's no info on repairing the internal workings on the latch as it's not intended to be a 'serviceable item' (a pet peeve, these modular assemblies, but that's a different story)

The circuit diagrams are very well covered/illustrated in the readily available "S95 Electrical Guide". Among the best schematics I've ever worked with, personally.

I don't know what specific problems you had with the diagnosis that resulted in 15 months of down time, so I may well be missing something, but I'm not quite sure that Jaguar was actually refusing to publish repair or diagnostic information as you mentioned earlier.


Cheers
DD

 

Read post #4. I've already stated that Jaguar of Chattanooga fixed the lock. I did all the legwork to get it to the point where it could be repaired.


Regarding NHTSA standards concerning locks and how they fail there have been many recalls for various makes of automobiles and trucks for exactly that issue. The method in which a door latch fails is no different in my mind than using rolled threads on mission critical suspension and braking components. The idea is to minimize collateral damage from a known failure mode.

 

I read those bulletins early on and there was no specific help dealing with a door where the latch had failed in the closed condition. Jaguar NJ was no help resolving the issue either. They will give you access to tech documents but the tech documents are only good if they actually addressed this particular issue. If the door latch had failed with the door open we wouldn't be having this nice friendly chat on Jaguar Forums because solving the problem from that point would have been trivial. Once the tech in Chattanooga gained access to the inner workings of the door in the closed condition, destroying the latch was a matter of time. Figure 1 on page 43 of Security System Restricted issue shows a door in the open position. My situation was not so fortuitous.


The 15 months of downtime was my choice. I don't need or want to drive the car everyday so I elected to let it sit until such time as I wanted to deal with the issue of getting the door fixed.

 

check out if there are any technical service bulletin on this or there might be a recall, recalls are usually done free of charge, keep us posted, thanks

 

My curiosity being piqued on this issue, and having a fresh pot of coffee, I did a bit of research. Notice I said "a bit"

The FMVSS Standard 206 is the only thing I could find pertaining to door locks. It is 99% concerned with keeping doors from flying open in a crash. It does mention that '.......doors shall have a locking mechanism to prevent opening from the outside....' or words to that effect. That's it.

Not sure where else to lock for relevent information. Ideas?

Of course that doesn't prevent a manufacturer from voluntarily designing and using a fail-safe lock mechanism. I don't know if any of them do.

Searching the NHTSA website revealed no recalls or complaints regarding 1995-97 Jaguar X300 door locks. There *was* a complaint regarding a broken door handle but I'm not sure if that is pertinent here (I didn't want to pay the fee to see the entire document)

Cheers
DD

 

Ahhh. I get it now.

You're right, I see nothing on opening a door that is stuck in the closed position.

I totally misunderstood.

In your earlier posts I thought you were looking for information on *how the power lock system works and how to repair it*. Now I realize (I think) that you wanted information (from Jaguar or anyone) on how to open a door that is locked/stuck in the closed position.

I thought the issue of getting the door open was already addressed (with the slim jim mentioned in post #1)


Cheers
DD

 

Interesting post? But, let me get back to the question. My door is hard to lock and hard to open. Would spraying the outside help loosen up the actuator? Actually, it is my friends car, he only has 105,000 miles on it. My car has 168,000 on it and it is fine. I am wondering if not using the door makes it worse? Any opinions? Also, I found information on another post that the window sleeves have to come out before this part can be replaced? Is that true?