Well...been enjoying my XJ...smooth, quiet, no codes, even passed PA inspection and emissions.

So...noticed that, when it was frigid this last week, the 1-2 shift was a little harder than usual in that you actually felt the uptick...but, nothing strange, I thought, since my '12 VW with a DSG does the same thing...thick oil in the cold.

Well anyway, yesterday was absolutely balmy here in the northeast. Started her up in the morning to go off to a meeting...nice, smooth shifting...really grooving on this ride. Nothing like the big cat, you know?

Anyway, come home...park in driveway...do some more work on the interior restoration (redying the seats with the Leatherique process), vacuum her out, install the new floor mats, clean the windows...you know, spend some quality time with the car.

Significant other says she could go for some pizza...so, off I go. Still no sign of problems...until I get in left turn lane, wait for some cars to clear, and press on the gas....nothing...bang...Gearbox Fault!

Sigh. And it's been going so well.

So, limped home, dropped off pizza...had a couple slices...and limped to local wrench.

Code is stored. Well...have a price to pull the trans and torque converter; my local shop doesn't have the equipment or experience to handle rebuilding the box. And that's ok; while not rocket science, if it's not something you do every day, better to let someone who does handle it.

(I could, but do not have the space or time with my real job...on the road constantly)

And a price for rebuild or exchange unit (which is the same). New drums, friction plates, bearings, seals, gaskets, rebuilt pressure solenoids, filled with factory fluid, tested, and guaranteed.

Not TOO far out of line, from a well known ZF shop in the northeast. Not even going to waste the time and expense.

So, the big cat is ailing a bit, but, considering it's still in middle age with 108K miles, an '03 engine with less than 60K on the clock, upgraded cam chains and tensioners, decent interior, new shocks, ball joints, and some bushings replaced, no corrosion underneath, it'll bite a bit, but in the end, will return her to the road (until the next issue arises..)

 

Hoping your cat feels better soon.

 

It's a shame that the ZF box has proven to not be as robust as others of the time.

Guess the good part is the number of cars they were used in provides for a lot of practice.

Best of luck with the rebuild.


I was hit with a "low coolant" warning coming back from NY on the turnpike this morning ... thankfully it went off soon after .... hate the red light!

 

I don't think ANY transmissions since the late 80s have held up well, for many cars.

The GM 5 speed auto box is a horror show. Had 2 Caddys, same model trans, both of them threw boxes (one in a sedan de ville, the other in a 99 Seville. Both same problem; the O/D gear stripped). Olds Silouhette? Overhauled that box. Chevy Uplander? Sloppy shifting, traded that in to the lot I bought the XJ from (it was shifting fine when he took it out for the test drive..held my breath..guess the karma came around...).

VWs back in the mid 80s had issues on the GTI where the intermediate shaft, which was just press fit in the case, would machine through the side.

OTOH, drove a 65 beetle for 200K miles...did the jugs on the engine in my garage, replaced the clutch and pressure plate, never had an issue with the box. That little 40HP 4-pot started on half a revolution of the starter. Amazing car.

Couple of friends have beemers with the same 5HP24. They've both had to do the box.

According to the rebuilder in CT, the problem actually starts with the valve bodies' bore wearing and not allowing the solenoid(s) to move smoothly to regulate the pressure; it over-pressurizes, and jolts the clutch baskets. A case of parts being designed for perfect operation with little margin for error. According to them, the new parts are made with a greater margin and better materials, from ZF. At least that's what they say, and my wrench confirms that this shop does it right. So, I'll just go with an exchange and be done with it. Not worried about numbers matching.

Now, whether it's a case of closing the doors after the horses left...that's an exercise to the reader.

She's ailing, but, after all the work is completed, and the body work projected to be taken care of after the winter, while I won't get out what I put in...it should do me well for a few years.

Hey, I restore Lotuses. And those NEVER return what has to go into their renovation. But the ride down the highway and comfort is well worth it.

 

the core off to the rebuilder for exchange.

1 week turn around. A day to put in (also putting in new rubber mount and a new coolant pump.)

Will post photos of the install if the mechanic lets me watch...

 

Are the prices you were quoted secret? If not do you not think it would be information of use to readers of this thread?

 

The thing is the motor vehicle industry as a whole has moved in the last 20 years from bullet proof reliability to cost saving with lighter construction, built in obsolescence and fuel economy as there main parameters.
Trouble is as horsepower and significant torque incresaes have outstripped the capabilities of the auto boxes and ZF is not alone in this regard.
With increasing use of lightweight materials and construction, it makes the oil manufacturers job that much harder to come up with blends that will work
in an increasingly hostile environment.

 

$2500 for the exchange box after core subtracted, plus shipping
$600 to pull and replace
$65 for the tranny mount.
$120 for the coolant pump (while in there, might as well)

This what you're looking for?

 

I've noticed that, XJAY8. The other stress against longevity is the heavy hand of regulations and the law of unintended consequences as these cars age, but technology changes without taking the needs of existing machines still on the road (ie we'll just impose regulations regarding composition of commercially-produced lubricants without considering that specifying components by fiat rather than testing will pretty much crater pre-regulation mechanical components...like the reduction in K and Zn in motor oils causing issues in non-roller tappet engines due to the boundary layer lubrication degredation with the deletion of additives containing those compounds...we started seeing that when the API formulations for SM oils started being used in older cars...and noted it back in the 90s at Exxon Research (where I worked) as we were investigating additive packages that would meet projected standards and still support older, existing motors...).

The other is that NO manufacturer (well, with exceptions such as Mercedes and, formerly Honda while Soichiro was alive) expects that after a period of time, there will be a call for parts or components in vehicles they produced decades or more previously. Let's face it, someone buying a new XJ8 in 2000 at the lofty (for then) price of 68 or 70K would sneeze at the 5 or 6K replacement (not that they'd be happy necessarily, but most could probably cut the check without seriously being impacted) cost if it happened. It's only when you get to our ownership, I think, when the cost of replacement becomes a value judgement: is our enjoyment of the car worth the expense of maintenance and replacing large hunks which represent a significant fraction of the car's worth.

Of course, after I complete this next issue, I expect that I'll drive the car and enjoy it until the next event makes me pause. Or...I'll just provide all the maintenance docs to the next owner, and adjust the price accordingly...

 

Well, the $2500 price for the box is actually good IMO. Are you getting them to send you the extra fluid with the box?

If it is coming from the authorized rebuilders they will have been required by ZF to use the factory fluid ... I forget how much you need for the cooler attachment .. been a long time since I saw one.

With the correct fluid from the rebuilder you will have no issues

 

Comes tested and filled, with an extra quart to cover the cooler drainage. Hoping this solves this particular weak point.

 

Sounds good ... Is 1Q enough? Jim on this forum had them rebuild his -- I thought he had a picture of more then 1 Q

I spent/ spend many weekends not far from you .. starting a rebuild next week a bit further north.

 

We'll see when they drop off the exchange. If not, the shop my friend owns has the proper fluid on the shelf. He's a stickler for following mfr specs, especially with the higher end rides.

I'm right across the river from Trenton (paradise on the Delaware?)...with cars and parts spread across the central NJ/lower Bucks area...

 

I know the area -- I have been renting the converted barn on well known farm in Wrightstown .. almost two years. We are about to start the rebuilding in Solebury within a few weeks .. so we are now taking a different approach on the weekends.

What shop do you use? I don't have a big need .. have occasionally used a place in Stockton

 

I use a couple shops; I was kind of caught out with the transmission fault a couple weeks ago close to home, there's a small indie shop in Falls Township on old trenton rd right off tyburn (it's in the back of the strip mall, called "Jaguar Specialists"), seems to be a nice guy to work with, but not for complex stuff. He was OK with pulling the lump and putting it back in...but he's a one man band, so...my XJ is in the shop, parked next to a rolls on one side and XJS on the other. He's handled a couple things for me: inspection, tracking down an oil leak on a valve cover, etc. Seems to know his stuff and not out to hose anyone.

For heavy/complex work, I know but never used, Don's in Flemington, but, I've been working with Joe Hann, who owns Flemington Foreign Car, since the early 90s. He's right on the Rt 12 circle (second circle to the west of US202); former Jag wrench, works on lots of high-end (Mercs, Beemers, Jags, Audi, etc) rides. Walks the walk. Fair, but, he is busy. Luckily I have a '12 Jetta as my second (along with the Europa as my toy).

 

Now, to just get it racked and stacked.

 

Bryan:
I will take exception to one small detail in your post:

"I don't think ANY transmissions since the late 80s have held up well, for many cars."

My experience , along with many others is that the MB box used in the X-308 SC variant is nearly bulletproof. I have two examples, both driven hard, each with 200,000 plus miles on the original box, with one of them never having the fluid changed. The ZF in my wife's MY 02 NA has also done well. I think they might have fixed the A drum issue by then.

 

I realize that I may have been a bit 'broadbrush' in that statement...and don't dispute (based on nominal experience) that is true. Maybe I'm rough (don't think so...I have a Renault 336 box that is over 40 years old, is still quiet, and I've only had to replace the seals on); maybe I buy the wrong car model. Just seems that a LOT of folks have issues (across all marques) with transmissions that have been made in the last 30 years.

I'm thinking it has to do with either 1) value engineering (building to a price point), 2) trying to do too much with complex machinery, or 3) people keeping their cars a lot longer than they did in the 60s and 70s (remember when you traded in every 4 or 5 years?) when the common thought that the car was used up at 75K miles, and thus, we're seeing problems that only second or third owners of 100K mile cars would have seen.

Now, no one give second thought to buying a good condition 100K mile car, and putting a second or third 100K on the mileometer. (My record is 375K on a brand new1980 VW Diesel Rabbit L bought after the '79 gas shock; 1 clutch, 2 head gaskets, an injection pump, and multiple tire sets).

 

They always looks so calm sitting on the floor!


In 1990 -- if you got 100k on the transmission and 125k out of the car you were doing good. The next generation of vehicles out in the mid to late 90's were from a different galaxy.

The ZF box and the MB box were revolutionary when they came out ... The MB box went into so many cars it was the only transmission that could take the high HP. My 01 911 turbo the same box.

 

Yep, Brian- I think you nailed it- It used to be that a normal car got 100,000 miles, tops. Heck that's as high as the odometer went. Now 200,000 is not unusual, especially for a Jaguar.

Modern transmissions are a lot more forgiving about tolerances and dirt, though since they have mostly electronic control valves and do not depend so much on hydraulic servos which were highly susceptible to even micro dirt particles. An amateur mechanic even has a fighting chance on new boxes since they require a lot less setup of servo pistons clearance and spring loading torques.

Personally, I am pretty hard on a transmission, whether auto or manual, but I have had excellent experience with X-308s auto boxes.