But the US killed the E type ( XKE ) Jag with daft lighting laws that ruined the svelte lines , and emission laws that made it impotent, Not to mention the V12 series 3 that was all out of proportion ( too long / wide ) to fit a large US butt.


The XJS had to change marketing direction from a sports car to a GT ? What about the Corvette ???
Out preformed by a pickup truck with a 3.8 V6 !!!


Jaguar , because it had a large market in the US , and a small budget, forced all these changes on the rest of the world , EG , those stupid looking big rubber bumpers on the series XJ s , the weird looking quad headlamps on the XJS as opposed to the trapezoid rest of the world headlamps that actually light the road ahead.


The X308 , that after late 1998 that grew an inch taller because bumper / headlamp laws changed again and Jaguar had to put 1 inch longer springs on to comply.
But also I will not complain about an obscure US crash law that never came about that only the X300 /X308 and the Mercedes S Class were designed to meet, and as a consequence are about the safest cars in their age/class on the roads

 

Yup the first few years were best. But even before those changes the sun was setting on the E-type when compared to the Porsche and Corvette of the time....and they handled the USA requirements much better, broadly speaking



More like from a GT into a 'personal luxry car'. Even at the beginning calling it a sports cars is a slight stretch.




For a few models years in the mid-late 70s the Corvette was really terrible in terms of performance. That's one of the reasons those early XJSs were so great!

Diffference is, within a few years the Corvette became a fast and competitve car again. The XJS didn't !



I actually think the USA was actually the *biggest* market for Jaguar, no?



Forced changes on the rest of the world?

On the Ser ies XJs the bumpers were different for USA and not forced on the ROW. Here in the USA we actually seek out the smaller UK/ROW bumpers for our Series II-III sedans.

Again, the USA 4-lamp system was not forced on the rest of the world.




Sorry about the USA regulations. Jaguar had the option of not complying and not selling cars in the USA. Of course, the company would almost certanly have gone out of business almost immediately without the USA market. How would that work for ya ?


Hmmm. Maybe they decided to drop the law because only two cars could comply? I dunno. Can't believe Audi, BMW, Volve, etc wouldn't comply.

Cheers
DD

 

The USA was/ is the biggest market for Jaguar ...... when you have model runs as long as they have, trying to make changes in existing models is very hard. The true (no damage) 5mph bumpers being one ..... they then became 2.5mph with some damage.

EPA ...Mercedes had lots of trouble in the 70's and late 70's early 80's BMW's were legendary for having problems. MB added a fuel cooler to the SL .... built into the low side of the AC -- it would turn the AC on to keep the engine from vapor locking.

My late 70's XJS had hoses all over the engine. The engines were forced to run hotter with the same cooling system as before the changes ... so they had to be perfect .. and often were not.

 

I do remember in 1996 I was down in the Keys and met my cousin who was driving her dad's 1996 XJS. I remember saying wow. That is really nice. And then my next question was "does it have a lot of problems"? Then in 1997 the XK-8/R came out and I couldn't believe how perfect it was. In 1999, my brother sold his 911 S, (993 zenith blue, wide body) and couldn't wait to order the XKR. Fully loaded the sticker was over $100,000.00. But it was gorgeous! Black on Black, the best interior. Who can ask for more. My other brother quickly also got an XK. My brother, who raced cars for years was selling his 911 to get in on this new

car! Well the car was gorgeous. But it wasn't a sports car even in the "R". It had the proportions of a sports car that I love. Long hood, short rear. So we raced it at Bridge Hampton, Long Island (no longer there). We went with a few friends. The cars were BMW Z8, Ferrari 355, Porsche 911, Aston Martin Vantage, M3. There were others but I forget which ones. What I remember was the Jag was fine on the straights, but not good in the twistys. I would guess that an XK8 wouldn't run with the sports cars of this era, but an XKR should of. It was fun on the track, but not that much fun as others. Jag should of made the R more hard

core. Not just HP, but the right suspension setup. And they should of supported the XK with after market items. This was the era of the "M" coming on strong and so was Mercedes and Audi. I felt that they were still behind the competition. But not everyone races, I get that. But car magazines just went with the competition on every test. Yet I felt they had the right ingredients to win or at least compete. They had the

body, HP, interior, rear seat, and a trunk. The follow up XK was the same. And is it me or every XK today is an "R"? The XK, just by having a rear seat becomes a desirable car just like the 911. It should be directly challenging Porsche. And when you add the trunk, the Jag wins. Maybe VW should of bought Jag?

 

Garyres: Chicken / Egg situation?

Customer comes into dealership and wants a Jaguar. Drives a couple .. base sedan too small ... XJR too hard .... VDP too expensive. They make the XJ8L - the original intent was not to produce a L.

Lots of women bought VDP's -- You would see them with very low miles around me .. often very wealthy buyers. 6cyl -- 8cyl .. who cares! I guess longer is better.

The XJR's were not an easy sell for Jaguar .. and they had limited things they could do to the suspension to make it appeal tot he typical buyer

My local dealer -- a very high volume dealer .... hated the Silverstone and the 100's .. they could not sell them ... people found them too hard .. and overpriced. They would sit .. I remember a 100 siting for a year.

The "M" for BMW was and evolutionary experiment that has worked out extremely well for BMW .. they also have a much younger buyer for the less expensive products.

And while Porsche IMO is completely different -- as the cars became more able to be used as daily drivers the rear seats became extremely important. My 996tt was my daily driver .. and this surprised me! No way no how with an earlier one .. especially with a passenger.

 

My 997 was a daily driver for 5 yrs. At that time my kids were small and fit in the back. And, if I wanted, I could track the 911 on weekends. I agree with

all you said. Matter of fact, that is every reason the XK8 should of out sold the SL (forget the 911). The SL was a GT like the Jag yet out sold it by thousands of units. And the new SL, I don't even like, out sells the XK. On

paper, the XK is much better value all around. Its funny, but that was my point of my original statement. Jag owners (not all but most) don't get involved with their cars. This is why there is not a huge after market for

performance add on's for the Jags. Not true for many other brands. If Sunday is nice on Long Island, I bet I see 5-7 Jags show up just to see whats going on. Thats a beginning. And they will Park by the Ferrari's and Porsche's and look like they fit in. Just yesterday, I saw a 2002 XJR with 19 inch rims, red

calipers. And had a great burble to the exhaust. The car was special. Nothing looks like it. And most people didn't even know what it was. I remember the

silverstones. I also remember that they sat on the lots for a long time. Also, something I never stated was when i bought my 1999 XJR for $70,000.00, in 2005, I traded it in to the Porsche dealer for $10,000.00. That resale value stayed with me for a long time and left a bad taste for me for Jags.

 

Guys,

Go on facebook and search for "Gold coast Exotics Club". Send friend request. Any meets or shows will be posted. Hope to see you all.

Gary

 

Garyres: While the XK8 was a successful car for Jaguar I thought it should have been a better model for them (sales) -- especially the coupe. For the life of me I don't understand how they could understand and be an early CPO adopter and completely miss out on the need to support the warranty as a way to build confidence. They always had a decent customer service relationship IMO. Lexus rewrote the book -- Jaguar should have found a way to copy.

Without brand confidence the secondary market was never going to grow enough to support the resale prices .. so the new car buyer had to have the resources to eat the higher loss when replacing. Many coming from other makes were not happy when ending ownership. I actually leased a few of mine and then bought them back after re-pricing .. outside of the lease.

The XK8 was a better car then the SL at that time -- IMO. Having grown up around MB's when they were so mechanical -- the newer ones while technological marvels lack some of that in your face engineering.

 

That is because we like Jaguars. But, yes, Lexus rewrote the book. Even when they were boring, they sold many. And people loved the service dept. In this business, you can't play catch up. You need to lead. You disappear off peoples want list too long, and its over and will take yrs to get back. Hopefully, they got the message. The F type may be their way out of the bottom.

 

I don't know if its just around here and the car shows that I go to, but it seems Jaguars participate in car shows at a much, much, much higher rate than Mercedes. While I see lots more old Mercedes on the road everywhere, I almost never see a Mercedes at an open car show or cruise night. We even have one big show a year in north Dallas, in the heart of the pricey neighborhood where Ross Perot and George Bush live, where Mercedes swarm the local streets like a colony of ants, yet Jaguars will outnumber Mercedes 4 to 1 at that car show. Perhaps they think that having one 1955 300SL Gullwing present excuses everyone else from showing up. I know a few Lexus owners too (I used to have one), but they mostly stick to their own events and rarely participate in open car shows that are dominated by domestic brands. Perhaps Mercedes are off having their own events too, but I'd expect to see a whole lot more of them at a posh event in their own neighborhood that's actually dominated by European brands. Perhaps on a percentage of total cars manufactured, Jaguar really has a pretty good rate of participation in the car hobby. I don't know how we'd ever get any numbers to compare, but while we're probably far below Porsche participation, we're probably light years ahead of many other brands.

 

Since I own a 69 Corvette, I have to defend the C3. I've heard some grumpy old men say the last Corvette rolled off the line in 1967. Everyone has their own opinion but I think it gets a bad rap. Sure they had to lower the HP so it could run unleaded gas and meet the new emissions requirements but that doesn't stop the user from making modifications. Its still the same 350 capable of 400+ hp with just a few parts from the Summit catalog. And sure they had to put rubber bumpers on the ends, but of all the cars they did that too without a total re-design, the Corvette actually still looked pretty darned good. The poor Camaro by comparison got truck bumpers. Corvette sales went up despite the government imposed changes. Today thanks to the government, the C3 shares one thing in common with the XJS and 308. They're both a low cost of entry into what would otherwise be a very exclusive club. You get some very passionate participants that way.

 

No argument from me. I love Corvettes

In fact I'm elbow deep in getting a '64 roadworthy again!


Cheers
DD

 

I love the C3. It wasn't until 1973, that I think Corvette was declining. The rear was the same, but the front rubber nose didn't do it for me.I recently tracked the C7, and I could tell you that Corvette is back. If we are talking about HP, Stock Porsches weren't that fast in that period. It wasn't until 1984, when the HP war slowly started to creep up again. 911 Became the Carrera, Ferraris 308 became the 328 and the new Corvette arrived. All did low 6's, high 5's 0-60. The year before, 1983, they did 7's, 0-60. I was 20 yrs old in 1983 and bought the Mustang GT. 0-60 was 7 seconds with a 14.9 quarter. Nothing was faster. My Navigator does that today. For the record, C3 is my favorite. I'm having my drivers seat done in the Jag and my friends shop has 3, C3's from a collector. All I can say is wow. Not great drivers, but great to look at.

 

Guys. Please visit the Facebook page "LI Exotics Club". Ask for friend request. All

are welcome. A meet is scheduled for Sunday Morning in Plainview, NY. Free coffee. No fees, No Advertisers. Just car guys. I hope New Yorkers will show. I

would love to see some Jags! There will be over 100 cars of all types!

Gary