2000-2009 X350 Sunroof Repair HOW TO
#1
10-19-2014, 02:53 AM
2000-2009 X350 Sunroof Repair HOW TO
This is pieced together from several comments that I and others posted on the “Sunroof repair links threads?” topic that I initially started on 8 OCT 14 (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...hreads-128289/). I am hoping that this will help others on the How To of home sunroof repair on your Jag.
I’ll start with the background; I picked up and 05 XJR that I was told the sunroof didn’t open. When I was able to see it in person, I tried the button & heard the motor turn with an awful grinding sound partially through the cycles of opening and closing, but the glass itself only moved a couple millimeters when I did that. It didn’t leak and that was what I was concerned with at the time.
With the advice from BlackKat (Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum - View Profile: BlackKat), I learned that there are four screws that hold the glass in and a T15 (torx) bit screwdriver was needed to remove them. The glass will just lift out at that point. I’ll cover this later as well, but I feel it necessary to mention that after your inspection, when replacing the glass, the front and rear should be flush with the roof with no more than 1mm off either way. Set it aside in a safe place.
While the glass was out, I was able to see that the lift arms, cam brackets, and trough guides on both sides were in bits. I’ve included some pics of them. The local sunroof shop charges $90 for the inspection and diagnosis. If I opened it up and saw nothing amiss, then I would have gone to them. However, I was searching eBay for sunroof parts, entire assemblies, etc and came across the Sunroof Doctor that reported the set for a 2000-2002 Lincoln LS, for $131 delivered, would work for my 05 XJR (2000-2002 Lincoln LS Sunroof Repair Parts). It made sense as they’re made by Ford. I tried to find the part numbers to search other places, but had no luck.
I’m pretty mechanical and had nothing to lose so I ordered a set. I made an apt with the guru anyway just in case for a few days after the set was supposed to arrive so I could have my backside covered JIC and could cancel with them in time if it all worked out.
On to the HOW TO:
If you don't have the tools listed here, you'll need to get them. Here's what I used for the ENTIRE job. Small flat screwdriver to pop open the little bits on the visors, handles, etc. #2 cross-tip screwdriver to remove the visors, handles, etc. 1/4" socket set with 2" extension, 10mm & 8mm sockets. Torx head screw drivers; T15, T20 & T25. Cordless drill with 3/16" bit and two 1/8” drill bits. A rivet gun (the rivets are supplied in the kit), heat gun (a hair dryer would suffice though), set of channel locks, and a utility knife. I used a can of aerosol white lithium grease which I sprayed on the tracks to give some lube that won't dissipate over time. Before and after I put the motor back on, I applied a generous amount of the supplied grease to help keep it lubed. And a small tube of super glue.
The headliner removal was pretty straight forward. I lowered the seats and front seatbacks all the way to have room for the headliner to drop down. Start at the front and work your way to the rear. The A and the C pillar covers had to be unsnapped from their positions to facilitate the headliner removal. I didn’t need to detach the B pillar covers. The Third brake light just pops out when pulled. The visor wires were not able to be uncoupled until after the headliner was down. The rearview mirror has to be removed to unclip the wires from it and the front assembly should be pulled down from the windshield side first as the sunglasses dropdown has a piece that is over and under the headliner. You’ll see. The other handles, clips, & wires are pretty straight forward to remove.
Through the sunroof hole in the headliner and the sides of it, I was able to see the bolts holding the sunroof assembly to the roof and the drain hoses connected to all four corners of the assy. Those need to be disconnected first. There are two goldish metal brackets, one on each side, that have to be removed to get to some of the sunroof bolts. Two 8mm bolts per bracket and they come right off. There are nine 10mm sunroof bolts after that. There are three across the front and three per side.
I removed the front three and left the middle on the left side until I could remove all the others, leaving the middle on the right side so the chance of bending the assy was minimized by one bolt holding the entire thing in while I maneuvered around to get to it. I was able to control the removal a bit more. If you have a mate that can assist with this, then go for it. If not, take your time. The last thing you want to do is make it worse.
After numerous attempts to get the assy out of ALL the doors, with no success, I was left with the sunroof hole itself. With the sunroof visor closed, I was able to get one side out diagonally and “L’d” it out. A bit crude, but effective. Note: you don’t need to remove the wind deflector from the top/front of the assy.
This is the part where a good sized workbench is quite handy. If you don’t have one, find some way to improvise. The repair kit comes with a basic set of instructions for a Lincoln, but you will see what applies and what doesn’t. For instance, it has you drilling out three rivets on each of the end caps, but the Jags only have two per side. On that note, there is a piece of foam adhered to the end caps that will need to be carefully pulled away to reveal one of the rivets. The 3/16” drill bit, a good sharp one, will cut through easily; so don’t push too hard.
Once the rivets are out, there is the sealant that is keeping the end caps on. A heat gun or hair dryer, applied sparingly with a set of channel locks with easy, steady pressure pulling down while the metal is heating up and, hence, heating up the sealant allowing the end cap to come free. In an attempt to keep the visor as clean as possible, I removed it from the assy and set it aside.
Using the T20, remove the three bolts holding the motor in place. It needs to come out so you can slide the guides out and also to inspect the gear on it and the cable/gear it engages on the assy. You won’t be able to get the lift guides out with the motor in either. You will need to reuse a couple of the plastic pieces, so be gentle with all of it until you know what you have to reuse. You should also be taking a mental note of the order in which everything comes out so you can install the new parts in the proper order/orientation.
I stood it all on end and use brake cleaner to clear all the old gunk, grease, and grime from the tracks and any little bits that happen to be stuck in the tracks that you can’t see. It dries quickly and does a fine job. I used the white lithium grease spray on all the tracks then to help with the lubrication. The lit has grease and an applicator, but I wanted to save that for the parts themselves. I chose against regular WD-40 as it breaks down the grease and can actually cause more friction later down the road.
Attaching the guide to the cable and to the lift arms was a bit tricky, but the 1/8” drill bit to keep them aligned helped. Remember that the guide pivots and may be tight. A couple shots of white lithium and some working it back and forth helped. Slide them all the way up to the top. Follow that with the trough guide brackets and snap the new metal one and the existing plastic one into place.
While the motor is removed, use that opportunity to clean the old grease from it and ensure the teeth are in good nick. If all is well, grease it up and put it back into place. Don’t the bolts down yet as you’ll be removing the motor again after you put the assy back in the car. You can remove the 1/8” bits now as the motor will keep the guides in place. Put the sunroof visor back in at this point.
Now it’s time to replace the end caps. Be sure to install the rivets in the same direction they were removed and remember that one of the pieces you’re attaching is plastic, so be delicate. A little super glue will secure the foam back in place and seal the trough back up nicely. Now it’s time to put it back in the car.
The manner in which it was removed is the same in which you get it back in the car. Again, a mate would be helpful, but you can do it alone if you wish. It will take a bit longer and either way, be mindful of the paint.
When bolting it back in, it’s a good practice to not tighten them all until you have them all in place within a couple threads of finish so you can avoid alignment issues. Once bolted back in, you’ll need to attach the wiring to the control assy and remove the motor from the assy, then attach the wiring to it. Put the key in and turn it to position II. Press the sunroof button all the way down so it turns the motor to the completely open position. Then do the opposite so it’s in the closed position. Push it forward again to the “vent” position and then back to the fully closed position. You’ll be able to tell where it is due to the length of time the motor runs when each position is selected. As you have the guides in the closed position by design, you can install the motor securely now.
Attach all four drain hoses to each corner. Failure to do so will cause water to drain into your headliner, down the pillars, and all over the inside of the car. Test the operation of the arms if they move in the proper directions, etc. If you have it set properly, there will be no issues. Now it’s time to replace the glass. Ensuring the tabs are on the inside of the guides, put the screws back in, but don’t tighten them yet. Align the glass flush with the top of the roof or within 1mm below. If they are too high or too low, it can cause excessive wind noise when driving. When you have each corner set, snug that one down. Test it again. THIS IS THE MOMENT OF TRUTH. If you have done it right, you should have a functioning sunroof.
Replacing the headliner is, in my humble opinion, easier to do from rear to front. Raise the seat backs and the head rests to help lift it a bit more. Pop the third brake light back into place, then the C pillar covers, followed be the rear handles/lights, etc (just go in the reverse order of removal). There are some clips in the middle of the headliner that can be a nuisance to get snapped in, but keep at it and they’ll cooperate. You’ll know if they’re not in cause you’ll hear them rattle when driving (that’s how I found out).
Overall, this took me about three hours and saved me approx. $1400 if I had taken it to the guru as that was the “sight unseen” estimate from my description of the symptoms. I did see entire assemblies (used) for sale on eBay for about $350 delivered. I don’t know the condition of them and cannot attest to any future listings either. I didn't want to risk that much yet. I did not take more photos of my work as I was quite greasy with the old and new grease on all the parts.
I do not take responsibility for anyone doing their own work. This is what worked for me and is an account of my experience. Myself, anyone I mention, and forum cannot be held liable for any damage that takes place if you try this on your own and it does not work for you. If you have any doubt about your abilities to do this, I don’t recommend it. It’s your choice.
This is a list of Jags that the Sunroof Doctor claims these will fit:
2000, 2001, 2002 S-Type
2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 XJ8 & XJR
('00 '02 Lincoln LS Sunroof Repair Kit | eBay)
I’ll start with the background; I picked up and 05 XJR that I was told the sunroof didn’t open. When I was able to see it in person, I tried the button & heard the motor turn with an awful grinding sound partially through the cycles of opening and closing, but the glass itself only moved a couple millimeters when I did that. It didn’t leak and that was what I was concerned with at the time.
With the advice from BlackKat (Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum - View Profile: BlackKat), I learned that there are four screws that hold the glass in and a T15 (torx) bit screwdriver was needed to remove them. The glass will just lift out at that point. I’ll cover this later as well, but I feel it necessary to mention that after your inspection, when replacing the glass, the front and rear should be flush with the roof with no more than 1mm off either way. Set it aside in a safe place.
While the glass was out, I was able to see that the lift arms, cam brackets, and trough guides on both sides were in bits. I’ve included some pics of them. The local sunroof shop charges $90 for the inspection and diagnosis. If I opened it up and saw nothing amiss, then I would have gone to them. However, I was searching eBay for sunroof parts, entire assemblies, etc and came across the Sunroof Doctor that reported the set for a 2000-2002 Lincoln LS, for $131 delivered, would work for my 05 XJR (2000-2002 Lincoln LS Sunroof Repair Parts). It made sense as they’re made by Ford. I tried to find the part numbers to search other places, but had no luck.
I’m pretty mechanical and had nothing to lose so I ordered a set. I made an apt with the guru anyway just in case for a few days after the set was supposed to arrive so I could have my backside covered JIC and could cancel with them in time if it all worked out.
On to the HOW TO:
If you don't have the tools listed here, you'll need to get them. Here's what I used for the ENTIRE job. Small flat screwdriver to pop open the little bits on the visors, handles, etc. #2 cross-tip screwdriver to remove the visors, handles, etc. 1/4" socket set with 2" extension, 10mm & 8mm sockets. Torx head screw drivers; T15, T20 & T25. Cordless drill with 3/16" bit and two 1/8” drill bits. A rivet gun (the rivets are supplied in the kit), heat gun (a hair dryer would suffice though), set of channel locks, and a utility knife. I used a can of aerosol white lithium grease which I sprayed on the tracks to give some lube that won't dissipate over time. Before and after I put the motor back on, I applied a generous amount of the supplied grease to help keep it lubed. And a small tube of super glue.
The headliner removal was pretty straight forward. I lowered the seats and front seatbacks all the way to have room for the headliner to drop down. Start at the front and work your way to the rear. The A and the C pillar covers had to be unsnapped from their positions to facilitate the headliner removal. I didn’t need to detach the B pillar covers. The Third brake light just pops out when pulled. The visor wires were not able to be uncoupled until after the headliner was down. The rearview mirror has to be removed to unclip the wires from it and the front assembly should be pulled down from the windshield side first as the sunglasses dropdown has a piece that is over and under the headliner. You’ll see. The other handles, clips, & wires are pretty straight forward to remove.
Through the sunroof hole in the headliner and the sides of it, I was able to see the bolts holding the sunroof assembly to the roof and the drain hoses connected to all four corners of the assy. Those need to be disconnected first. There are two goldish metal brackets, one on each side, that have to be removed to get to some of the sunroof bolts. Two 8mm bolts per bracket and they come right off. There are nine 10mm sunroof bolts after that. There are three across the front and three per side.
I removed the front three and left the middle on the left side until I could remove all the others, leaving the middle on the right side so the chance of bending the assy was minimized by one bolt holding the entire thing in while I maneuvered around to get to it. I was able to control the removal a bit more. If you have a mate that can assist with this, then go for it. If not, take your time. The last thing you want to do is make it worse.
After numerous attempts to get the assy out of ALL the doors, with no success, I was left with the sunroof hole itself. With the sunroof visor closed, I was able to get one side out diagonally and “L’d” it out. A bit crude, but effective. Note: you don’t need to remove the wind deflector from the top/front of the assy.
This is the part where a good sized workbench is quite handy. If you don’t have one, find some way to improvise. The repair kit comes with a basic set of instructions for a Lincoln, but you will see what applies and what doesn’t. For instance, it has you drilling out three rivets on each of the end caps, but the Jags only have two per side. On that note, there is a piece of foam adhered to the end caps that will need to be carefully pulled away to reveal one of the rivets. The 3/16” drill bit, a good sharp one, will cut through easily; so don’t push too hard.
Once the rivets are out, there is the sealant that is keeping the end caps on. A heat gun or hair dryer, applied sparingly with a set of channel locks with easy, steady pressure pulling down while the metal is heating up and, hence, heating up the sealant allowing the end cap to come free. In an attempt to keep the visor as clean as possible, I removed it from the assy and set it aside.
Using the T20, remove the three bolts holding the motor in place. It needs to come out so you can slide the guides out and also to inspect the gear on it and the cable/gear it engages on the assy. You won’t be able to get the lift guides out with the motor in either. You will need to reuse a couple of the plastic pieces, so be gentle with all of it until you know what you have to reuse. You should also be taking a mental note of the order in which everything comes out so you can install the new parts in the proper order/orientation.
I stood it all on end and use brake cleaner to clear all the old gunk, grease, and grime from the tracks and any little bits that happen to be stuck in the tracks that you can’t see. It dries quickly and does a fine job. I used the white lithium grease spray on all the tracks then to help with the lubrication. The lit has grease and an applicator, but I wanted to save that for the parts themselves. I chose against regular WD-40 as it breaks down the grease and can actually cause more friction later down the road.
Attaching the guide to the cable and to the lift arms was a bit tricky, but the 1/8” drill bit to keep them aligned helped. Remember that the guide pivots and may be tight. A couple shots of white lithium and some working it back and forth helped. Slide them all the way up to the top. Follow that with the trough guide brackets and snap the new metal one and the existing plastic one into place.
While the motor is removed, use that opportunity to clean the old grease from it and ensure the teeth are in good nick. If all is well, grease it up and put it back into place. Don’t the bolts down yet as you’ll be removing the motor again after you put the assy back in the car. You can remove the 1/8” bits now as the motor will keep the guides in place. Put the sunroof visor back in at this point.
Now it’s time to replace the end caps. Be sure to install the rivets in the same direction they were removed and remember that one of the pieces you’re attaching is plastic, so be delicate. A little super glue will secure the foam back in place and seal the trough back up nicely. Now it’s time to put it back in the car.
The manner in which it was removed is the same in which you get it back in the car. Again, a mate would be helpful, but you can do it alone if you wish. It will take a bit longer and either way, be mindful of the paint.
When bolting it back in, it’s a good practice to not tighten them all until you have them all in place within a couple threads of finish so you can avoid alignment issues. Once bolted back in, you’ll need to attach the wiring to the control assy and remove the motor from the assy, then attach the wiring to it. Put the key in and turn it to position II. Press the sunroof button all the way down so it turns the motor to the completely open position. Then do the opposite so it’s in the closed position. Push it forward again to the “vent” position and then back to the fully closed position. You’ll be able to tell where it is due to the length of time the motor runs when each position is selected. As you have the guides in the closed position by design, you can install the motor securely now.
Attach all four drain hoses to each corner. Failure to do so will cause water to drain into your headliner, down the pillars, and all over the inside of the car. Test the operation of the arms if they move in the proper directions, etc. If you have it set properly, there will be no issues. Now it’s time to replace the glass. Ensuring the tabs are on the inside of the guides, put the screws back in, but don’t tighten them yet. Align the glass flush with the top of the roof or within 1mm below. If they are too high or too low, it can cause excessive wind noise when driving. When you have each corner set, snug that one down. Test it again. THIS IS THE MOMENT OF TRUTH. If you have done it right, you should have a functioning sunroof.
Replacing the headliner is, in my humble opinion, easier to do from rear to front. Raise the seat backs and the head rests to help lift it a bit more. Pop the third brake light back into place, then the C pillar covers, followed be the rear handles/lights, etc (just go in the reverse order of removal). There are some clips in the middle of the headliner that can be a nuisance to get snapped in, but keep at it and they’ll cooperate. You’ll know if they’re not in cause you’ll hear them rattle when driving (that’s how I found out).
Overall, this took me about three hours and saved me approx. $1400 if I had taken it to the guru as that was the “sight unseen” estimate from my description of the symptoms. I did see entire assemblies (used) for sale on eBay for about $350 delivered. I don’t know the condition of them and cannot attest to any future listings either. I didn't want to risk that much yet. I did not take more photos of my work as I was quite greasy with the old and new grease on all the parts.
I do not take responsibility for anyone doing their own work. This is what worked for me and is an account of my experience. Myself, anyone I mention, and forum cannot be held liable for any damage that takes place if you try this on your own and it does not work for you. If you have any doubt about your abilities to do this, I don’t recommend it. It’s your choice.
This is a list of Jags that the Sunroof Doctor claims these will fit:
2000, 2001, 2002 S-Type
2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 XJ8 & XJR
('00 '02 Lincoln LS Sunroof Repair Kit | eBay)
#2
10-19-2014, 09:59 PM
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#3
10-20-2014, 06:22 AM
Senior Member
Hi Ragman when you did the sunroof did you notice if it was possible to remove the sunroof sunshade
I had my headlining done 3 moths ago and the guy didn't do my sunroof sunshade
2 days ago its dropped its fabric and I was wondering if I remove the glass panel can I remove the sunshade through the sunroof hole instead of dropping the whole headliner again
frustrating when you pay for a job and they don't do it right
I had my headlining done 3 moths ago and the guy didn't do my sunroof sunshade
2 days ago its dropped its fabric and I was wondering if I remove the glass panel can I remove the sunshade through the sunroof hole instead of dropping the whole headliner again
frustrating when you pay for a job and they don't do it right
#5
11-03-2014, 08:05 PM
Senior Member
Well Rag man you are right went to the trimmers yesterday organised a sunroof specialist to come out and remove the glass thinking we could remove the sunshade through the front not possible
we figured we could get the sunshade out but would never get it back in again
Going back to the trimmers and he is going to drop the hood lining
In my honest opinion I feel like starting a complaint with Jaguar a car that costs so much that within ten years the fabric is falling
I have noticed this seems to be a common problem with modern cars but on a car that costs so much this shouldn't be happening
we figured we could get the sunshade out but would never get it back in again
Going back to the trimmers and he is going to drop the hood lining
In my honest opinion I feel like starting a complaint with Jaguar a car that costs so much that within ten years the fabric is falling
I have noticed this seems to be a common problem with modern cars but on a car that costs so much this shouldn't be happening
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#6
11-03-2014, 09:28 PM
Well Rag man you are right went to the trimmers yesterday organised a sunroof specialist to come out and remove the glass thinking we could remove the sunshade through the front not possible
we figured we could get the sunshade out but would never get it back in again
Going back to the trimmers and he is going to drop the hood lining
In my honest opinion I feel like starting a complaint with Jaguar a car that costs so much that within ten years the fabric is falling
I have noticed this seems to be a common problem with modern cars but on a car that costs so much this shouldn't be happening
we figured we could get the sunshade out but would never get it back in again
Going back to the trimmers and he is going to drop the hood lining
In my honest opinion I feel like starting a complaint with Jaguar a car that costs so much that within ten years the fabric is falling
I have noticed this seems to be a common problem with modern cars but on a car that costs so much this shouldn't be happening
2nd, I'd sign that petition! This 05 XJR being my 5th Jag this year, is the only one that doesnt have a saggy liner. Upholstery screws remedied the issues of the past. The key, IMHO, is cemetry and keeping the count as low as possible while ensuring the contour is maintained.
I've added a couple pics of the 03 VDP headliner. Unfortunately, no work on the sunroof cover itself.
Please keep us posted!
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#7
11-03-2014, 09:33 PM
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#8
11-04-2014, 10:05 AM
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#9
11-04-2014, 11:18 AM
Howdy,
Not sure how the weather is in TX about now, but, IMHO, if you have no more than four hours and an extra set of hands avail on occasion during that time, I would venture to say you could still take this on. Just my humble opinion.
R,
Rags
Not sure how the weather is in TX about now, but, IMHO, if you have no more than four hours and an extra set of hands avail on occasion during that time, I would venture to say you could still take this on. Just my humble opinion.
R,
Rags
#10
11-04-2014, 11:22 AM
#11
11-06-2014, 07:42 AM
Senior Member
#12
11-06-2014, 08:27 AM
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Well, It has also answered one of my questions. I ripped off the hanging sunroof screen fabric as it looked terrible.
Now I know I have to remove the headlining to get the piece out. Can anyone recommend a good spray or glue to use to ensure that the fabric doesn't drop again?
Now I know I have to remove the headlining to get the piece out. Can anyone recommend a good spray or glue to use to ensure that the fabric doesn't drop again?
Hi trosty,
When I did the headliner in our '93, I did some research on adhesives and learned that 3M and Permatex have spray adhesives specifically formulated for headliners. One of the qualities designed into the adhesive is high temperature tolerance, which will be very important for you in Texas. Here's one link to specs for 3M spray adhesives:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/3...aerosol-3m.PDF
Note that the popular Super 77 adhesive is only rated to 110 deg. F, and the Hi-Strength 90 is rated to 160 F, but the Headliner Spray Adhesive is rated to 170 F.
Permatex, DAP, Loctite, Elmers, Heads Up and others also offer headliner spray adhesives, but I ruled out the ones that did not give a specific temperature rating and opted for the 3M. I think I recall that the Permatex temperature rating was similar.
Welcome to Jag-lovers - Members Photo Viewing Page
Cheers,
Don
#13
11-06-2014, 02:53 PM
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#14
11-06-2014, 02:59 PM
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#15
11-06-2014, 04:25 PM
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#16
11-08-2014, 01:36 AM
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01-27-2018, 10:53 PM
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#18
01-28-2018, 10:41 AM
Veteran Member
Thanks for the detailed write up. I’ve a xj350 with water leak into driver floor and left passenger floor. Seems like water is running along the path of the line down the pillars and depositing in car floor.
did you mention there are 4 drain tubes? The diagram shows only 2
did you mention there are 4 drain tubes? The diagram shows only 2
Last edited by Don B; 01-28-2018 at 08:00 PM. Reason: added a missing letter
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#19
01-28-2018, 08:02 PM
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Thanks for the detailed write up. I’ve a xj350 with water leak into driver floor and left passenger floor. Seems like water is running along the path of the line down the pillars and depositing in car floor.
did you mention there are 4 drain tubes? The diagram shows only 2
did you mention there are 4 drain tubes? The diagram shows only 2
Hi JaguarPwned,
Welcome to the Jaguar Forums! It's great to have you with us.
Please visit the New Member Area - Intro a MUST and post a required introduction so we can learn something about you and your Jaguar and give you a proper welcome.
Cheers,
Don
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