XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 2003 - 2009

Knock & Rattle: Connecting Rod

  #21  
Old 03-18-2017, 08:23 PM
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Default Connecting Rod

It was a beautiful day in most of Tennessee today, but not in our driveway.

In preparation for manually rotating the engine so I could inspect for what I had begun to hope was a broken valve spring, I removed the coils and plugs from Bank 2. I disconnected some coolant hoses and removed the reservoir for better access.

I disconnected the supercharger belt and spent some time listening with my stethoscope as I spun the pulley. The S/C was definitely not the source of the engine noise.

Access to the bolt that secures the harmonic balancer to the crank is obstructed by a couple of rigid pipes (high pressure A/C lines probably - I didn't take the time to identify them). Working by feel alone, I found that a 24mm socket fit the bolt. I fitted a short extension and ratchet and slipped a long curtain rod tube over the ratchet handle for better leverage and control.

I wanted to establish TDC on cylinder 1 so I could tell when I had rotated the engine through two full rotations, to be sure I inspected all the valve buckets at the point when they were in their highest positions (valves fully closed).

I inserted a long wooden dowel in the cylinder 1 spark plug hole until its end rested on the top of the piston. I then rotated the engine and watched the dowel rise. When it just began to descend from its highest point, I made a mark on the dowel to indicate TDC. I used one of the air spring studs as a reference point for my TDC mark.

Once I had cylinder 1 at TDC, I thought to myself, I may as well rule out a connecting rod/bearing problem before I begin checking the valves. Here's the result:


Considering my options. Opinions welcome.

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-18-2017 at 09:00 PM.
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  #22  
Old 03-18-2017, 08:27 PM
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Hi Don,

Might be a bottom end issue. May have to drop the oil pan to check the crank, connecting rods, etc. Is that the only sound you get on #1? Did you rotate all 8 cylinders?
 
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  #23  
Old 03-18-2017, 08:35 PM
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Don, that is very bad news indeed. Standard engine lower end rebuild rules apply.
 
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Old 03-18-2017, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by abonano
Hi Don,

Might be a bottom end issue. May have to drop the oil pan to check the crank, connecting rods, etc. Is that the only sound you get on #1? Did you rotate all 8 cylinders?

I didn't check any of the other cylinders because I knew what cylinder 1 was telling me, and I decided I needed to take a break, watch some basketball and think.

Maybe tomorrow I'll check other cylinders to see what they tell me.

Does anyone know if a bottom end job can be done on an X350 without pulling the engine? I have an engine support bar so I could drop the subframe. I'd prefer to avoid pulling the engine if possible for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that I've been on the lookout for a Super V8 to replace this XJR. So I'd like to do a proper repair but not go overboard on a full engine rebuild, which would be hard for me to resist if I pull the engine, and then I won't want to part with the car for another 100K miles.

The one major unknown is the condition of the crank, which would absolutely have to be reusable since it's NLA from Jaguar and would probably cost more than the car is worth anyway.

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-18-2017 at 10:15 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-18-2017, 08:57 PM
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oh don . that sucks .

i watched this video a wile back . i didn't think yours sounded the same as this .
so i ruled out gudgeon noise .
but it seems your not alone .

have a look at this same deal .

 
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  #26  
Old 03-18-2017, 09:16 PM
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Thanks datasports,

That does look like a very similar problem, and on cylinder 1 also. Unfortunately, he doesn't show what the problem turned out to be. Spun bearing? Gudgeon pin?
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-18-2017 at 09:21 PM.
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  #27  
Old 03-19-2017, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Don B
Thanks datasports,

That does look like a very similar problem, and on cylinder 1 also. Unfortunately, he doesn't show what the problem turned out to be. Spun bearing? Gudgeon pin?
I had a read through the comments , and several others say they have the same issue , one guy asked if he repaired or replaced the engine , and this was his reply -
quote Mercedes Benz Techs,
ended up replacing the engine, could not find bearings from jaguar, so I Asume big end ,
the reply was dated 2 weeks ago ,
When I saw this vidio a wile back this reply did not exist and I figured it was a failed gudgon/piston .

Il bet the crank needed grinding , and he was searching for undersize bearings,
In which I doubt there will be a brilliant selection , speculation I know ! But
From what I've seen if the crank is scored in these engines then the engine is toast , unless you have deep pockets or find a good spair crank .
And I believe the S/C crank is heavier duty than N/A
I think a second hand engine will be the most cost effective route ,

Ether way , with this happening to a few people including your self , now I'm thinking I should rap my STR up in a blanket and put it away for safe keeping .
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:55 AM
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Don, very sorry that you are having this problem. You have been so helpful to everyone on this forum and I know I speak for all when I say that we feel your pain and wish we could help. No matter which end of the connecting rod the slack is coming from, it adds up to a big repair. I'm interested to hear if this job can be done from the bottom with the engine in the car.
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:15 AM
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+1 on that Don.

John
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:23 AM
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Donor motor may be the easiest and cheapest in the long run.
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:40 AM
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+1 on donor motor. Any route is going to be expensive. Sorry this happened Don.
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:05 AM
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Very rare, infortunate and probably expensive problem.
I am also sorry for you Don.
+1 also on a donor motor if crank/rod/bearing should be replaced, anything else will be more expensive overall.
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:18 AM
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Thanks for your kind words, guys.

Obviously, I'd like to find an easier and less expensive solution than a replacement engine, in part because I did an engine swap for a friend last fall and it really wore me out. The real problem was that the donor vehicle was from upstate New York and the undercarriage rust was so bad that every fastener was seized. I had to literally cut out the front 4WD components with a Sawzall in order to remove the engine, and it was no fun at all. But I can't argue that a donor motor may be the fastest and ultimately easiest and possibly even cheapest route to get this car back on the road. A motor already removed from the car would certainly save me time.

Studying the EPC, the pistons on the S/C cars are different but the block and crank appear to be shared with the N/A cars. I don't know if that will open up any options. I'd still be looking at a complete bottom end rebuild at the minimum. No suitable cranks listed on eBay, but why are so many X-Type cranks listed for sale???

I haven't checked to see which years of XJ and S-Type S/C engines are compatible with our '04. Does anyone know off the top of your head?

I really don't have time to focus full-time on repairing this car, so I'm thinking through options for acquiring another vehicle to take the pressure off of this project. Unfortunately, just two weeks ago I sold our mechanically-excellent '93 VDP to a friend, or I could have just driven that for awhile.

Searching online last night I saw a really nice '03 X308 at 110K miles asking a fair price, and I know most of the scary potential failures to use as negotiating points...

I have another idea: a friend has an "extra" '96 X300 that I recently brought back to life after it sat idle for a year (his diagnosis was fuel pump and they had the tank partially out, but it turned out to be a combination of electrical issues and failing CKPS). For many years it belonged to one of our mutual friends, a record producer who was also the long-term owner of an XJS V12. The '96 needs a good tuneup, front shock top bushings, transmission fluid flush and some other TLC. I'm thinking I might propose that if he'll let me drive it for a month or so while I repair the XJR, I'll do the work on his car at no cost to him. Does that seem like a fair trade?

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-23-2017 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:53 PM
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Beyond fair!!! Id loan you a car if I was much closer , and expect nothing for it ,
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:32 PM
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Don, I don't know if you've drained the oil, but the usual unmistakeable sign of big-end and mains bearing failure is white metal particles in the oil. The oil sparkles in the light ! Don't ask me how I know. OK, it was a Triumph motorcycle in about 1970. What a rattle that made !!
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:49 PM
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Don, heard about your misfortune thought I'd check your post.

You can only use a 4.2L crank in your car. The difference between the 4.0L and the 4.2L is the stroke. The rods are longer and the crank is redesigned or the pistons would hit the head with the longer rod.
I don't know if its been done but I think you can put a complete 4.0L block jn you car, your car would be a 4.0 instead of a 4.2. My 2000 xk8 has the oposite engineering., a 4.2 in a 4.0 car. Of course the block you get will need to be S/C. ,

Just a couple of thoights, good luck

Bob
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:27 PM
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Last edited by viper1996; 03-19-2017 at 06:32 PM.
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  #38  
Old 03-19-2017, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BobRoy
You can only use a 4.2L crank in your car. The difference between the 4.0L and the 4.2L is the stroke. [snip] Of course the block you get will need to be S/C.
Hi Bob,

Yes, I knew a 4.0L crank wouldn't work - the question was whether the cranks were different between the 4.2L S/C and N/A engines. Based on a quick review of the EPC, it appears the same cranks were used in both the S/C and N/A engines, and no difference in the cylinder blocks is shown, but the pistons are different.

Cheers,

Don
 
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  #39  
Old 03-19-2017, 09:51 PM
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Viper1996,

Thank you for that very helpful information!

Cheers,

Don
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:48 PM
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The crank part # AJ89617.
List of
Fitment/Applications
Jaguar S-Type 4.2L V8 A/T Base 2003, 2004
Jaguar S-Type 4.2L V8 A/T R 2003, 2004
Jaguar S-Type 4.2L V8 Base 2006, 2007, 2008
Jaguar S-Type 4.2L V8 M/T Base 2003, 2004
Jaguar S-Type 4.2L V8 R 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
Jaguar S-Type 4.2L V8 Sport 2005
Jaguar S-Type 4.2L V8 VDP Edition 2006
Jaguar XF 4.2L Base 2010
Jaguar XF Luxury 2009
Jaguar XF Premium Luxury 2009
Jaguar XF Supercharged 2009
Jaguar XJ8 Base 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Jaguar XJ8 L 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Jaguar XJR Base 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Jaguar XK Base Convertible 2007, 2008, 2009
Jaguar XK Base Coupe 2007, 2008, 2009
Jaguar XK8 Base Convertible 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006
Jaguar XK8 Base Coupe 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006
Jaguar XK8 Victory Edition Convertible 2006
Jaguar XK8 Victory Edition Coupe 2006
Jaguar XKR Base Convertible 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Jaguar XKR Base Coupe 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Jaguar XKR Portfolio Convertible 2008, 2009
Jaguar XKR Portfolio Coupe 2008, 2009
Jaguar XKR Victory Edition Convertible 2006
Jaguar XKR Victory Edition Coupe 2006


Now you have a couple of options.

If you get a replacement crank you will probably need all new bearings. If you get your crank machined you can get by with needing only bearings for that journal.
 
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