Straight from the horse's mouth:

May 31, 2011

Thank you for contacting ZF Service North America in regards to your 2005 Jaguar. Oil service questions are by far the most common inquiry received since the start of our life time oil fill. ZF fluid if of very high quality and capable of life time service in most applications. To address this I have attached a letter written to our distributers regarding oil service. I believe this will address your questions but feel free to respond if something is left unanswered.

If I'm correct the noise you are referring to occurred during the 3-4 / 4-3 shift and was due to the clutch plates humming during apply. Your dealer drained 1 liter of fluid and replaced it with a liter of fluid containing additives to eliminate the noise. This was due to clutch plates humming during apply and was not a wear concern.

The bump from behind at stops may be due to normal internal wear combined with programming not accounting for this wear. I recommend contacting your Jaguar dealer to see if any updates are available to address this. While some independent service centers claim they have the ability to update software only your Jaguar dealer has access to factory support as well as ZF support where all problems are researched. If a fix is available the dealer will make this recommendation. If a more serious problem exists your dealer will be able to diagnose this as well.

April 26th 2011

ZF Automatic Passenger car parts distributers

Dear Distributor:

It has come to our attention there is confusion in the field regarding service intervals and fluid recommendations for ZF 5HP and 6HP applications.

ZF has promoted lifetime service for many 5HP and 6HP factory filled transmissions. Lifetime is not clearly defined and each OEM manufacture has there own philosophy. ZF stands behind lifetime recommendation where listed in the vehicle operator’s manual. ZF engineered and tested our fluids to retain its characteristics through normal lifetime operating conditions. However, a spirited driving style, special environmental considerations and other individual driving factors may place higher than normal loads on transmission fluids. To assure proper operation it is advisable to perform a drain and fill at 100,000km/62,000 miles or eight years.

Due to the complexity of operation, high output of current engine offerings and the expectation drivers place on their ZF equipped vehicles ZF only endorses the use of ZF Lifeguard Fluids and parts or OEM approved fluids and parts. Fluids and parts not approved for use by ZF or the original equipment manufacturers have not been tested and may not meet the required demands. Use of these fluids or parts will void factory warranties and warranties placed on aftermarket transmissions remanufactured by ZF. The use of any fluid additives is prohibited as the result will unpredictably change fluid properties potentially resulting in transmission failure.

Some fluids previously recommended were factory fill or available only in the European market. To simplify obtaining the correct recommended fluids ZF now offers Lifguardfluid5, Lifeguardfluid6 and Lifeguardfluid8.

Finally there are some customers that feel the need to perform a transmission oil service as part of their regular maintenance. Changing the fluid more often is entirely their decision. Properly performed oil service will not damage the transmission. Most problems occur due to improper refill procedures, incorrect fluid and or non OE parts or with transmissions that already have a drivability problem. Use of ZF or OE parts and fluid is strongly recommended for best results,

 

Thanks for inquiring for everyone!

 

What in the whole wide world did you think they were going to say?

Glad to see this subject reopened. We had about 30 posts on this topic, pro & con, about 18 months ago.

More to follow? You bet!

 

WOW !! Was that ever non informative or what?? If their parts & fluid are not working so well on these $70,000 luxury cars why would anyone feel guilty stepping outside the "approved area" to try other sources & experiment!!

Typical factory / dealer reference at all costs with our money. The strength of this forum is the ingenuity and curiosity which has created and discovered many better ways to handle our cars.

Yes some items are best done by dealer ( if they are good ) but we all have shared some horror stories.

 

WOW !
So now they say that yet neither they nor Jag bothered to put in a typical drain/fill/level check system.Unreal.

You know what I was thinking...
According to all the Jaguar manuals and factory information I have seen, they clearly state that no maintemance whatsoever is required ("sealed for life etc), I wonder what the legal implications would be against them (Jaguar ) if a tranny failed at over 62 K miles with original fliud in it and following their instructions; yet as ZF states it should have been changed by then?

 

Nice job man. Thanks!!

 

Are you referring to their entire response or one particular part? Honestly I think it answers a lot of questions.

Most if not all manufacturers use some form of accelerated stress tests to determine the longevity of their products but as is stated they don't take into account every possible variable and therefore are now suggesting that certain scenarios may require maintenance. I think ZF engineered their products to be maintenance free but the real world has shown that perhaps this was not the best idea after all, leaving us with a product that is somewhat difficult to service now. Perhaps this will have some bearing on future designs.

I was motivated to contact ZF for a more clear answer as to their recommendation. I am a firm believer that if something is not "broken" leave it alone. IF their fluids are of such quality/design that they do not breakdown over time and use then why bother messing with them? I am still not convinced however.

 

It is a tough call. There are not any independent shops in my area that feel comfortable working on these cars and not any that I would trust either. It is a bit frustrating that these cars are engineered to such specific tolerances that they require such training and expertise to service.

While the dealership is incredibly expensive and not always perfect, they are my best option for many things not covered by the 100K mile warranty if I am unable to perform the services myself. This is the first time I have taken a car past original factory warranty and it is a little scary. But it is one of my favourites and there is nothing on the market at the moment that I would care to replace it with.

 

Let me state at the onset that I believe the ZF line of transmissions are 1st rate products and the best transmissions since the GM Turbo Hydromatic 400. Further, I don't regard the Jag ZF transmissions as unreliable in the context of current auto technology.

Assuming that the latest policy statements from ZF, as posted by Hummer, are accurate, I deduce that ZF has made a subtle and artfully stated policy "shift" as related to Jags. I say artful as you can read the policy and come to any conclusion that floats your boat. I think they support the Stevetech AKA Jagtech11 position in the following ways:

1. ZF acknowledges that for some cars, with some drivers, under some conditions a fluid change short of 100K miles may be helpful.

2. ZF recognises that other fluids are being used in their transmissions but they only recommend their in house Lifeguard brand. Not an unreasonable position says I, given that they are in business to sell their own stuff.

My personal belief is that some of these new to the mkt synthetic ATF fluids (including Mobil1 ATF) are later and superior formulations to ZF Lifeguard. I'm not qualified to support this belief in any objective way so I defer to Stevetech's analysis.

Conclusion: at the first sign of funny business with your out of warranty Jag xmission -- the first, best, safest and least expensive recourse is a change of fluid and/or filter. The last recourse is a transmission "reprogram". Brand and type of fluid is owners choice.

I flushed out my xmission at 50K with Mobil 1 ATF with good results. I will change the filter and fluid at 80K, God willing.

 

translation:

Jaguar drivers == spirited drivers

or, at least the ones found on the forum.

 

This is according to Mobil 1:

Does Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF Meet the Requirements for ZF Transmissions?

Answer:
No. We do not guarantee that the product meets all the requirements of ZF transmissions, which are very extensive depending on the transmission type/model year.


Looks like the closest non-ZF fluid is Shell M-1375.4 from what I have researched. But like others have said, why not just use Lifeguardfluid6?

 

Hummer,

I must admit, your work gives one pause.

 

Guess it is the engineer in me

I must know how everything works and must know what is correct. I can't stand misinformation. Although I did a substantial amount of research on this subject not evidenced here and I am done!

 

What he said!!

 

Why buy other than ZF fluid? The pan/filter with fluid is under $300 and just 2 hours labor for the whole job. One thing not addressed is the that pan bolts will need replacing and make sure to have them ahead of time. My Jag shop has replaced a few tranny pans and fluid; 100% of them needed new bolts.

The trans pan was leaking at 78K, so it was a warranted service for me either way. Trans is a lot quieter and smooth shifting. I feel confident in the car going over 100K without issues.

 

Jahummer,

For the benefit of those of us who are running Mobil 1 ATF are you able to determine in what areas the Mobile 1 product fails to meet M 1375.4 ?

I'm completely satisfied with how it is working for me, but given your research so far, I'm concerned that over time something will bite me in the *** (xmission). The work done by "stevetech" over a year ago is now in question and he has not stepped up to defend it. I'm not sure Stevetech is still a Forum participant.

There are more than a few indie Jag shops out there installing Mobile 1 ATF. If the stuff is seriously deficient for the long pull we should get the word out.

 

The differences, obviously, are in the chemical formulations. For one, ZF engineered the fluid to last the lifetime of the transmission and not need to be replaced whereas products such as Redline and Mobil 1 were designed to be replaced during set service intervals. Another difference is viscosity which is critical for proper lubrication and how it maintains viscosity & volume/mass while under temperature, you don't want too much mass when it gets too hot and too little when it gets cold.

"Spirited driving" leaves so much room for interpretation that it means little, if anything.

What I would really like to know, since ZF designed this tranny & fluid to not need service under normal use, what would really happen if we followed their & Jaguar's recommendation? Think about it, it is not in their best interests not to make it a regular service item they could be charging clients hundreds of dollars for every 30-60K miles. Not looking for hypothetical theories as we have had plenty of those on this forum already but individuals who have miles on their vehicles and still have working transmissions that never have been serviced. Has anyone tested the old fluid or compared it to fresh Lifeguardfluid6?

 

Exactly! While the Shell and a certain Ford oil may be the same fluid, ZF fluid is readily available and no longer at the outrageous prices it was originally.

But for kicks, has anyone check with Hyundai to see how much they sell the fluid for?

 

Some will be interested to know that Ford and Lincoln both recommend 24 qt ZF 6HP26 transmission fluid flushes every 60,000 miles with Mercon SP and now a nearby Jag dealer is offering ZF fluid flushes and differential flushes.

Guess they are no longer sealed for life... :/

Also check my new thread here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...es-okay-72309/

 

interesting