So, I recently renewed the secondary timing chain tensioners, and I finally got everything put back together, and on Saturday evening finally got the car running...after about two hours of not wanting to start (would crank, but no fire) it finally went (Had to build up fuel pressure from it sitting at a very slight incline). Well, now that it runs, it idles rough, get smooth between 700-1175 then from about 1200-1500 get rough again, and is fine all the way up to 3000... But when it hits 3k RPM it really gets rough and it just bounces off 3000 (rev limiter?)

It is still in RP mode.

Codes would help us all, but there is something going on with the electronics that won't let me pull the codes (communication error).... I guess right now without any codes or any actual information could this just be as simple as a misfire due to a bad coil pack?

Before I put it all back together I had checked to make sure the flats of the cams were still lined up, which they were. So, I am thinking the likelihood of it being a cam timing issue is low... It did this to me the first time I moved it right after breaking the part load breather hose without even touching the cams... Could it be due to a vacuum leak from the PLB hose not being on? I've put in a temporary piece of vacuum hose to hold the pressure a bit...


Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

I hate to say it, but if the cam timing is the only thing that could have changed ... Did it run rough before ? Do you have fuel pressure ? Vacuum leaks ? You really need to get that code reader working, obviously. I wouldn't go revving it too much in the meantime. Keep the faith.

 

Any air leaks will cause rough idle, and there is a rev limiter at 3000.

 

That's what I thought, but what happened, is I took off the cam covers to inspect the tensioners, and put them back on... And that is when the issue started, before even touching the cams....

Now it has fuel pressure (40PSI)... The only thing that I can think of that it would be would be the coil packs.... But even I don't understand why...


Could it be caused by the leak from the PLB hose? (There is a piece of vacuum hose that I put on as a temporary fix... Starting the car with the broken PLB hose emitted a very loud, high pitched whistling noise. Putting the vacuum hose on and attaching it to the cam cover made it idle smoother and the noise went away.. Could it simply be because it isn't the correct fitting and still causing a slight vacuum leak?

I am still waiting for the PLB hose... SNG Barratt said they would receive it to their USA warehouse by the end of this week (Sept. 11)


As far as not being able to get any codes, I am hoping it is just a bad OBDII port, when I plug it in, it does the battery diagnostic just fine, telling me the output, but everything else, I get "system check" then the car lights up like a christmas tree.

 

+1 You have an air leak; most likely at the PLB fitting.

But, if the codes (if you can make that work -- maybe a different reader?) show all misfires are on one bank, then you may need to recheck the cam timing on that bank.

Also check the torque on your cam covers (air leaks) and check for oil in the spark plug well or plugs that are not properly torqued.

Pull the dipstick - if the idle doesn't change, check the o-ring sealing the dipstick (air leaks); and double check the air passage from the cleaner to the throttle body (air leaks).

 

Will a little brake parts cleaner be okay to spray around to check for air leaks? Or would I want to use something else.?

What should the torque be on the plugs?


I just put in 8 brand new BOSCH Iridiums (because no autoparts store in town carries NGK plugs for the car, and I cannot justify spending $2x.00 each)

 

What might be handy is a complete list of all you have done to the car since it last ran well.

See where I am going with this?

 

So here is a list of what I did to the car the first time (when I inspected the tensioners and started it up it ran roughly)
STARTED ON PASSENGER (USA) SIDE
Removed air box, air intake hose from TB, removed connector to air duct from valve cover.
Removed all coil packs, except the one foremost on the engine (closest to the radiator) as one of the bolts is stuck in/stripped/impossible to get out.

WENT TO THE DRIVERS SIDE (USA)
removed coil cover, discounted and removed coil packs. Removed dipstick off stud on cam cover (left dipstick in engine) removed all bolts holding the cam cover on (one of them snapped off when I removed the cover). As I removed the cam cover, the PLB hose snapped. Looked at red tensioners, reassembled everything in exact order I took it off. Tightened everything down on both sides.

STARTED THE CAR TO MOVE IT UP INTO THE DRIVEWAY OFF OF THE STREET
this is when I noticed exactly the same symptoms as I previously described with the idle. However, I did not rev the engine anymore than what was necessary to move the car, using only the transmission. Not depressing the accelerator.

 

Wait: so when did you put in the new plugs? Have you fixed/replaced the broken bolts (air leaks)? Are you sure you have the cam cover gaskets installed correctly?

If I understand you, it was running rough before you changed the secondary tensioners. Correct? With no change with rough running afterwards.

MAF sensor, throttle bore and plate, bad coil (how did you change the plug under the coil with the bad bolt?). Fuel filter.

To simplify my questions, has it ever run smoothly since you have owned it?

With a mirror, check to see if the posts on the OBD two terminals are all straight; then carefully connect your OBD two reader to try and get a good reading. We really need the codes.

 

Correct, it has ran rough since I first inspected the tensioners.. Cleaned MAF, throttle plate & bore, I put in the plugs AFTER I changed the tensioners, and I replaced the passenger side (the one that I couldn't get the coil out) BEFORE putting the valve cover back on (making sure they were free of debris before removing the plugs). I have not removed the old cam gaskets just yet. I put it all back together just to ensure that it would run..

The has run beautifully without any issue what so ever until the first time I took the cam cover off. Replaced broken bolts with new bolts (without the sleeve).

It has only been running poorly since the very first time I took the cam cover off... And when you say to check the OBD connector with a mirror, what exactly do you mean?

 

He means check the connector for bent pins.

 

Why would you put it all back together without new gaskets?


Order up the gasket kit, all the little rubber washers for the bolts and the sparkplug hole gaskets should be included.


ANY suspect hose should be renewed BEFORE you try to start the engine again.


When the engine is started, DO NOT touch the throttle pedal for 10 mins! just let it idle, ( high, then low to an almost stall and then settle ) this lets the ECU reset its values, this is probably why you cannot pull any codes, you are not letting the ECU time enough to establish any base line!

 

I have all new gaskets, but I am waiting for all the new bolts to come in, as I am replacing all of the bolts. No point in putting on the new gaskets if I am pulling it apart again. I just didn't want it to sit with the valve covers off any more than it already has.

On a side note, it looks like there is a POSSIBILITY of a bent pin, it will require a closer look to confirm... if that is the case, what would be the best path to fixing it?

 

I was finally able to pull some codes (simply held the OBDII connectors together really tightly!)



I have about 15 codes, it doesn't list what they all are, so I will put what it says for each one, and a ? next to the ones that it doesn't give a description of.

P0302- Cylinder 2 misfire detected
p0304- Cylinder 4 misfire detected
p1313- ?
p1316- ?
p0102- Mass or volume air flow circuit low input
p0112- Intake air temperature sensor 1 circuit low input
p0204- Injector circuit / open - cylinder 4
p0455- Evap system leak detected (gross leak/no flow (gas cap?))
p1230- ?
p1637- ?
p1638- ?
p1642- ?
p0204- Injector circuit / open- cylinder 4
p1000- ?
p1637- ?

 

Wow.

I do not believe you have clearly answered Jim Hartz's question. So, I will ask it a different way. Did the car run right just before you removed the valve covers?
If so, then obviously the question is what you have done to disturb it. As I understand it, you removed the cams. And I assume you used the "zip tie" method. Are you 100% sure you did not move a tooth while the cams were loose, either n the primary or the secondary chains?
If you are sure the cams sdid not move, then I suggest an OBD reset, then a hard boot, then try again to see what you get. Then begin working the codes off.

Another thing- you made mention of putting the covers back on "without the sleeve". That sounds like a bad idea. The valve covers, gaskets, and "sleeves" are a system meant to work together.

When you say you "cleaned MAF, throttle plate & bore", did you do that after the car began running rough or before? If before, why did you not mention it in the list of what you did?

I hate this to sound like an inquisition, but as mentioned before, it is really doubtful that you have these symptoms due to a vacuum leak so unless you broke several electrical connectors, the symptoms point towards a timing problem.

 

UPDATE:

Just cleared the codes: went from 15 down to 5...

Here is what it is throwing at me now:
p1638
p1642
p1000
p1637
p1643
not DTC info listed in my scanner for these codes.



sparkenzap:
Correct, the car ran smoothly prior to removing the cam covers, what happened is I removed the cam covers to inspect the tensioners.

Saw they were the old red plastic ones. (car ran perfect before removing the cam covers)
Since they were the plastic ones, I put the valve covers back on, and started the car to pull it into the driveway.
this is when the issue began... The only thing that I can confirm was damaged was the PLB hose... I did not touch the cam.

About 3 days later (the car had not moved) I removed the valve covers once again to actually do the job, overall the whole thing took about 2 weeks (only a couple of hours here and there, when I did the tensioners, it only took about 15 minutes.

So the issue did NOT begin after I removed the exhaust cams.
It began when I removed the valve cover for the very first time ever.

 

The codes you have are for the CAN bus, which is the network that several modules communicate with, and the ECU. The CAN bus also connects to the OBD port. So, i would first (with the battery disconnected) try and get where yoiu can tell what is happening inside your finicky OBD port. Make sure nothing is shorted together. Then, pull the diagrams and use a multimeter to troubleshoot the CAN bus interconnection wiring.
I cannot think of a connector that you should have disturbed pulling the covers that would affect the bus. I assume no wires were cut and you did not have some sort of water experience during this process? So, the root cause was trying to get the OBD plug connected, I would GUESS.

 

All the codes are in JTIS, I thought, with known causes, so worth a look.

 

P1000 OBD Systems Readiness Test Not Complete
P1637 CAN Link ECM/ABS Control Module Circuit/Network
P1638 CAN Link ECM/INSTM Circuit/Network
P1642 CAN Link Circuit
P1643 CAN Link Engine Control Module/Transmission Control Module Circuit/Network

Those are all of the current codes that it is throwing... Could it be due to a low battery possibly?

 

ANYTHING on these Jags can be down to a low/bad battery!


I don't think any two have the same symptoms, on mine, when I opened the drivers window fully, it would stay down for about 20 seconds, then shut itself and open the sunroof !?!?


Also check/clean all the grounds and power connections, especially the engine to body ground and the false bulkhead power stud.