I wasn't saying any of those cars don't look like jaguars, my point is that the engineering is compromised because they are pinned to other cars.

I agree designing doesn't happen overnight, the XJ started being designed in 2005. But what does that mean? Does it mean ford saw all these new models and was afraid of it crashing and burning? Or does it mean ford didn't approve and they couldn't pull the trigger until they were sold? Looking at the current lineup, I can't see anyway Ford looked at concepts for it and decided to drop Jaguar after seeing them. I am not saying I don't think Ford knew about them either. There is just a bit of info I am not aware that doesn't add up in terms of giving ford all the credit for the new lineup.

I also don't think Tata's cars matter, they seem to be leaving their hands off of jaguar/land rover and letting them create their own success, while raking in any profits they can. Seems like a better idea to me that taking a luxury brand and trying to turn a profit by throwing it on top of an economy brands sedan chassis.

You statement about not striking a balance between old and new reflects how long they haven't been able to update. They have been held back soooooo long that everyone has this idea that a jaguar has to have those four headlights up front with metal stretch around them. While I won't deny the XJ platform is an icon, I think the shift in its design is something that could have been seen long ago, and only seems very strange because the XJ look has been going for so long. I don't really approve of the front and rear lights of the XF, they look too much like every other car, but I think the main issue with Jaguar's success, or lack thereof, is the fact there are fewere dealerships and advertising to the competition, mainly along with the fact there are only a few cars and they are by no means entry level. You can buy a merc for 25k and get nicer and nicer ones as you move up in life, by that time you are committed. This isn't the most common situation necessarily, but they just aren't being competitive enough pricewise

 

Spike
In fact the X Type shares all of the following with the Mondeo (and I have run Mondeos for years and they are superb reliable very well built cars. I do not see any disgrace in a joint platform and the X Type is a very nice car IMO):

• Engines
• Drivetrain
• Gearboxes
• Suspension components
• Hubs and brakes
• Electrical systems
• Loom
• Floorpan and chassis hard points

Bit more than 12%, but as I say, so what?
Greg

 

I don't think it is a bad car, but many time a platform translates into the suspension and steering being very similar, who wants a Jag to drive like a ford mondeo? Again, not saying it is a bad car, but a Jag shouldn't feel like another car with a body kit on it.
I haven't driven one, so I don't know if they feel similar at all, but that is what many people are afraid of and what caused marketing issues.

To add to the "feel" issue, Fords are fairly practical cars, and Jaguar is supposed to be a luxury brand. Even if it stops and goes okay, you should be paying extra dollar for a more comfortable suspension that handles better, better performing brakes, and so on. If important pieces like that perform the same as a cheaper car and are designed with the compromise of a more economic car, I don't think many people agree that is something Jaguar should have been doing

 

Agreed SS. This highlights the problem for all upmarket auto makers. The 'ordinary' cars are so good now, that it is extremely hard to make significant dynamic differences in more expensive ones. IMO, the biggest difference between a European Ford and (eg) a BMW is what is going on inside the owner's head. Apart from marketing aura, interior luxury, bragging rights engine sizes, and pointless electronic gadgets; dynamically there is very little if any objective difference between a well sorted modern Ford and a more 'upmarket' brand.

But that aura is extremely powerful which is why the X type did not sell in anything like the numbers envisaged, in spite of being an excellent car. As all marketing people know, you do not sell the sausage, you sell the sizzle!
Greg

 

Ummmm.

 

Would you prefer I be dishonest and say I have driven both and they are identical, instead of just speculating that a car sharing the parts of another will make it feel the same and is a compromise of engineering?

 

I agree, I hate seeing higher end luxury cars compared to their American counter parts, which are essentially trim kits. Now I know they do treat them to a bit more than some trim, but you can't get around the fact that an escapade is a just a tahoe with some stuff added on it, doubling its price. This is just an example of many many "luxury" cars that are based off another platform. And not like the X type we were discussing before, it is literally the same car with some things changed or added. The idea that the only difference between a Ford fusion and its luxury upper end and a mercedes or BMW competitor is a body kit and some interior changes is ludicrous to me. The upper end cars that cost more are designed that way in every aspect, not just a couple of do dads and a suspension kit.

 

i agree greg, ordinary cars are so good nowadays, case of experience.

2013 i rented a new Hyundai SONATA , put 5000 miles in one month, from

Austin tx, to Seattle WA, and back and was completely amazed how good a driving car it was, cruise I-40 interstate 80+mph,hours on end, impressive handling and ride, had it up to 120mph couple times, no problem passing fast traffic. up in the high mountains of Colorado and Utah, 6000 ft, just as easy as flat road!
at my age sitting in the drivers seat for 8-9hrs, actually could still walk!!
of course stopping for lunch and fuel.

while we were in Seattle drove my daughters 2010 BMW some, it did not ride as smooth as the Sonata, if it handled better, i couldnt feel it.

after we were back austin , fuel use was an amazing 33.2 MPG for the whole trip,US gallon.

now this car was the 2.4L direct injection 4 cylinder, 7 speed auotmatic,
while on I-40 cruisin 80mph, a Mercedes passed in the fast lane, right behind him was a BMW, really cooking it,so i pulled out into fast lane and caught up to them running 100+ had no problem staying with them.

so some of todays cars are really great road , and you can buy some new for under $25K , also the fast cruising was almost silent, crack the window at 80+ and almost suck your head out side.


OK bottom line some of todays cars are fantastic!

and under appreciated. make excellent daily drivers.

 

Why speculate at all? I've driven both and noted very little in common.

I've also driven the Lincoln LS and Ford Thunderbird which share the basic platform with an S-type. Not much similarity, contrary to assumption.