Original Underbody Coating XJS V12
#21
10-15-2014, 07:24 PM
Veteran Member
On UK sold pre facelift cars built up to 1990, I am sure. it is quite possible that Jaguar realised in the 1980s that some coatings were needed for overseas cars, though. Even the facelifts, regardless of their zinc coatings and other things, rust away terribly in the UK climate.
Greg
Greg
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orangeblossom (10-16-2014)
#22
10-15-2014, 08:13 PM
Senior Member
be sure to check that stuff out to see if you agree with the texture. Bedliner and undercoating are two very different things. A lot of them come out looking like a sand paper coating and some of them are really glossy.
In term of not caring about originality though, matching it to your paint in your wheel wells can look really nice.
In term of not caring about originality though, matching it to your paint in your wheel wells can look really nice.
The texture can be varied depending on installation techniques. The gloss can be varied by using a flattening agent. If you had a msds sheet on both por-15 vs pick-up bed liner probably very little difference in the two, both are a urethane based product, just marketed to a different crowd.
I mentioned U-POL because it is a European product and everything I have used made by them has produced more then satisfactory results, being an euro product the cost factor should be decent since it does not involve international shipping
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orangeblossom (10-16-2014)
#23
10-15-2014, 10:13 PM
Veteran Member
yeah man, try it out. One of the cool things about it and the chassis paint, is that you can apply it with a roller and it will still even out to a nice finish, I have even seen paint brush jobs look really nice. This allows you to do one or two shots and end up with a very thick coating, which is key in this application. Its very difficult to do this in a canned product because it has to be thinned enough to be sprayed.
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orangeblossom (10-16-2014)
#24
10-16-2014, 05:36 AM
Veteran Member
OB,
Hi, Just to add my 2p-worth:
I don't know what Jaguar used in the 80s but by the early 90s they were definitely using a whole range of 3M products to support the build of the cars. This included underbody stonechip, cavity waxes, seam sealers etc. They are all identified with their 3M product number and detailed in the body repair section of the Service Manual. (You still haven't bought that yet, have you, Ha Ha!)
As regards your "sandpaper" body-coloured paint, that will almost definitely be a stone-chip paint coating used by Jaguar. That's a typical textured paint which is often applied to underfloor pans and lower sills as a way of having a body-coloured finish that is more resistant to chips and road debris than a high-gloss finish. These sort of paints are readily available.
However, whatever Jaguar used to prepare your car when new, technology has moved on and there are invariably better products on the market now. And you'll find a whole load of different views on the effectiveness of each product.
POR15 is a company with a range of products. I've used their preventative coating, but the prep on anything other than clean sand-blasted steel is quite laborious (and necessary). In addition, it's definitely UV-susceptible and will discolour if left unpainted with top coat. The POR15 Top Coat is an easier product to use.
Frost & Eastwood are both mail order companies that I've used. They have an extensive range of products although IMO, they aren't necessarily the cheapest around.
I've had good results with a number of the products from Rustbuster (Home - Rustbuster) in particular the Epoxy Mastic paint which is available in a number of colours and can also be overpainted. I used it on the chassis of an early Range Rover and it was still intact when the car was sold.
When it comes to wax-based coatings, there are a whole range on the market now. At one time, Waxoyl was the market leader but I think a lot of people consider there are better alternatives available. Mind you, repeated Waxoyl is better than nothing. I still have a few gallons of it in my garage! I now prefer the products from Dinitrol or Bilt Hamber. Dinitrol have certainly developed a whole range of specialist waxes that meet different criteria. Have a look at their products, you'll be staggered by the options. I've bought a lot of their rust converter fluids, cavity waxes and black waxes in the past few years.
However, the products that really interests me now are the clear preventative waxes that have been developed which are good for areas where you really don't want to coat it in black wax. Areas such as engine bay rails, suspension, lower body or even underbody floor pans look better in body colour paint with clear wax (IMO!). Dinitrol do 3 different clear waxes but the Dinitrol HP seems the most appropriate for engine bay and suspension because it won't go fully hard if exposed to temperature.
I'm going to order a single spray of both the Dinitrol HP and the Bilt Hamber UC (another clear wax) this week to see which I prefer.
You can buy direct from Bilt Hamber at Corrosion and Rust Prevention | Car Wax | Polish | Sealer | Award-Winning Surface & Vehicle Care Products | Bilt-Hamber UK As always you might get some discount codes to buy cheaper from other outlets.
Dinitrol use ww.rejel.com as their preferred online supply site. Good service and you can ask anything you want and purchase over the phone.
So there you are. Just my view. and I know that for everything I've written there'll be 10 other alternate views!
Read as much as you can , look at all the websites, go on YouTube and view all the positive and critical videos and then go for it! Unlike the original 70s underbody coatings which often hardened, cracked and then trapped moisture, rust-prevention is much better understood nowadays and the products better suited. But the best bit of advice I could give someone is to check the car every year before the winter, remedy problem areas and retreat. That's the only way, you'll really stop the rot getting too bad.
Good luck as always
Paul
Hi, Just to add my 2p-worth:
I don't know what Jaguar used in the 80s but by the early 90s they were definitely using a whole range of 3M products to support the build of the cars. This included underbody stonechip, cavity waxes, seam sealers etc. They are all identified with their 3M product number and detailed in the body repair section of the Service Manual. (You still haven't bought that yet, have you, Ha Ha!)
As regards your "sandpaper" body-coloured paint, that will almost definitely be a stone-chip paint coating used by Jaguar. That's a typical textured paint which is often applied to underfloor pans and lower sills as a way of having a body-coloured finish that is more resistant to chips and road debris than a high-gloss finish. These sort of paints are readily available.
However, whatever Jaguar used to prepare your car when new, technology has moved on and there are invariably better products on the market now. And you'll find a whole load of different views on the effectiveness of each product.
POR15 is a company with a range of products. I've used their preventative coating, but the prep on anything other than clean sand-blasted steel is quite laborious (and necessary). In addition, it's definitely UV-susceptible and will discolour if left unpainted with top coat. The POR15 Top Coat is an easier product to use.
Frost & Eastwood are both mail order companies that I've used. They have an extensive range of products although IMO, they aren't necessarily the cheapest around.
I've had good results with a number of the products from Rustbuster (Home - Rustbuster) in particular the Epoxy Mastic paint which is available in a number of colours and can also be overpainted. I used it on the chassis of an early Range Rover and it was still intact when the car was sold.
When it comes to wax-based coatings, there are a whole range on the market now. At one time, Waxoyl was the market leader but I think a lot of people consider there are better alternatives available. Mind you, repeated Waxoyl is better than nothing. I still have a few gallons of it in my garage! I now prefer the products from Dinitrol or Bilt Hamber. Dinitrol have certainly developed a whole range of specialist waxes that meet different criteria. Have a look at their products, you'll be staggered by the options. I've bought a lot of their rust converter fluids, cavity waxes and black waxes in the past few years.
However, the products that really interests me now are the clear preventative waxes that have been developed which are good for areas where you really don't want to coat it in black wax. Areas such as engine bay rails, suspension, lower body or even underbody floor pans look better in body colour paint with clear wax (IMO!). Dinitrol do 3 different clear waxes but the Dinitrol HP seems the most appropriate for engine bay and suspension because it won't go fully hard if exposed to temperature.
I'm going to order a single spray of both the Dinitrol HP and the Bilt Hamber UC (another clear wax) this week to see which I prefer.
You can buy direct from Bilt Hamber at Corrosion and Rust Prevention | Car Wax | Polish | Sealer | Award-Winning Surface & Vehicle Care Products | Bilt-Hamber UK As always you might get some discount codes to buy cheaper from other outlets.
Dinitrol use ww.rejel.com as their preferred online supply site. Good service and you can ask anything you want and purchase over the phone.
So there you are. Just my view. and I know that for everything I've written there'll be 10 other alternate views!
Read as much as you can , look at all the websites, go on YouTube and view all the positive and critical videos and then go for it! Unlike the original 70s underbody coatings which often hardened, cracked and then trapped moisture, rust-prevention is much better understood nowadays and the products better suited. But the best bit of advice I could give someone is to check the car every year before the winter, remedy problem areas and retreat. That's the only way, you'll really stop the rot getting too bad.
Good luck as always
Paul
The following users liked this post:
orangeblossom (10-16-2014)
#25
10-16-2014, 06:21 PM
OB,
Hi, Just to add my 2p-worth:
I don't know what Jaguar used in the 80s but by the early 90s they were definitely using a whole range of 3M products to support the build of the cars. This included underbody stonechip, cavity waxes, seam sealers etc. They are all identified with their 3M product number and detailed in the body repair section of the Service Manual. (You still haven't bought that yet, have you, Ha Ha!)
As regards your "sandpaper" body-coloured paint, that will almost definitely be a stone-chip paint coating used by Jaguar. That's a typical textured paint which is often applied to underfloor pans and lower sills as a way of having a body-coloured finish that is more resistant to chips and road debris than a high-gloss finish. These sort of paints are readily available.
However, whatever Jaguar used to prepare your car when new, technology has moved on and there are invariably better products on the market now. And you'll find a whole load of different views on the effectiveness of each product.
POR15 is a company with a range of products. I've used their preventative coating, but the prep on anything other than clean sand-blasted steel is quite laborious (and necessary). In addition, it's definitely UV-susceptible and will discolour if left unpainted with top coat. The POR15 Top Coat is an easier product to use.
Frost & Eastwood are both mail order companies that I've used. They have an extensive range of products although IMO, they aren't necessarily the cheapest around.
I've had good results with a number of the products from Rustbuster (Home - Rustbuster) in particular the Epoxy Mastic paint which is available in a number of colours and can also be overpainted. I used it on the chassis of an early Range Rover and it was still intact when the car was sold.
When it comes to wax-based coatings, there are a whole range on the market now. At one time, Waxoyl was the market leader but I think a lot of people consider there are better alternatives available. Mind you, repeated Waxoyl is better than nothing. I still have a few gallons of it in my garage! I now prefer the products from Dinitrol or Bilt Hamber. Dinitrol have certainly developed a whole range of specialist waxes that meet different criteria. Have a look at their products, you'll be staggered by the options. I've bought a lot of their rust converter fluids, cavity waxes and black waxes in the past few years.
However, the products that really interests me now are the clear preventative waxes that have been developed which are good for areas where you really don't want to coat it in black wax. Areas such as engine bay rails, suspension, lower body or even underbody floor pans look better in body colour paint with clear wax (IMO!). Dinitrol do 3 different clear waxes but the Dinitrol HP seems the most appropriate for engine bay and suspension because it won't go fully hard if exposed to temperature.
I'm going to order a single spray of both the Dinitrol HP and the Bilt Hamber UC (another clear wax) this week to see which I prefer.
You can buy direct from Bilt Hamber at Corrosion and Rust Prevention | Car Wax | Polish | Sealer | Award-Winning Surface & Vehicle Care Products | Bilt-Hamber UK As always you might get some discount codes to buy cheaper from other outlets.
Dinitrol use ww.rejel.com as their preferred online supply site. Good service and you can ask anything you want and purchase over the phone.
So there you are. Just my view. and I know that for everything I've written there'll be 10 other alternate views!
Read as much as you can , look at all the websites, go on YouTube and view all the positive and critical videos and then go for it! Unlike the original 70s underbody coatings which often hardened, cracked and then trapped moisture, rust-prevention is much better understood nowadays and the products better suited. But the best bit of advice I could give someone is to check the car every year before the winter, remedy problem areas and retreat. That's the only way, you'll really stop the rot getting too bad.
Good luck as always
Paul
Hi, Just to add my 2p-worth:
I don't know what Jaguar used in the 80s but by the early 90s they were definitely using a whole range of 3M products to support the build of the cars. This included underbody stonechip, cavity waxes, seam sealers etc. They are all identified with their 3M product number and detailed in the body repair section of the Service Manual. (You still haven't bought that yet, have you, Ha Ha!)
As regards your "sandpaper" body-coloured paint, that will almost definitely be a stone-chip paint coating used by Jaguar. That's a typical textured paint which is often applied to underfloor pans and lower sills as a way of having a body-coloured finish that is more resistant to chips and road debris than a high-gloss finish. These sort of paints are readily available.
However, whatever Jaguar used to prepare your car when new, technology has moved on and there are invariably better products on the market now. And you'll find a whole load of different views on the effectiveness of each product.
POR15 is a company with a range of products. I've used their preventative coating, but the prep on anything other than clean sand-blasted steel is quite laborious (and necessary). In addition, it's definitely UV-susceptible and will discolour if left unpainted with top coat. The POR15 Top Coat is an easier product to use.
Frost & Eastwood are both mail order companies that I've used. They have an extensive range of products although IMO, they aren't necessarily the cheapest around.
I've had good results with a number of the products from Rustbuster (Home - Rustbuster) in particular the Epoxy Mastic paint which is available in a number of colours and can also be overpainted. I used it on the chassis of an early Range Rover and it was still intact when the car was sold.
When it comes to wax-based coatings, there are a whole range on the market now. At one time, Waxoyl was the market leader but I think a lot of people consider there are better alternatives available. Mind you, repeated Waxoyl is better than nothing. I still have a few gallons of it in my garage! I now prefer the products from Dinitrol or Bilt Hamber. Dinitrol have certainly developed a whole range of specialist waxes that meet different criteria. Have a look at their products, you'll be staggered by the options. I've bought a lot of their rust converter fluids, cavity waxes and black waxes in the past few years.
However, the products that really interests me now are the clear preventative waxes that have been developed which are good for areas where you really don't want to coat it in black wax. Areas such as engine bay rails, suspension, lower body or even underbody floor pans look better in body colour paint with clear wax (IMO!). Dinitrol do 3 different clear waxes but the Dinitrol HP seems the most appropriate for engine bay and suspension because it won't go fully hard if exposed to temperature.
I'm going to order a single spray of both the Dinitrol HP and the Bilt Hamber UC (another clear wax) this week to see which I prefer.
You can buy direct from Bilt Hamber at Corrosion and Rust Prevention | Car Wax | Polish | Sealer | Award-Winning Surface & Vehicle Care Products | Bilt-Hamber UK As always you might get some discount codes to buy cheaper from other outlets.
Dinitrol use ww.rejel.com as their preferred online supply site. Good service and you can ask anything you want and purchase over the phone.
So there you are. Just my view. and I know that for everything I've written there'll be 10 other alternate views!
Read as much as you can , look at all the websites, go on YouTube and view all the positive and critical videos and then go for it! Unlike the original 70s underbody coatings which often hardened, cracked and then trapped moisture, rust-prevention is much better understood nowadays and the products better suited. But the best bit of advice I could give someone is to check the car every year before the winter, remedy problem areas and retreat. That's the only way, you'll really stop the rot getting too bad.
Good luck as always
Paul
I was really hoping that you would reply because your knowledge of XJS never fails to astound me, so need I say more than that's what I call a 2p worth!
I've been using Wax Oyl for years and re-wax both my Merc and my Jags every single year as a matter of course and am pleased to report that it certainly helps to keep the rust at bay.
Having said that the original coating looked a lot more like 'Stone Chip' (as you mentioned) so might experiment with that on one of my XJS's that still has the original under body coating.
#26
10-16-2014, 06:23 PM
yeah man, try it out. One of the cool things about it and the chassis paint, is that you can apply it with a roller and it will still even out to a nice finish, I have even seen paint brush jobs look really nice. This allows you to do one or two shots and end up with a very thick coating, which is key in this application. Its very difficult to do this in a canned product because it has to be thinned enough to be sprayed.
I will certainly get a can of the Stuff to try out.
#27
10-17-2014, 01:55 AM
Veteran Member
As PJTS said, the problem with these POR type coatings is getting the surface they are applied to properly prepared. The surface has to be 100% degreased and preferably acid treated a bit (eg eastwood's Metal prep) and roughed up afterwards. If not the stuff will not protect as it should.
It is nearly impossible to prepare the underside of an XJS to this standard unless the entire shell is emptied and it is chemically treated by one of the specialist companies in the UK who have facilities to get the shell and all its nooks and crannies 100% cleaned to the required standard.
On the XJS there are also loads of bits that rust dreadfully that it is impossible to get to with a tool of any sort to prepare the surface. This is the reason that I believe a sprayable treatment is the best solution for the normal owner, plus layering of the treatments (as I mentioned earlier I use aquasteel/zinc chromate/wax). If you can get to the surface to prepare it properly, eg the inside of the floorpans, then POR type treatments are excellent.
A treatment that can creep into seams and corners to neutralise rust and thus prevent it coming up from below the subsequent layers is required, which is why I used the first layer of aquasteel (no affiliations I hasten to add). If the steel brackets I welded up holding up my sunblind are anything to go by, the stuff with a spray of decent metal paint on top is magic!
Greg
Greg
It is nearly impossible to prepare the underside of an XJS to this standard unless the entire shell is emptied and it is chemically treated by one of the specialist companies in the UK who have facilities to get the shell and all its nooks and crannies 100% cleaned to the required standard.
On the XJS there are also loads of bits that rust dreadfully that it is impossible to get to with a tool of any sort to prepare the surface. This is the reason that I believe a sprayable treatment is the best solution for the normal owner, plus layering of the treatments (as I mentioned earlier I use aquasteel/zinc chromate/wax). If you can get to the surface to prepare it properly, eg the inside of the floorpans, then POR type treatments are excellent.
A treatment that can creep into seams and corners to neutralise rust and thus prevent it coming up from below the subsequent layers is required, which is why I used the first layer of aquasteel (no affiliations I hasten to add). If the steel brackets I welded up holding up my sunblind are anything to go by, the stuff with a spray of decent metal paint on top is magic!
Greg
Greg
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orangeblossom (10-18-2014)
#28
10-18-2014, 11:48 AM
As PJTS said, the problem with these POR type coatings is getting the surface they are applied to properly prepared. The surface has to be 100% degreased and preferably acid treated a bit (eg eastwood's Metal prep) and roughed up afterwards. If not the stuff will not protect as it should.
It is nearly impossible to prepare the underside of an XJS to this standard unless the entire shell is emptied and it is chemically treated by one of the specialist companies in the UK who have facilities to get the shell and all its nooks and crannies 100% cleaned to the required standard.
On the XJS there are also loads of bits that rust dreadfully that it is impossible to get to with a tool of any sort to prepare the surface. This is the reason that I believe a sprayable treatment is the best solution for the normal owner, plus layering of the treatments (as I mentioned earlier I use aquasteel/zinc chromate/wax). If you can get to the surface to prepare it properly, eg the inside of the floorpans, then POR type treatments are excellent.
A treatment that can creep into seams and corners to neutralise rust and thus prevent it coming up from below the subsequent layers is required, which is why I used the first layer of aquasteel (no affiliations I hasten to add). If the steel brackets I welded up holding up my sunblind are anything to go by, the stuff with a spray of decent metal paint on top is magic!
Greg
Greg
It is nearly impossible to prepare the underside of an XJS to this standard unless the entire shell is emptied and it is chemically treated by one of the specialist companies in the UK who have facilities to get the shell and all its nooks and crannies 100% cleaned to the required standard.
On the XJS there are also loads of bits that rust dreadfully that it is impossible to get to with a tool of any sort to prepare the surface. This is the reason that I believe a sprayable treatment is the best solution for the normal owner, plus layering of the treatments (as I mentioned earlier I use aquasteel/zinc chromate/wax). If you can get to the surface to prepare it properly, eg the inside of the floorpans, then POR type treatments are excellent.
A treatment that can creep into seams and corners to neutralise rust and thus prevent it coming up from below the subsequent layers is required, which is why I used the first layer of aquasteel (no affiliations I hasten to add). If the steel brackets I welded up holding up my sunblind are anything to go by, the stuff with a spray of decent metal paint on top is magic!
Greg
Greg
I see what you mean, so POR 15 is probably not the Stuff to use for this particular job.
Aqua Steel with some paint on top sounds just what I need.
#29
10-21-2014, 05:33 PM
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something i noticed on my 1978 XJS european (Kent UK), the windshield posts had foam rubber inserted into them, maybe for sound or vibration reduction.
but what if the car was parked in a hi-humidity area, would the foam soak in some almost permenent moisture, and increase internal rust in the windshield posts(i dug it all out and left that space empty)! sprayed with waxoil!
what could they be thinking(JAG) back then?
but what if the car was parked in a hi-humidity area, would the foam soak in some almost permenent moisture, and increase internal rust in the windshield posts(i dug it all out and left that space empty)! sprayed with waxoil!
what could they be thinking(JAG) back then?
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