Bleeding the Brakes on an XJS

Everyones favorite job (not!)

But what is the Best device for Bleeding the Brakes, or the one that you've found to be the most Successful.

I've tried one of those tubes with a non return valve but it wouldn't stay on the bleed valve.

And one of those pressure bleeders, that didn't work for me and finally resorted to a polythene tube and a Jam Jar which sort of worked up to a point.

But has anyone managed to 'crack the code' and found a 'fool proof' way of Bleeding the Brakes.

Apart from the access problem of getting under the Car, I've found that Bleeding the Rear Brakes, is a whole lot easier than doing the ones on the Front.

 

lots of people swear by gravity bleeding.

hose and jam jar, don't pump ... let gravity do the work

let the hose run up, then down to the jam jar, but keep the jam jar
just above the bleed nipple.

instead of a jam jar, a plastic bottle with a magnet taped on it
works well

be sure to keep reservoir full at all times or you get to start over
again

another method is the reverse pressure bleed ...

syringe and tubing to brake nipple, crack nipple, force fluid into system

 

Hi Plums

I like the idea of Gravity Bleeding, I've not tried that one before but as for Reverse Bleeding, that is an absolute NO NO!

Forcing Fluid the wrong way up the System, is the quickest way to Completely Wreck your Master Cylinder Actuator.

That is why its essential to leave the Bleed Screws open when you change your Brake Pads, as if you lever the Pistons back into the Calipers.

It can send Contaminated Fluid the Wrong Way up into the System, which in turn can totally Wreck your Master Cylinder, where any Spare Parts

are virtually impossible to come by.

 

OB

Once you find one that works, let me know! Chez nous it is one in the car doing the brake pedal, one on the step ladder topping up the reservoir, and me crouched underneath the ramp with a tube, a non-return valve, and a jamjar. The NR valve helps but is no good without the jamjar as well; but you MUST close the nipple after each time the pedal is depressed and before the car-person lifts their foot. As in 'down (opening nipple as the push begins);hold (close nipple); up'. Windows down so the car person can hear your muffled commands!

Horrible, horrible job. The reason why most people never change their fluid! And as you say, in my experience none of the devices work.

RGP has those non-return valve bleed niplles that he has found work really well, but I have not tried them, maybe we should.

Greg

 

Hi Greg

I thought it would be simple (ish) but it was a nightmare job! and I'm not quite sure if I've made them worse, than when I bled them the first time.

The Non return valve thingy I bought, wouldn't let the Air out, never mind the fluid and also kept on blowing off the Bleed Screw.

The Polythene tube and Jam Jar didn't work much better either, not helped by the fact it was raining, nearly all day long.

What we need if there is such a thing, is a bleed screw that incorporates a non return Valve, like you can get for your home radiators.

Which would let the Air out but not let it back in.

I also used 5L Brake Fluid, which now seems to be quite normal everytime I bleed the Brakes.

Do you or anyone have a link to the Post by RGP Re: Brake Bleeding Tubes with non return valves.

 

aquarium air tubing is the perfect size

plastic bottle and magnet is far superior to a jam jar because
you don't have to hold it

the reason you want the tubing to first run up from the nipple,
then down again is that it maintains a column of brake fluid
above the open bleeder

the reason you want the bottle above the nipple is to avoid
suctioning from the bottle which pulls air from around the
nipple threads

for the really OCD ... coat the base of the exposed nipple
thread with some silcone grease from the brake lubricant
tube to reduce air going around the thread

the reverse bleed is a matter of judgement requiring that
you be confident that previous recent bleeding has purged
all contaminants and it is only the bubbles you are after

another trick to get that final last bit is to wedge the brake
pedal down after pulling the brake light fuse and leave it
overnight. this compresses the air bubbles and also lets the
bubbles migrate ever so slowly upwards to the master cylinder

when the pedal is released, the bubbles will finish up in the
reservoir after transiting the relief port

ps. i also like to tap the flexible lines with the bleeder wrench
to help dislodge any bubbles.

 

BLEEDING HELL
I use a big hypodermic syringe used for stem cell transplant available from chemists with plastic pipe, you may have to put grease round the nipple to stop drawing air in though

 

Hi rgp

Thanks,

Now that looks like it might actually work! (for a change!)

 

I just did my daily driver last weekend. Having tried speed bleeders without success in the past, and a rigged up vacuum system using Mason jars, again without success, I've resigned myself to this being a two person job. Once you get a system going with your helper it works well and is very fast.
For me, the vacuum fail has always been air being drawn around the nipple threads.
I was tempted with a top pressure system but that needs different fittings for different cars. Also I sometimes feel better about myself drinking beer with a human around.

 

Whenever I'm working on my Car, I like to do in peace and quiet with no one else around.

The last time I had someone lend a hand, it all went horribly wrong and is still a work in progress that is going to cost me a lot of time and money to sort out.

 

OB

Non-return bleed valves:

"The ‘Easy Bleed’ kit is a Remote Bleed kit from Fosseway Performance that transforms the process of bleeding Jaguar inboard disc brakes. The clever design turns this tiresome job into a single handed operation and you can even bleed the rear brakes with all four wheels firmly on the ground!
Special ‘Solo Bleed’ non-return bleed nipples ensure trouble free operation and our innovative hose layout means that both calipers can be bled from the same side of the vehicle." Remote Bleed Kit for Jaguar IRS Brakes - Fosseway PerformanceFosseway Performance

I am sure they have these jobbies for the fronts too. Another link and a diagram:

> Operation - Bleeding brakes - simply intelligent oil change, leakfree disconnect lines! Our solution: The stahlbus Bleeder Valve, the stahlbus Oil drain valve and the stahlbus Quick disconnect coupling.

A google search shows other makes etc. I have never tried these, so they do not come recommended, but I have been sorely tempted for a long time.

Also, re: the non-return valve, are you sure you had it the right way round? There is usually a VERY hard to see arrow engraved on them, and I also had this problem until I realised I had the device pointing the wrong way!

Greg

 

OB,

As your brake bleeding occurrences seem to be more frequent than your bowel movements, I do think it is important that you buy some good kit for the job!

At the risk of insulting you, are you sure you didn't fit the NR valve pipe the wrong way round on the car? That might explain why nothing would pass through the tube and it blew off the bleed nipple.

It is now possible to buy NR bleed nipples. They seem to be quite hard to find but one company that manufactures them is Stahibus. There's also a few videos on YouTube of their fitment. They are not something I've considered yet, but in your situation, could be a good investment!

Have a look at the Stahibus website here:

> Operation - Bleeding brakes - simply intelligent oil change, leakfree disconnect lines! Our solution: The stahlbus Bleeder Valve, the stahlbus Oil drain valve and the stahlbus Quick disconnect coupling.

Then if you're interested head over to Demon Tweeks or another UK supplier.

Cheers

Paul

 

Hi Paul

Its absolutely impossible to use the device the wrong way round, as its just a piece of clear Polythene Pipe with a Great Big non return dongle on the other end.

The only problem being that they put a flimsy rubber (one size fits all connector) on the end of the bit you put on the Bleed Nipple and this keeps coming off.

Even though it has a sort of polythene clip on that end, which is supposed to keep it in place.

No doubt its ok for most Cars but I found it awkward to use on the Jag.

 

Hi Greg

Thanks,

Its a nice piece of Kit but I don't want to spend all that money on one at the moment.

 

I use NRV's quite successfully, but I use a small cable tie to hold the rubber tube on the nipple.
Did my xj6 on my own,worked ok for me. I usually get help with a car,but last time I was on my own.
I have done it this way for many years on my bikes with no problems,just a little time consuming putting on cable tie's and cutting them for each nipple. But you can do it on your own.

 

Problem Solved and here is how I did it.

First of all I got myself a Syringe like rpg together with a piece of Polythene Tube that was a really good fit on the Bleed Nipple and a good fit on the Syringe.

Then used it to try and Suck the Brake Fluid, from the Reservoir to the Caliper, unfortunately this method didn't really work that well for me.

So next I tried 'Gravity Bleeding' as suggested by 'Plums'

I already had the Polythene Tube, which was a really good fit on the 'Bleed Nipple'

So I put the Tube on the 'Bleed Nipple' and then tied the middle of the Tube, to the Top of the 'Shock Absorber'

In order that any Brake Fluid, coming out of the Caliper would have to Climb up hill, before going down again into the Jam Jar.

Then I opened the 'Bleed Nipple' half a turn, at which point the Brake Fluid came out of the Caliper and started to climb up the Tube, together will some Air Bubbles!

The Fluid only Climbed about Six inches up the Tube, so I got into the Car and 'dabbed' the Brake Pedal (only little touches not the pedal to the floor)

Then got out and checked the progress of the Brake Fluid in the Tube, which was nearly up to the top of the bend, where I had tied the Tube to the Top of the Shock Absorber.

With lots of little Air Bubbles, making their way up the Tube, I stopped for a Cuppa, after topping up the Reservoir.

Ten minutes later all the Bubbles had gone and even a few more 'dabbs' on the Brakes failed to produce any more, at which point Brakes Fluid was starting to drip in the Jam Jar.

The next thing I did was to get the leg of a plastic garden table and jammed it between the Brake Pedal and the little shelf that's just under the Seat. (it was a perfect fit)

Then I did up the Bleed Nipple and removed the leg of the Table, that I had used to jam the pedal down.

After which I did the same to the other side.

These are the Front Brakes only, as the Rears require a different method.

The whole job including Jacking up, removing the Wheels and getting the Tools etc took almost exactly 90 minutes, without any rushing about.

The Result was a Rock Hard Pedal, for just a few pence for the piece of Tube.

So 'Plums' you were right, it does work incredibly well!

 

Hi Clarke

Thanks,

I never thought of using cable ties!

In the end I resorted to Gravity Bleeding, as suggested by 'Plums' and that worked a Treat!

 

Gravity Bleeding did the Job!

Many Thanks for that suggestion, it worked incredibly well.

 

Without reading everyone's posts I use a Pela Pump, absolutely brilliant, these are designed for removing engine oil but once pumped up, will bleed a brake system in minutes.
Sorry if someone else has posted the same thing.
Quick, Easy & Clean Oil Changes with PELA Products

 

We just need to know what make of garden chair now OB!

Congrats
Greg