Howdy!

[please pardon all the backstory.. tl;dr: my first problem is a battery glitch, see below...]

A couple of months ago, I bought my second XJS from a forum thread here. The car is a '93 4 liter convertible with less than 70k miles and some relatively minor fire damage in the trunk.

When I bought it, the car started and ran, most everything worked, and I embarked on a journey to drive it about 700 miles home. The initial problems were:

• A FF44 code.
• Very stutter-y throttle response at low speeds (intermittent, likely related to the FF44).
• No speedo (trunk fire).
• No turn signals (ditto).

However, as the first day of driving went on, I gained increasing confidence in the car, which ran strong at speed on the interstate, and made the decision to continue rolling the dice on Day Two.

On the second day, however, the car suffered a cascading series of failures that ended up stranding me (in bad weather) half a day short of home. This included (but is not limited to):

• Glove box knob failing (guess where the signed title was located ).
• Driver's-side door handle failing (locking me out of my running car ).
• Engine stalling a couple of times and finally refusing to start (stranded ).

The final problem seemed to be fuel related, because the car acted just like it ran out of gas (but didn't). However, I've sworn off all guessing in that regard. Anyway, I got the car shipped on a trailer to a local shop that has been willing to work on my first XJS (they mainly work on the Germanic stuff). They were backlogged for various reasons and excuses, and didn't get around to looking at my car for a month. Then, after they finally looked at it, decided that they didn't want to work on my car at all (it's a parts car, not worth fixing, blah, blah, blah..)!

Seriously? (deep breath...)

Okay, so two months later, I finally have room at my house to work on the car. I started working on it tonight. I have to get it running and through state safety inspection ASAP. Right then, so uno problemo...

Ticket #1: Battery Power

I knew the battery would be dead, so that is where I'm starting. I put it on a charger this evening before dinner. The security ECU started chirping right off (so I'm expecting that to be a future debug). The charger (an inexpensive but modern Schumacher unit from wally-world), reports the battery at full charge when I return from dinner. That was fast. Wait, not so fast.., there's hardly any power after the charger automatically went into maintenance mode. No lights, shifter stuck in park, etc. After jacking around with the charger, I get it to cough up a 99% charge with 6 volts report from its display, which is obviously a dysfunctional result. The charger won't stay on its 15 amp charging mode because it thinks the battery is charged, but the battery and/or the charger's maintenance mode will not power the car properly.

So, is this battery toast, or is there something else I can try here?

Thanks heaps!

 

First of all, congratulations on your purchase, I've owned my 93 for around 4 years and even though I also own a XK8 and several other cars, I still enjoy the 93 almost the most. Anyways, be prepared for many hours of investigating issues with this car and do not expect any shops to be much help, as you've already found out, they do not want to even try to fix these year jaguars, unless you can find an old time shop. From my research, the 93 is an odd year, such as in mid year they went from inboard brakes to outboard brakes,(I had to drop the rear axle to do a complete brake job. There is no computer hook up for this year, unless you can find someone who has an old portable jaguar computer. Anyways, that being said, I still will say, do not get discouraged, it is worth fixing this car. They are great fun when running and beautiful cars.
O.K., hopefully this will get you started, first this car has to have a strong, fully charged battery or anything can happen. I would go buy an new battery before doing anything else.
I believe the FF44 code is the right side O2 sensor and if I am correct, this year my only have one O2 sensor. When buying a new sensor, make sure it of good German build, I found that the aftermarket brands do not work on these cars.
There is a computer in this car, but unfortunately, I have not found a company that can rebuild it. I actually bought a spare ECU cause when I sent mine into the company that rebuilt my XK8 computer, they sent it back stating not rebuildable, they could not get the needed parts, the car still runs, but idles a little rough. Even with the good spare, it still idles rough, so I figured the computer is not the problem.
By disconnecting the battery, you will reset the computer and erase the error codes and this might even get it started with a new battery. If the FF44 comes back, then try replacing the O2 sensor. This is after you get the car running again. A bad O2 sensor will not stop the car from running.
Make sure the fuel pump is working.
Make sure you have spark at the plugs.
Make sure the plugs are not wet or replace the plugs. If you were trying to start it, and the pump was working, the electric fuel pump was pumping gas into the cylinders, getting the plugs wet.
Anyone of the above issues could stop the car from running or at least make it hard to start, so take your time. You will soon have this car running like new, hopefully.
Maybe the first thing to do is invest in a repair manual and a DVD manual.
Search this site often, there are many very knowledgeable people on this site that will help you are at least get you in the right direction.
I've spent many hours trying to figure out issues on my 93 and more money then I'd like to admit, paying so called expert repair shops to try and fix the issues and have found that if I just take my time and do research, I seen to do a better job.
I've had a rough idle issue since I bought my XJS and have spent over $2500 at expert shops to repair the issue and each time it comes back running worse. So I have to adjust it to get it to at least run decent. I've just learned to live with the minor rough idle. Sometimes you just can't figure it out. Good luck and it's going to be a fun ride.

 

I considered buying this car but decided against it in the end
Not trying to be negative or discouraging but you have a car that has been totaled by an insurance company once for water damage and a second time for a fire, the shop in question did you and their self a favor by declining the job.

You car has been damaged by two of the worst things that can happen to a car with the electronics these cars have in them today, heat and water.

I base my comments on 35+ years in the collision repair and restoration business, good luck with it.

 

I would suggest that if you want to get the car running well, start by buying the proper Parts & Service manual on DVD from Jaguar's Heritage department @ Jaguar Heritage then buy a new battery. A duff battery can throw up all sorts of problems and error codes.

With those two in hand you can then start a proper logical assessment of fuel and sparks.

Good luck

Paul

 

Thanks for your reply! This is my second XJS, so I have some idea what to expect. I'm hoping the FF44 will simply be a replacement O2 sensor as suggested. We'll see what turns up once the power is restored and the engine starts again.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply! I appreciate the comments, and I understand that there are some risks involved with this car. However, I am attempting to mitigate these in a reasonable way.

I was irritated with my shop because they waited a month to tell me they didn't want to work on it. I'm not actually that surprised at the outcome; there are plenty of shops around here that won't look at any XJS, regardless of condition. I normally would never have taken this car to a shop in its current state; I really just needed the starting problem fixed and I was buried with work at the office. Now that it's home, I can finally clean up and investigate the fire damage personally. But first, I need to get it running again.

At the cost of derailing my own thread a bit, here is some further background context.

I now have two black '93 4.0 convertibles. They are substantially (but not totally) identical cars. The first car (Jag A) needs a ton of non-drivetrain work (suspension, body, interior) to bring it up to par, but has otherwise been a reasonably reliable daily driver for the last two years. It's stuck in that borderline grey area between a project car and a true road-ready driver, and I've been hesitant to spend the resources needed to restore it. I learned a lot from this car, including the fact that it's been hit in the back, had a crappy paint job and repair, and one or more half-assed interior restorations. I did spend too much on this one, which I've had to chalk up to experience. I really do like the car, though, and I'm still committed to the idea of having a XJS.

This new car in question (Jag B) was apparently left open in a big storm, where it picked up salvage title #1. This was over 10 years ago, and someone went to some effort to restore the interior. I can't speak to the quality of that work, because I haven't had the car long enough to know where all the mistakes and weaknesses are. But I can attest that the materials used in the interior are completely superior in condition to what's in Jag A's cabin. The car wasn't driven much after this (hence the low miles), but it was owned and driven by the same couple for a decade afterwards, so there is some reason to believe the water damage was properly fixed. When I drove the car just about everything in the cabin worked correctly, including the seat heater!

The latest owner had the car less than a month when he (and an acquaintance he loaned the car to) caused the trunk fire fiasco, leading to salvage title #2. The short of that story is gas was spilled onto the trunk carpets, which subsequently caught fire while the car was being driven. Again, I can't say how bad the fire damage really is yet, so this is the real question mark that may eventually sink this car, no question. There is significant damage to the paint and some obvious but so far minor damage to the trunk wiring. The trunk carpets and spare tire are total losses but the right-hand side of the trunk (security ecu, power antenna, etc.) appear to be okay. We'll see how bad the damage really is as I dig deeper into the car. I just cleaned out the trunk for the first time last night.

The good news is I got Jag B for a song, and if it really is just a parts-car, I have a willing recipient parked out front. However, if it turns out the damage isn't so bad after all, there will be a lot less labor required to fix up Jag B, which has very few of the nagging issues Jag A suffers.

 

Thanks Paul! I believe I have the DVD already. I just spend a large chunk of change on a new driveway, so a quality replacement battery is going to have a wait a couple of weeks. In the meantime, I've thought of a couple more tests I can try, including a battery swap with my other XJS for experimentation purposes.

My experience with the battery terminal clamps is they are not metric. Does anyone recall offhand what size the factory battery cable clamps are in a facelift car?

 

I own a 93 XJS coupe. I also had problems with the battery drain. Ended up getting a new battery. The old one had no CCA. The security alarm system in my XJS has been removed. The previous owner felt it was draining the battery. You might want to thoroughly check all the wiring in this system. As for the driver door being stuck, in my case it was the door actuator. Prior to putting in a new one, I could not lock the car. The glove box knob can be adjusted. Mine stuck as well. MY XJS has over 122k miles. However, the entire rear end differential, all the brakes, front suspension have been rebuilt and upgraded. The head has been removed - milled, shaved. New valve guides, stems, and valves. I have several suppliers that have helped me find parts. One is in NC, the other in England. I can try to assist you as you continue with the repairs. This is my 2nd XJS. The other was a 95 convertible.

 

just to comment on the battery clamps. you will need a 10m wrench. box end works best. I too need to replace the battery, only got 3 years out of mine.

 

Wow, that head work sounds great! Most of the regulars here are understandably inclined to talk up the V12s, so its nice to hear about machine work on an AJ6 head.

The locks on this one work fine, even on the driver's door. The handle, not so much; it feels noticeably loose, so I am expecting to find out that a linkage of some kind has failed in some fashion. When I get that far.

It's funny; my first convertible ended up with an oddball size on the nut, which is why I asked.

This car actually came with the original manual and a couple of supplements. The manual specifies 13mm for the battery terminal clamps, and sure enough, my 13mm wrench just did the job.

You just don't know what you're going to find on an XJS from one VIN to the next...

 

Battery is sorted, for now.

I did a bit of reading on the problem, and learned a few useful things. Basically, the newer, inexpensive "smart" chargers work great at auto detecting a lot of things about your battery, but only so long as you stay within certain parameters.

In my case, the firmware was trying to detect 12 volt vs 6 volt battery. If the battery voltage falls below 10v, it can't be absolutely sure you have a 12v battery connected, and it falls back to 6v charging, which is why it wouldn't charge my battery properly.

The car had been sitting for a couple of months and drained the battery down to an 8v charge. I popped it onto an old-school manual charger to get it back up to 12v, and then let the smart charger top it off overnight. Done.

BTW, I was hoping to use the OP of this thread to maintain a running status update, but the forum policy appears to be locking posts after a period of time, which is totally fair. So I've created a quicky blog to track the status of this project:

https://blackicecat.wordpress.com/ticket-tracker/

 

Ticket #2: Replace Battery

Okay, so the battery that came in this car is a fairly cheap marine unit sold at Walmart. It's been run down hard at least once for sure, and this is not what I'd pick for an XJS battery, so it goes on the replace-when-funds-are-available list; important, but not urgent.

Status: pending.

Ticket #3: Reset Security ECU

The security system starts chirping right when power is restored and is not responding to the remote, which may have a dead battery of its own. Important, but not urgent. I have simply unplugged the ECU at the block connector for now.

Status: pending.

Ticket #4: Engine Not Running

Now we come to the meat of the problem. I am finally back at the state the car was in when it stranded me in rural Arkansas. Starter turns the engine fine, but does not fire in any meaningful or obvious way. Full tank of gas. Making no other assumptions, I've stopped here for the moment.

My thought is to first test for spark at the plugs/plug wires. I haven't done serious diagnostic work at home like this in years, and I'll have to buy or borrow instruments and tools as needed.

Status: open.

 

Just a thought...but is you car a 931/2 MY ? It may have a chipped key and that might stop the engine starting. I'm not sure from what VIN they had that.

 

Afaik the xjs never got chips on the keys. My 95 does not

 

FYI, the VIN serial is 186960, inboard rear brakes, etc. The whole car is tibbe keyed, except for the gas cap, just like my first car. I believe I have the original keys (some of them, anyway). I have the flashlight key (which I hadn't seen before) and I even have what looks like the metal tags with the key code, as described in the supplemental manual. So I think that rules out any concerns regarding digital ignition security.

Okay, so I picked up an inline spark tester and popped that on number 1 this morning. Nada. Zilch. Zed. Interesting.

This is the first time I've used this style of tester, however, and my confidence level with getting it seated on the plug was weak, so I made several attempts to run this test. It's also the first time I've worked with the plugs on a hemi engine, and it's a little tricky getting a good seat with that long plug boot. The last attempt, though, I felt pretty good about the snap I got using needle-nose pliers on test lead. Still nothing.

I want to back this test result up with another tool before I go to next steps. I can probably get an induction timing light on the car tomorrow, which is an instrument I have much more experience with and confidence in.

Speaking of which, is there a positive post in the engine bay? I've never had to give that any thought, since I've never needed a jump (front or back). If not, is that a mod anyone has made or seen?

 

kurtomatic,

A couple of comments:

Late XJS use Tibbe keys but none of the keys were ever chipped so that's not your starting problem.

Irrespective of the strength of the keyfob battery, it can lose its synchronisation with the car, especially if the battery goes completely flat or the securtity ecu is connected. You may need to reprogram the fobs to the car. That is something you can do without going to a Jaguar dealer. Post back here if you don't know how to do it and I'll detail for you.

Thinking o your security system, you have an immobiliser linked to it which cuts the ignition circuit, so that could still be your starting problem. I'd sort the alarm and keyfobs first and make sure that is all functioning.

Yes, there are positive terminal on the bulkhead on each side. Should be covered with a rubber shroud, easy to find.

Cheers

Paul

 

Does the immobilizer affect the starter? The starter turns over fine.

When I reconnected the battery, I attempted to register the remote by pressing the button five times with the chirping. But that was a pretty half-assed attempt.

There is no switch inside the console. If there is a valet switch, I haven't identified it yet. I've seen lots of various narratives regarding the immobilizer, so I'm very open suggestions.

****EDIT: I've since had a look at the documentation. The car came with a Jaguar Security System instruction card (609-6017 Rev. A) labelled "19K SYSTEMS". The card indicates the effects of an armed system include that:

"..the engine starter is disabled."

In the case of battery failure, the card urges the owner to bring the car back to the dealer, but says "..you can press remote 5 times and system will work normally." But only for that one fob, of course.

Does anyone know of an immobilizer feature that actually affects the ignition, rather than the starter or the fuel pump (as in the case with the inertial cut-off)?

Thanks for all the help, folks!

 

It's Tired Dogeared '93 Convertible and Crispy Mishap '93 Convertible! Together, we fight crime and.., uh... take up a lot of driveway?

 

New test results and other input data:

Okay, I lined up both cars to perform tests in parallel to validate the testing. Checked for spark at wires with an inductive timing light. Previous no-spark result was in fact a false negative, as I feared; so glad I took the time to do it this way.

The ignition system is delivering spark, even when it's just the starter turning it over. I say it that way, because the first time I attempted the test on the problem car, the damn thing fired right up! This is with no changes made at the human level.

However, I was also able to recreate the no-start condition by turning the engine off and retrying it, and it displayed the same behavior as when it stranded me back in Feb. More on that in a sec.

In any case, I was able to find spark both during the starting failure state, and on all 6 cylinders when running. I was also able to restart the car more than once, so something about the current defect state is less severe than it has been in the past for some reason. The problem is clearly intermittent in some degree; as much as it warms my heart to have this car running at all, intermittent sucks.

Now I've previously avoided talking much about symptoms beyond simple failure to start, because I wanted to approach this as a clean sheet exercise. I think I've at least ruled out the ignition path this way, for now. However, with an intermittent fuel problem, I think reviewing the symptom history and various other observations is now called for. These may be symptoms to more than one distinct problem, so I don't want to treat this as a jigsaw puzzle where one solution must account for all behaviors. Some of this will be noise.

I'm going to bullet-spam a wall of observations. If anyone looking over this list has any suggestions about what to try next the floor is open.

Then

• Car had a FF 44 code, but started reliably (at first).
• After idling for a time, the idle would randomly go nuts; cutting out and then surging erratically. It could do this indefinitely, or settle down again and idle normally if in the mood.
• Throttle response and acceleration was very, extremely, choppy. The lower the engine speed, the worse the cutting-out. Trying to increase throttle from low speeds (.6 - 1.5k rpm) was tricky and could stall the engine.
• At moderate engine speed, the car has fairly consistent power but would still suffer brief cut-outs and stutters every few seconds.
• At higher RPMs (2.2k+ rpm) the engine ran good, and although throttle response was not 100%, there was very little stuttering and the car really drove well near 3k rpm.
• Before the engine died, it had been successfully running in cold conditions (below freezing) over the course of 2 days, and damp conditions (ice everywhere) for several hours.
• The engine stall resembled the behavior my other XJS exhibits when run out of gas (dead slosh module, been there done that). It sputtered a bit before stalling at fairly low speed (a bit under 20 mph).
• After failing to restart for about an hour, I was able to restart the engine once, and got another mile or so before stalling again the same way. I was never able to start it again before today.
• During several hours of attempted restarts (with multiple battery recharges), it would often chuff a bit as I let off the starter, just to tease me. There were a couple of rare times a cylinder or two seemed to fire to no result.

Now

• The car sat ignored for 2 months at a shop. During that time there was some nice weather, but there was mostly a lot of rain and excessive cold weather (a lot more ice than normal, etc.).
• In the two weeks since I got the car home, there has been a ton of rain, with some flash flooding (but we're still not quite out of our local drought; close though). Today marks the first 3 days of consecutive warm, dry, sunny weather so far this spring. The last time we had weather like this was January, before I bought the car.
• The battery was run down to 8 volts, but has since been recharged and appears to be working normally again.
• A week ago the engine would not start for anything.
• When it was in a non-starting state today, I got the same last-gasp chuffing as before. I once tried peddling gas manually while running the starter, and I got a bunch of miss-fire until I gave it up.
• After starting and running the car a bit today, the engine light and FF 44 code are back.
• The sputtering at low speeds is still in play, worse than ever, possibly.
• The first time the engine started, it fired right up on the second revolution, like nothing had ever happened. Grrrrr!
• It has since also fired normally after 3 or 4 revs, and several times has gotten itself running after a good dozen or so with a partial firing developing into a full fire, or sometime a solid late start.
• It seems most likely to not start right after it's been running and I shut it off.
• The more I run the engine today, the harder it is to get it not to start. At this point (right now) it starts every time, even if I have to keep on the starter for several seconds. If I wait long enough, it'll catch and start.
• Random bullshit: the air pump belt is missing. Hilarity ensues.

I'm blabbering on about the weather because that is literally the only thing that has changed since last weekend. While I presumed that the fault code and rough running were related, I was also betting that the start-failure mode was unrelated to the fault code. I am very much not so confident about that now.

With the engine starting now, even at less than 100%, I think the fault code is my next priority. I know there will be suggestions to leap straight for the oxy sensor (sensors?), but my googling of the precise trigger for FF 44 shows that there can be other causes of that circuit failure.

Suggestions are appreciated!

 

Now that you've got it started, if you trust additives, I'd add a can of seafoam to the gas. Maybe it was a possibility that the injectors were clogged up and with new gas and getting it started, the seafoam might clean up the injectors. I know many people do not use or believe in additives, but I've been using this product for years in all makes and models of cars and it seems to help. Just a suggestion. Add it, start it and let it run.