I am a bit shocked at the rate for a diagnosis I recently received at an independent shop. I was going to reply with this thread but thought I would create a new post so it gets more attention:

$160 seems a bit steep considering they were unable to give any input on the transmission issue I am having which is quite severe (they could not recreate it so its understandalbe why).

I was only charged an hour so I definitely thankful for that. Honestly, I was expecting $80 or $120 max for driving the car around the block and putting it on lift, if not for free.

Its great for them that they can get these rates. All the cars in there were old Rolls, a 1952 Jaguar, etc. Its not a shop for a DIY mechanic like me.

I would have never discovered the shims missing, so they definitely helped. However, I know these cars well enough and feel that I can fix most things. Especially with the help of this forum. To think of someone paying me $160 an hour to do so, is beyond my comprehension. It just shows how valuable the information is here.

Much thanks to the guys with all the knowledge on here who give it away for nothing! I feel like I should send a bottle of wine out during the holidays, to a select few of you.

 

Agree 101% without this forum and others like it there is no way I could keep the fleet on the road. Under no circumstances could I afford shop rates every time I have a hic-up. I have had lots of hic-ups over the last 11 years. Thanks to all who have helped on this forum and others. Hope I can be of service to some in the future.

 

I agree. The help here is second to none.
I would also like to thank everyone for their help

 

Thank you also from down here, many a "bug" sorted due to knowledge from others, awesome.

We also have that same $$ for the dealer, or Indy (converted teh $ to be sure).

I realised back in 1968 that I was never going to keep my MK7 on the road without getting down and dirty, and remembering what I was doing for next time, and there was plenty of "next time" with that MK7, trust me.

Then it grew to now, and I have to write everything down, then remember where I wrote it, then came computers, and this Forum, FUN being had, oh well, time for a JD.

 

I agree with everything said in this post ,however every time I read these type posts I have to wonder how much does the people that post in these type threads services' cost the public. Lots of doctors,attorneys,engineers own these cars and complain about what dealerships and independent shops charge but at least car hobbies are usually a volunteer thing whereas most professional's services are necessary. Just saying

 

Bought my first Jag in about 1997. I'm pretty good with cars but I would've been lost without the help and advice from others...both face-to-face at Jag shows and such, and , mostly, on internet forums. I've learned SO much from others.

And I'm 100% sure that we'd have fewer cool old Jags on the road today were it not for these discussion groups and the generously exchanged information and advice.

One thing I've particularly appreciated is that no matter who you are, or where you live, or what your station in life....you'll always find many who will jump at the chance to help. That's pretty cool.

My hat's off to all

Cheers
DD

 

I surely agree with everything said here. I try to express my deep gratitude by posting my experience, knowledge and discoveries whenevr the opportunity arises. My "Tip of the Hat" to all.

 

I am not entirely sure what you are saying here. "these type threads services cost the public"

Are you saying these threads take away from mechanics profit? If thats the case, this sort of thing is happening across the board. Knowledge, IMO should never be hidden from anyone who seeks it.

I think we all agree jaguar mechanics should get $160 an hour and anyone on this board who has gained knowledge through the years should also get those wages. The problem is that we cant afford it, so we do things ourselves. If someone want s to do something themselves they should have the resources to do it. If someone wants to pay someone to do something they should be fairly billed for it. While I think I was charged a lot for what I received, I respect the knowledge the guys have over there and I think they deserve to be compensated. I just wish they would have seen me as more of a student, or someone eager to learn, a a part of a jaguar community, and treated me as such. Rather than just giving me the same bill they give everyone else, when they shared knowledge I already had... Not to include my reason for going there was never addressed... another story.

 

I agree with your first point, a bit ambiguous from the poster!


As to your second, the mechanic is NOT getting anything like all of the $160. That is the rate that the company has to charge to pay for all the things it needs to run the business: Property rent, property taxes, tool costs, utilities, state and federal taxes, insurances, non-mechanic payroll costs, payroll taxes and finally the actual grease monkey's payroll cost. What the mechanic actually gets is nothing like $160 every hour (this side of the pond anyway).
Greg

 

I would also like to say how much I appreciate the respectful, considered and spot-on answers I've gotten to my stupid questions. As a non mechanic, I sometimes find myself asking questions that are basic to the experienced out there but are foreign to me. Because of your positive answers, I'm able to do the work myself, pick up a skill and gain a better understanding of my car.

Thanks.

 

I was going to respond to this post but Greg beat me to it with his well stated response.

I will however share this with you maybe it will get my message across.

Back in the early 90's a ups driver delivering a package to my shop was whining and complaining because a local dealership charged him $1500 to repair his wifes car,had to put a door skin on it and paint. After my breaking down those charges for him and defending the other shops prices for the repair I asked him how much he made in his job. He got defensive at that question. after much persuasion from me he finally admitted what I already knew which was that the average pay for his job was 22-23 dollars an hour, we didn't even discuss benefits

I did however ask him what he had invested in earning his pay to which we finally agree was a drivers license with clean driving record and an alarm clock to insure he got to work on time.I then clued him to the fact the dealership had millions invested and their labor rate in the body shop was at the time around 30-32 an hour, the tech that worked on his car who probably had a minimum of 8-10,000 tied up in tools maybe got around 40% of that labor rate for the hours figured and if it took more then the hours figured he may or may not have gotten payed for those hours and if the job came back thru no fault of his had to fix it the second time for nothing.

I'll ask you the same thing I asked the UPS driver don't you think the scales are a little out of balance as far as pay equity goes.

Like I stated in my first post how much do the services you people that are complaining about the costs of maintaining a car cost me or anyone else when we purchase those services. Don't even get me started on the incompetence in the "what are normally perceived as professional people". If everyone would pay for a product or service based on how they expect to get payed we wouldn't have people in this country or any other for that matter working for poverty wages and struggling to exist.

I'll get off my soapbox now

Wayne

 

I agree, I could not have done half of what I have done on my '96 XJS without the forum. Hoodun should I forward my address to you RE the bottle of wine?
Snowball

 

I couldn't agree more

I haven't been on this forum long either, amazing how so many are keen to help and offer advice.

I wouldn't have a clue as to what to do / check or how to test anything...

Really grateful to everyone.

 

Without this site and the jag-lovers site before it, I'd be like my neighbor who traded his XK8 for a Toyota because of poor dealer service.

Thanks everyone!

 

I'd love to learn exactly how much JD Grant Francis goes through in a month!

 

this is a small shop. the owner of the shop looked at the car. I'm guessing he pays his guys half of the rate. all said and done, I do not feel like they deserved $160 not having addressed the issue. I did get half of my issues addressed, and they told me the shims are missing. someone on this board would have given me this info for free. which is my reason for posting. if glancing at a car and saying the shims are missing is worth $160, add up the knowledge people give away on this board. it will get close to a half a million +.

if I am going to complain it will be this: I didnt sign for anything. No work was done. A wrench never touched my car. I only asked that they look and the car and diagnose what is wrong with it. A lot of shops do this for free. Money should have been discussed up front. I would have said put a half an hour into it if I had known what the cost was. Part of me though it maybe was a free diagnosis since rates were never discussed. I was considering paying them for the alignment. I was also expecting any charges to be discussed ahead of time. If I was in their shoes, I would have been like sure we will look at it. We have a $160 minimum rate, rather than making it seem like it could be a free diagnosis. I think this is what upsets me most. Not the rates they are charging. If they are getting those rates thats great for them and great for me if one day I get side work. I sometimes charge $150 an hr for my IT consulting. I always let people know what my rates are before I open my mouth. I also have a rate that is a third of that for people who are not billionaires.

Anyway, my initial purpose was not to rant. I was just giving thanks to this board after seeing what knowledge of the mechanics of this car is being valued at. I now know, and I found out the hard way.

 

HA.

Not so much these days. Found Coffee gives less headaches.

Maybe a 750ml, depending on the activity at hand.

A lot less V12's now, so less need for more necta.

Still fun but.

 

I know what you are saying.

A long time ago I took my XJ-S to the dealer for a driveline vibration that had me stumped.

The statement was "that car is too far out of warranty, no-one here knows anything about them".

They still put it on the hoist and charged me $100 for that activity. I looked undernearth and saw what I wanted, and went home and re-aligned the trans mount centre pin.

Costs is costs, and they are in business to make a dollar, as we would be if the boot was on the other foot.

Like you, I learned a lesson, found the fault with my car, and paid for that privilege, and moved on in a heartbeat.

 

Back in the 70's the mechanic usually got 50% labor rate (that was standard in a bunch of places). If the rate was $30/Hr then we were paid $15/Hr and the shop sold parts at a mark-up.

Then sometime in the 80's, things changed. The shop rate went to $35/Hr and we got $15/Hr. We complained so we got $15.50/Hr.

Then the shop rate went to $40/Hr and we got $16/Hr.

The shop rates continued to rise incrementally but the pay rate to the mechanics stayed relatively constant. Mostly in the $20 to $30 per hour range for the past few decades.

Some mechanics can run 50+ hours per week and make a good wage but.................

New car dealer mechanics are paid Warranty Repair Times and the factory is NOT generous. A job that takes 3 hours might pay 1.2 hours Warranty time. 'Customer Pay' jobs need to be higher to try to offset the meager Warranty rate.

Just a real world reality, Just so you know!!!!!!

bob gauff

 

I remember it all very well...as I was neck deep in it!

The benchmark became 70%-75% 'retention' of labor dollars.

Many dealers eventually reached this point by a cocktail of varying labor rates, varying technician pay according to skill level and type of work, various matrixes for both tech pay and amount charged to the customer, and so forth. I dreamed up a lot of those 'cocktails' myself. Success of the cocktail depends on the right 'mix' of work and the right mix of technicians at the different skill levels and pay levels.

One element of making it all work was abandoning the philosophy/expectation of techs getting xxx-percentage of the labor rate. It was replaced with the idea of the dealership 'buying' technician labor at xyz-amount per flat rate hour and then reselling the labor to the customer for however much the dealer needed or wanted to achieve an aggregate 75% retention of labor dollars collected.

I could write a book.....

Glad to be out of the game. I could never go back !

Cheers
DD