LS3 Conversion Diary
#41
10-18-2016, 05:54 AM
Member
I just wanted to pass along some notes on the LS-Jag oil pan discussion here. When we first did the R&D work for the Jag-LS conversion we tried nearly every pan that was out there for fit. Remember, this was back in 2008 and there were no aftermarket pans that weren't fabricated steel (welded, and required a remote oil filter mount), etc.,. This is before even the GM muscle car pan kit was released (which is actually the Hummer Alpha pan and hangs way too low for us anyway). Back then we settled on a particular GM-based pan and made the modest mods necessary to it to work in the Jag chassis. The main objective of going this way was to maximize ground clearance- this pan, used with our LS mounts, does not hang any lower than the front crossmember or the transmission bellhousing. Now, 8 years later, some other options to consider are available. We have not tried the Holley pan but I have one customer who was going to give it a go- we have not heard back from him on that. The Holley pan is actually almost 1" llower than the pan we use so in our applications, the sump would be the lowest point under the car, something a Jag owner would have to decide is ok or not. The Mast pan is similar to the Holley pan but also lower in back than our preferred unit (by about 3/4") so it would also be the lowest point on the car. From a profile standpoint it looks (although it is not confirmed) like either of these will fit our chassis with the ground clearance thing my only concern.
For those doing our conversion now I will respectfully ask that we keep the details of exactly which GM pan our kit recommends for the Jag application, and the required mods, confidential. Those details are for customers only-please don't share that info with anyone.
I am really happy with the back/forth discussion going on here- it's informative and open- just enthusiasts sharing experiences, tips, etc.,. Good for the process.
Thanks
Andrew
Jaguar Specialties
For those doing our conversion now I will respectfully ask that we keep the details of exactly which GM pan our kit recommends for the Jag application, and the required mods, confidential. Those details are for customers only-please don't share that info with anyone.
I am really happy with the back/forth discussion going on here- it's informative and open- just enthusiasts sharing experiences, tips, etc.,. Good for the process.
Thanks
Andrew
Jaguar Specialties
(With my sincere apologies to rsmithline for the hijack)Hi Andrew!
Great to see you're following this build thread! Now that's customer support! What's more, it shows that you care about your products and customers.
Are you taking notes with regard to the use of the 6 speed auto trans (6L80) in this swap?
It'd be great if you expanded your conversion kit transmission options to include the 6L80.
I have 2 vehicles with the 6 speed auto (Pontiac G8 GT and Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD) and I really like those transmissions.
I think the 6L80 would enhance the LS swap, not to mention, even as a swap behind the V12.
And now, back to the original thread.
Last edited by Greencar89; 10-18-2016 at 05:56 AM. Reason: sp
The following users liked this post:
ronbros (10-18-2016)
#42
10-18-2016, 08:28 AM
Sponsor
Taking Notes.....
Indeed, I am watching closely. Quite honestly, Robert here is more the exception than the rule as far as XJS LS conversions. Most of my customers for these cars, and the XK8/XJ8 as well for that matter, are using the earlier LS engine packages (98-02 Camaro/Firebird, 5.3 truck LS, etc.,.) and not so much the later model pieces. However, as time goes on and prices on the late packages come down, we'll see more interest in them into Jags.
BTW, my next XK8 project, whenever it gets started, will be an LS3/6L80E install. I've already started gathering pieces- still looking for a good car to do it on. On this one, I may look for a 2001 or 2002 model as they have some nice upgrades over the earlier cars.
As for as a 6L80E conversion behind a V12, there's very little interest there, or for any trans conversion behind the V12 for that matter. I get maybe 2 or 3 calls a year on projects like that. Not an indicator of a large market, or at least one to justify the expense to develop a kit. I doubt the other suppliers of trans conversions for these cars (who sell the automatic or manual versions) are seeing much activity there either.
Thanks
Andrew
Jaguar Specialties
BTW, my next XK8 project, whenever it gets started, will be an LS3/6L80E install. I've already started gathering pieces- still looking for a good car to do it on. On this one, I may look for a 2001 or 2002 model as they have some nice upgrades over the earlier cars.
As for as a 6L80E conversion behind a V12, there's very little interest there, or for any trans conversion behind the V12 for that matter. I get maybe 2 or 3 calls a year on projects like that. Not an indicator of a large market, or at least one to justify the expense to develop a kit. I doubt the other suppliers of trans conversions for these cars (who sell the automatic or manual versions) are seeing much activity there either.
Thanks
Andrew
Jaguar Specialties
#43
10-18-2016, 10:46 AM
(With my sincere apologies to rsmithline for the hijack)Hi Andrew!
Great to see you're following this build thread! Now that's customer support! What's more, it shows that you care about your products and customers.
Are you taking notes with regard to the use of the 6 speed auto trans (6L80) in this swap?
It'd be great if you expanded your conversion kit transmission options to include the 6L80.
I have 2 vehicles with the 6 speed auto (Pontiac G8 GT and Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD) and I really like those transmissions.
I think the 6L80 would enhance the LS swap, not to mention, even as a swap behind the V12.
And now, back to the original thread.
I will confirm this with my mechanic though.
The following users liked this post:
Greencar89 (10-18-2016)
#44
10-18-2016, 11:21 AM
I am sure Andrew can give you more details when the build is complete and tested, but I can tell you so far that the 6L80 went right in with no hammer work to the trans tunnel, and mounted cleanly using Andrew's fabricated trans support.
I will confirm this with my mechanic though.
I will confirm this with my mechanic though.
Padre
#45
10-18-2016, 11:31 AM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Austin tx and Daytona FL.
Posts: 7,362
Received 1,231 Likes
on
939 Posts
my idea,like 7 yrs ago, would be an AUDI V12 twin turbo DIESEL,(at that time only had 4L80E trans,but today 6L80 would be definate choice).
Audi V12 diesel factory stock, 500HP, 750 torque, just reprogram ECU, 700HP ,1000 ft. lb.
torque, that would get the performance part done!
30+ MPG, ,, and what a Great conversation piece it would be, and 6L80 trans. YUP i like it!
reliability of engine would be fantastic.
problem is only engine i can find is $20,000. not counting installation, and the myriad of parts and stuff!
for my EGO, i would not be copying anyone!
Audi V12 diesel factory stock, 500HP, 750 torque, just reprogram ECU, 700HP ,1000 ft. lb.
torque, that would get the performance part done!
30+ MPG, ,, and what a Great conversation piece it would be, and 6L80 trans. YUP i like it!
reliability of engine would be fantastic.
problem is only engine i can find is $20,000. not counting installation, and the myriad of parts and stuff!
for my EGO, i would not be copying anyone!
#46
10-18-2016, 11:40 AM
Member
I am sure Andrew can give you more details when the build is complete and tested, but I can tell you so far that the 6L80 went right in with no hammer work to the trans tunnel, and mounted cleanly using Andrew's fabricated trans support.
I will confirm this with my mechanic though.
I will confirm this with my mechanic though.
Good news indeed.
Thanks for the detail!
#47
10-19-2016, 10:39 AM
Well, the trans going in easily was good news, but there are some other issues that have cropped up.
The oil pan that was modified for this install needs to be modified again; it is not clearing the subframe. Since I am the first to do an LS3, the instructions I have from Andrew are for an LS1. The LS3 version is going to require some further modification. He warned me there would be issues like this cropping up. Time to call the welder again.
Yup, there is nothing like being the first.
Unfortunately that is not where the surprises end today. THe manifolds don't fit either. They will need to be shortened. The welder is going to be busy today.
And to top it off, since the Camaro had electric steering, I need to order a power steering pump and a bracket.
I will update my costs on this stuff as soon as I know for sure.
The oil pan that was modified for this install needs to be modified again; it is not clearing the subframe. Since I am the first to do an LS3, the instructions I have from Andrew are for an LS1. The LS3 version is going to require some further modification. He warned me there would be issues like this cropping up. Time to call the welder again.
Yup, there is nothing like being the first.
Unfortunately that is not where the surprises end today. THe manifolds don't fit either. They will need to be shortened. The welder is going to be busy today.
And to top it off, since the Camaro had electric steering, I need to order a power steering pump and a bracket.
I will update my costs on this stuff as soon as I know for sure.
#48
10-19-2016, 11:16 AM
Veteran Member
Can't you use the original GM power steering pump? Make some bracket for it and power it with that... Then get some piping made to work properly and you should be good You can probably ditch the steering oil cooler... Or you can upgrade to "modern" eletrical steering (which I think is the biggest BS ever... But that is my opinion) 
You can probably ditch the steering oil cooler... Or you can upgrade to "modern" eletrical steering (which I think is the biggest BS ever... But that is my opinion)
Last edited by Daim; 10-19-2016 at 11:19 AM.
The following users liked this post:
rsmithline (10-19-2016)
#49
10-19-2016, 11:49 AM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Walnut Creek, California
Posts: 6,796
Received 2,399 Likes
on
1,880 Posts
Amazing!!!
Although this stuff is beyond my present abilities, it remains of intense interest to me.
1. A skilled welder with TIG can handle most modifications to alloy pans quite well.
2. If the manifolds are cast iron, it is a bit different, but doable.
3. I've not looked into electric steering. Interest only, at this stage. Pure electric, a stepper to move the wheels? Or simpler, an electric motor to
drive the hydraulic pump?
4. Fly by wire throttle ? Intriguing.
And, I thought the installation and adaptation of the LT1 in my car was complex!!! Well, to me it was!!
Much more so than installing the flat head Ford V8 in my much modified
Model A frame. There, the big step was adding brake and clutch pedals that worked!!!
Aside from that, hydraulic brakes in lieu of mechanicals was easy!!
Missed out on a neat project. A derelict vintage VW based "dune buggy" resides in my drive. I missed a "cheap" small diesel engine on CL!
would have been fun to create a diesel bug!!
Carl
Although this stuff is beyond my present abilities, it remains of intense interest to me.
1. A skilled welder with TIG can handle most modifications to alloy pans quite well.
2. If the manifolds are cast iron, it is a bit different, but doable.
3. I've not looked into electric steering. Interest only, at this stage. Pure electric, a stepper to move the wheels? Or simpler, an electric motor to
drive the hydraulic pump?
4. Fly by wire throttle ? Intriguing.
And, I thought the installation and adaptation of the LT1 in my car was complex!!! Well, to me it was!!
Much more so than installing the flat head Ford V8 in my much modified
Model A frame. There, the big step was adding brake and clutch pedals that worked!!!
Aside from that, hydraulic brakes in lieu of mechanicals was easy!!
Missed out on a neat project. A derelict vintage VW based "dune buggy" resides in my drive. I missed a "cheap" small diesel engine on CL!
would have been fun to create a diesel bug!!
Carl
The following users liked this post:
ronbros (11-06-2016)
#50
10-20-2016, 07:32 AM
Member
Well, the trans going in easily was good news, but there are some other issues that have cropped up.
The oil pan that was modified for this install needs to be modified again; it is not clearing the subframe. Since I am the first to do an LS3, the instructions I have from Andrew are for an LS1. The LS3 version is going to require some further modification. He warned me there would be issues like this cropping up. Time to call the welder again.
Yup, there is nothing like being the first.
Unfortunately that is not where the surprises end today. THe manifolds don't fit either. They will need to be shortened. The welder is going to be busy today.
And to top it off, since the Camaro had electric steering, I need to order a power steering pump and a bracket.
I will update my costs on this stuff as soon as I know for sure.
The oil pan that was modified for this install needs to be modified again; it is not clearing the subframe. Since I am the first to do an LS3, the instructions I have from Andrew are for an LS1. The LS3 version is going to require some further modification. He warned me there would be issues like this cropping up. Time to call the welder again.
Yup, there is nothing like being the first.
Unfortunately that is not where the surprises end today. THe manifolds don't fit either. They will need to be shortened. The welder is going to be busy today.
And to top it off, since the Camaro had electric steering, I need to order a power steering pump and a bracket.
I will update my costs on this stuff as soon as I know for sure.
Having done engine swaps in the past, I feel your pain.
When it comes to LS3 swaps, you aren't plowing new ground with regard to the on engine stuff when adapting the LS3 to a different chassis - but you may be with the XJS.
For the power steering pump issue, I dont think it'll be as easy as sticking a pump on a fabbing up a few brackets. In my experience, mixing and matching and adapting accessory drives is a touchy process in terms of durability/reliability. I like to use proven validated parts where I can.
That much less to worry about when I'm sweating out "validation runs' on a freshly completed project.
As such there are aftermarket parts to help.
Holley makes a LS accessory drive swap kit that works on the LS3 and includes the power steering pump. Unfortunately its the whole drive assembly and it aint cheap.
The 'gotchas' are one has to slightly grind the water pump housing for proper clearance, however they do sell pumps with the proper clearance.
The other is you have to buy the power steering pump reservoir separately.
Of course, our friends at Pace sell it, but can be bought from the other usual suspects such as Summit Racing or Jegs.
I did confirm with Pace tech line that the kits listed below work on LS3.
GM Performance parts sells a kit specifically for the LS3 as well may even he the same one Holley sells.
The only negative I could say about it (apart from price) is it mounts the A/C compressor up high, which isn't as clean as the stock LS location down low.
By the way, please post pics if you can.
For reference:
Conversion kit - Has an install video imbedded:
HLY20-137 - Holley Performance LS Accessory Drive Kit, Includes SD508 A/C Compressor, Alternator, P/S Pump, Tensioner, Belt, & Pulleys
Required Power Steering Pump Reservoir. Looks like a GM part with "Holley" on the cap
Power Steering Reservoir Kit Holley Performance 198-200 - Pace Performance Parts
Last edited by Greencar89; 10-20-2016 at 07:33 AM. Reason: sp
The following 2 users liked this post by Greencar89:
Padre (10-20-2016),
rsmithline (10-20-2016)
#51
10-20-2016, 09:12 AM
Well, it looks like my mechanic was jumping the gun on the new modifications before talking to Andrew.
He only needed about another 1/4 inch clearance for the oil pan. After talking to Andrew, which my mechanic seems hesitant to do, it turns out that the reason it was a problem was because the engine was mounted too far forward. He needed to move the engine back a bit, which will require some modification to the trans mount, which is a much easier job than cutting up the oil pan again.
Also, after moving the engine back a bit only one of the manifolds will need to be modified.
So the trans installation will be a bit more work, and not as effort free as I mentioned in an earlier post, but it saves you much more work on clearance issues for the rest of the engine.
Greencar, I know this thread has been picture light the last few posts and I will try and post a few more. It is hard without showing Andrew's proprietary parts though.
He only needed about another 1/4 inch clearance for the oil pan. After talking to Andrew, which my mechanic seems hesitant to do, it turns out that the reason it was a problem was because the engine was mounted too far forward. He needed to move the engine back a bit, which will require some modification to the trans mount, which is a much easier job than cutting up the oil pan again.
Also, after moving the engine back a bit only one of the manifolds will need to be modified.
So the trans installation will be a bit more work, and not as effort free as I mentioned in an earlier post, but it saves you much more work on clearance issues for the rest of the engine.
Greencar, I know this thread has been picture light the last few posts and I will try and post a few more. It is hard without showing Andrew's proprietary parts though.
The following users liked this post:
Padre (10-21-2016)
#52
10-20-2016, 11:57 AM
#53
10-20-2016, 01:07 PM
The following 3 users liked this post by rsmithline:
#54
10-20-2016, 01:35 PM
Veteran Member
#55
10-20-2016, 05:14 PM
Sponsor
The moral?? Call the supplier first......
And that's really it on conversions. Customers pay good money for the knowledge a supplier has and how to use their parts properly, particularly to save time and money. If there are questions during the process, and there always are (which is absolutely fine), that's where we sort out little glitches in the process. This most recent "issue" is one. I have told Robert to "HIGHLY ENCOURAGE" his installer to call me "ANY TIME" he is unsure about something so I can be of assistance. My role is not just to sell parts but to be sure the customer is successful. Email, phone, and text, are all there to facilitate that. And to help customers doing an install, I answer the phone and reply to Emails/texts on Saturday and Sunday as well...
Quite honestly, I worry more when I don't hear from customers than when I do. We do the best we can to write a manual that covers all of the bases, but the reality is there will always be questions. That's absolutely fine, and is absolutely what I am here for....
Thanks,
Andrew
Jaguar Specialties
Quite honestly, I worry more when I don't hear from customers than when I do. We do the best we can to write a manual that covers all of the bases, but the reality is there will always be questions. That's absolutely fine, and is absolutely what I am here for....
Thanks,
Andrew
Jaguar Specialties
The following 4 users liked this post by JaguarSpecialties:
#56
10-20-2016, 07:15 PM
Member
Well, it looks like my mechanic was jumping the gun on the new modifications before talking to Andrew.
He only needed about another 1/4 inch clearance for the oil pan. After talking to Andrew, which my mechanic seems hesitant to do, it turns out that the reason it was a problem was because the engine was mounted too far forward. He needed to move the engine back a bit, which will require some modification to the trans mount, which is a much easier job than cutting up the oil pan again.
Also, after moving the engine back a bit only one of the manifolds will need to be modified.
So the trans installation will be a bit more work, and not as effort free as I mentioned in an earlier post, but it saves you much more work on clearance issues for the rest of the engine.
Greencar, I know this thread has been picture light the last few posts and I will try and post a few more. It is hard without showing Andrew's proprietary parts though.
He only needed about another 1/4 inch clearance for the oil pan. After talking to Andrew, which my mechanic seems hesitant to do, it turns out that the reason it was a problem was because the engine was mounted too far forward. He needed to move the engine back a bit, which will require some modification to the trans mount, which is a much easier job than cutting up the oil pan again.
Also, after moving the engine back a bit only one of the manifolds will need to be modified.
So the trans installation will be a bit more work, and not as effort free as I mentioned in an earlier post, but it saves you much more work on clearance issues for the rest of the engine.
Greencar, I know this thread has been picture light the last few posts and I will try and post a few more. It is hard without showing Andrew's proprietary parts though.
With regard to pictures, I understand where Andrew is coming from. Thanks for posting what you have so far.
#57
10-29-2016, 01:42 PM
I know there has not been an update in a while. There is just nothing sexy going on.
Pretty much the last week was spent sussing out how to make the electronic throttle body work with the Jag pedal. There was a bit of trial and error in routing it away from any extreme heat sources. It will still need to be heat shielded though.
Pretty much the last week was spent sussing out how to make the electronic throttle body work with the Jag pedal. There was a bit of trial and error in routing it away from any extreme heat sources. It will still need to be heat shielded though.
#58
10-29-2016, 02:50 PM
Veteran Member
Can you not ditch the Jag pedal and use a GM pedal? Maybe adapt the pedal backing or so? Or another way: move the GM pedalsensor into the engine bay somewhere and adapt the fly by wire pedal to be powered with the cable pull... Should be possible. You could then determine how much travel you want inside the car or how much force by moving the cable up or down the other pedal... If you know what I mean...
Last edited by Daim; 10-30-2016 at 03:06 AM.
#59
10-29-2016, 03:30 PM
Can you not ditch the Jag pedal and use a GM pedal? Maybe adapt the pedal backing or so? Or anlther way: move the GM pedalsensor into the engine bay somewhere and adapt the fly by wire pedal to be powerated with the cable pull... Should be possible. You could then determine how much travel you want insiide the car or how much force by moving the cable up or down the other pedal... If you know what I mean...
#60
10-30-2016, 03:04 AM
Veteran Member