Paul
Brake cleaner in an aerosol is used to ensure everything is greaseless before fitting new (or swapped in your case) pads. It is also very good for blasting all the brake dust rubbish, etc out of the caliper before refitting pads. Brake grease is really for when you assemble a new rubber seals into a caliper body, as part of rebuilding one - not normally needed for a pad swap.


OB's point about checking the front pads are not jamming VERY important. If the pad does not slide easily into the caliper, light pedal pressure (even heavy if really jammed) may not press it onto the disc, thus giving uneven braking. Just ensure the pad will slip into the caliper easily. If there is any tendency to jam, grind a tiny bit off each end of the metal backing plate, having cleaned the caliper thoroughly in that area with the brake cleaner. And yes, you pull out the R clip and withdraw the pins. NOTE WHICH WAY TEH PINS WENT IN, they only go one way.


Dark fluid = water in it, so change it (as you so wisely have). Water in the fluid = it will boil when brakes are used hard = steam in the brakelines = NO BRAKES. Black bits = bits of crap flushing out of the system.
Greg

 

Not guilty BC, that was the WOz's tip!
Greg

 

Paul,

I doubt the Goose pads are/would be stuck, but check anyway.

I did "skim" them when I fitted them, always do, never try first, just a lick on the bench grinder. Too hard for me to stand up again, once I'm seated, so knowing what I know, I just grind em.

Greg is spot on with those pins, so take PICTURES, your memory aint that good.

Black specs in the fluid, that would be the alcohol in your fluid giving you the clear vision.

JOKING of course, it is as Greg also said, the muck flushing out. I would SERIOUSLY make a note to fo that fluid again in 6 months time. Your humidity is also a factor with the moisture in brake fluid.

 

Hi Bro

Next time you do this it would be better to do it the other way round.

And make sure that the Front Brake Pads can slide in and out of the Calipers 'nice and easy' before you bleed the Brakes!

While you might get away with it this time you're making it hard for yourself, as it would have been much easier to take the Brake Pads out of the

Calipers while the Caliper Pistons were not pushing on the backing pads.

Or it could make it more difficult to get a feel of how nicely they fit in the Calipers and whether or not you need to skim a little bit off with the Sander.

The Brake Pads need to be able to Slide in and out of the Calipers, just by using your fingers, or there is a possibility that one of those Front

Brake Pads might start to Jam like it 'May' have been doing before.

Which could result in the Brake Fluid Boiling (As has happened to me) and possibly causing 'The Goose' to go up in Flames.

In the event that happens! also do what I did and rescue your Mobile Phone and in my Case a Packet of Mars Bars which I had only just

purchased before you jump out of the Car! and always carry a Fire Extinguisher just in case the worst should ever happen.

It doesn't matter what method you use to bleed the Brakes, go with what you feel comfortable with but from what I could see from the Photos,

that Brake Fluid looked like it was full of tiny bubbles but perhaps you took the photo before you had got them all out.

Or if not you could have been drawing Air in from around the Bleed Screw, you will know if your pedal starts going soft.

Keep that Brake Cleaning Fluid well away from the Caliper Pistons, just in case it melts the rubbers of makes them go soft.

 

Cheers Grant. Yeah I think I am going to have to schedule in 6 monthly brake fluid changes. She sits alone for 1 month at a time and being summer down here it has also been very humid of late. Oh well...practice makes perfect.

Ok I'll check these pads just as a matter of practice so I can swap them out when the time comes for real.

So...red face time Do they come out as I think they come out.....looks to me like you have to pull that bottom left hair pin (can't really see it in the photo)


Then it looks like I have to tap out those big pins yeah (top and bottom)


Then just pull them out with pliers correct or have I lost the plot?


Also is the rotor supposed to look like this:


It doesn't really have a groove in it but lots of dirty lines...

Thanks in advance guys....

 

All correct as to pad removal method, Paul. There are also pad anti-rattle springs there that go over the pad and under the pins. Also ensure these go back as they were. The discs are OK as far as it is possible to see, such lines on them are normal. It is if a disc gets warped, so you feel a beat through the pedal at low speeds, or juddering at speed when braking, that they need changing. Otherwise you change them when they get too thin, which yours never will with light use. Having said that, when the time comes, new pads and new discs always make you realise just how good a top condition set of brakes feel!
Greg

 

Hi Bro

There is a 'Hair Clip Pin' in both the Top and Bottom locking bars and after you take those out, knock out those Pins with a Hammer and Nail or a Screwdriver or whatever.

Just watch those Springs don't decide to fly off and hit you in the face.

You really ought to check the fit of the Brake Pads before you go any further, as that was the whole object of the Exercise (was it not?) as your Car was pulling to the right.

Or it could easily happen again and take you into the path of other traffic, these problems when left unchecked don't get better they get worse.

 

Cheers OB.

On my RH front I can see only one cotter pin but if I look closely there is another on the top Left hand side but the loop bit has gone:


The LH side seems pretty kocher. Both cotter pins can be seen on the top and bottom right hand side of the caliper.....but...I did notice the retaining clip on the top left handside isnt' behind the pin...better fix that


So...If I take out one pad at a time...do I need to put in a bit of wood in its place as mentioned previously?

Should I give them a spray with brake clean and also in and around the caliper with same said spray?

We only talked of front discs....I am assuming I should do the same check with those barstool inboard rears?

 

Hi Bro

If you pull a Brake Pad just replace it with a piece of wood, just to stop the pistons falling out.

As for the Brake Cleaning Fluid, I should follow Greg's advice.

No need to remove the Rear Brake Pads if they seem to be working ok, just make sure the Front Brake Pads can Slide in and out nice and easy.

 

Ok guys heres the verdict so far...

Got all the bits n pieces out with the BFH..


Said bits n pieces. Looks like I could do with a nice new cotter pin..


Ok..got the first one out..but....definitely not by fingers only. She took some levering with a screw driver...bit of swearing...a bit of back n forth and she finally came:

Does this pad look about normal?


Do these piston seals look about normal?


Other side of caliper...I have no idea what is normal and what is not:


At any rate I will have to duck down to the auto parts place and get some brake clean tomorrow to clean things up. Just to confirm I will spray the pad and also inside around the caliper so it will remove all grease before re-insertion.

And to re-iterate she was not easy to come out....took some levering and I thought she wasn't going to come...but came in the end...

Hopefully I will be hooning around the streets by tomorrow arvo.

 

OK.

Pads look fine.

Pistons and boots in the snap look fine also.

I would put those pads in the vice, with a wood protector for the lining side, and file the ends of the metal backing a bit, nothing silly, just a decent dress will remove the imperfections that are jamming those pads, so maybe I did not grind them enough, but they certainly slid in sweet when I did them.

BUT, those pads look like some sticky goo on the metal section that contacts the pistons???????, and I never use that stuff, do not believe in it, as it causes all sorts of issues, in MY OPINION. I am confused now as to when I did the pads on that car???, maybe longer ago than I remember, and someone else has put them in there. I will ask when I find him.

Just make sure NO ONE touches the brake pedal whilst those pads are out, I would hear the language down here if that happened.

 

Cheers Grant. You are always a sigh of relief

I gather if you put the pedal on when the pad is out those bloody pistons fall out aye? Now I understand what OB meant. Ok will be careful lol.

So when you say file the ends you just do top AND bottom of the metal plate that the actual pad is stuck to...sounds simply enough.

Yes I did wonder about that goo...didn't taste too good either (kidding!). Is that what this brake grease is used for you get in the tube? Sounds like you know a few good reasons not to use it...

You reckon with the symptoms described I only need to do the front's only?

Heaps of brake dust all around there. I was gonna duck out to Supercrap and get some brake clean spray tomorrow. Is it ok to spray it both on the pads and around near the pistons and calipers? Does that spray have any adverse affects if you get it on the rotor? (no?)

 

yes and yes.

No need to use the grease. Leave it alone!

Fronts only as far as easing the pads in the calipers is concerned.

No need to spray the pads at all. Just use the brake cleaner aerosol to get all the caliper slots for the pads completely clean of dust and rubbish. The stuff will not contaminate the discs, it evaporates very fast.
Greg

 

Hi Bro

Great Job!

Everything is looking good so far.

Whenever I put New Brake Pads in, I Wiz the electric disc sander over each end of the pad and I even do that with old ones, that I am taking out and then replacing.

So they Slide in and out nice and easy, using fingers only!

If you can get them to do that, then they shouldn't Jam when you're driving the Car as I have had that happen and that is an experience that I don't want to repeat.

Also get the wire brush on those locking Pins, as a Brake Pad can Jam on those as well.

If you can't get a New Hairpin Clip, you could use a Split Pin as a Temporary measure, so take a locking pin with you, to make sure you get the right size.

That Brake Fluid did not look good, it looked full of Air Bubbles.

If it were me I would Bleed them again but that is up to you.

When you've got the Pads back in then you can see how She feels and then take it from there.



Just Wizz a bit off the Top and Bottom Edge with a Sander or File, until the Brake Pads Slide in and out nice and easy using fingers only.

 

Pistons popping out will really spoil your day.

Rubber Grease/Brake Grease is used on the internals of cylinders etc to make the rubber components more slippery for assembly. I have never used it, I simply dip what I am assembling in clean brake fluid and have no issues.

That goo you have is a product called Anti Squeal, and is similar to RTV, and is like snake oil to me. Jag brakes do not squeal, and if they did, it would be during the bedding in process only. OK, pad material is the cause of that. That RTV stuff was meant to adhere the pad backing to the piston to stop chatter squeal, which early disc barake systems were reeked with, Cortina's was one I remember well.

The part 0f the backing to file is the ends, where they slide into the cavity of the caliper. If it were mine, I would be removing that GOO first, as that probably stuck the pad to the piston, and made removal as hard as it was. Then trial fit the pad, and if needed, shave some off the backing ends.

Brake clean is fine to spray around, take care, NOT on the paint, it is a good stripper. It evaporates quickly, so no residue left over.

 

Thanks, Thanks and Thanks.

O.B those pics I took were in the process. Not sure at what stage can't remember. I believe I got the bubbles out but a drive around the block should tell me I guess.

Also mate, I noticed with your brake pads, your pads are level with the backing plate. Is this a Marelli thing? If you look at mine I have a couple of mm top and bottom clearance from the pad:
. Or is that just how much you actually shaved off?

Also just curious with your Marelli XJS do the still have the In board rear brakes? I seem to recall after a certain year that went the same as the front.

So we check the fronts for ease of getting pads in and out...what is different about the inboard rears? Believe me I don't want to pull them out unless I have to but just curious as to why we are most concerned about the front? The fronts have more pistons correct? (4 vs 2?)

Guys thanks for your patience and all of the above.

 

Hi Bro

Unless you intend to replace the Rear Brake Pads, then let well alone, although its no more difficult than replacing the ones at the Front.

I've just replaced my Rear Brake Pads and only did that because my Car had been standing for so long and I also wanted to make sure the

Calipers were working like they should be and it only took an hour to do them both.

So since your Rear Brake Pads haven't been giving a Problem, leave them alone until the Pads need replacing.

Owing to the variance in Brake Pad Manufacture there is no guarantee that Brake Pads will fit straight out of the box.

So they sometimes need a bit of fettling, to ensure a good fit and I had to grind at least 1mm off mine but this can also vary depending on where

they are made as its no good if you have to force them in.

But in total Contrast the Rear Brake Pads only needed a very light skim.

All you really have to do, is to make sure they can slide in and out just by using your fingers.

My Car which is a Pre-Facelift (Marelli) also has Inboard Brakes the same as yours.

As for Air in the System, see how the Pedal Feels when She's all back together and if you are happy with the Result, then put the Front Wheels

on and go for a Test Drive.

 

Paul,

Worry NOT about the material. Every manufacturer has their own idea on how much material is needed, and that is a longer thread than the oil threads, trust me.

The STEEL backing plate is the item in question,

The area INSIDE the caliper where the pads fit, gets FULL of gooey crud, and this MUST be cleaned out, Brake Clean, a screwdriver, and sit down and clean it.

Trial those pads before filing, and AFTER that goo is gone, they may be fine.

DO NOT attack the lining material.

 

Well well...a busy day on the brakes.

I pulled out each brake pad one at a time, starting with the RH first. I found each was quite hard to get out and I had to lever them out, top and bottom and repeat. Finally I could get them out with the pliers but boy there weren't easy to get out.

So began grinding down the top and bottom and cleaning out the inside of the calipers with brake clean.

After she first came out:


Time to get serious:


In the process...getting shiny. Oh....and my grinding skills suck:


Next I was able to get them both back in...now I wouldn't say I could simply push them back in. There was much back and forth with the grinder and eventually I got to the stage I could get the pad and lever it up and down and push in she goes. Could pull it out with my fingers with a bit of effort so figured that was ok. Also cleaned as much goo as I could off the back of the metal backing plate. And yes inside the calipers where they groove in.

Finally I needed one R-Clip to replace the one missing (in its place was a bit of wire or something). Found a packet at the hardware store. Looked bigger but actually the same size...just a bigger loop on the end:



Then as I was putting it back in I got a from the WoOz

Wow..I must admit I was a little star struck. Grant is so easy to talk to and like a talking on all things Jaguar and beyond. What a wealth of knowledge. Thank you Grant

So anyway this was the finished product on the RH side (note the bigger looped R-clip)


My next "oh crap" moment...I realised that those R-Clips..if you are not careful...can poke a pin hole in the rubbers!


A quick call to the WoOz put my mind at ease however.

So .....I did the same the other side pulling out the brake pads and smoothing them down. Back in and went for a test drive.


mmmm....brakes seemed actually quite good after a bleed and a bit of the above maintenance ...but....

 

The difficulty in getting the pads really easy to put in and pout, now you have ground the edges, is probably because the actual pistons are still as close to the rotors as they are when actually driving. So no worries there, almost certainly.
As to brakes pulling, I suggest you get in the car, find an empty bit of road and do about 8 really hard stops from about 60 MPH (including actuating the ABS if you have it) and then see what they are like. If they are pulling still after that, and I HATE brakes anything but 100%, I would seriously consider two steps: (a) fit new pads to the front; you do not need much contamination to make a big friction difference. If that does not work then replace/rebuild the front calipers (rebuild kits not at all dear, easily done in under a day) and replace the front rotors. Rotors are not at all expensive. It will make a huge difference to the quality of the brake feel, and is FAR better than scaring yourself ++++less one day or worse (as OB will confirm)!
Greg