Rear Camber Adjustment - rear Shims
#21
10-02-2015, 06:24 AM
Veteran Member
#22
10-02-2015, 01:11 PM
interesting. I am afraid to see how much they cost. they essentially seem like a spacer with a handle attached. definitely something I can make. I like the idea. similar to the washer idea.
so Im assuming at this point that the spacer and shim are the same thing?
the question that I cant come up with even a modicum of an answer for is who the hell stole my spacers and why?
so Im assuming at this point that the spacer and shim are the same thing?
the question that I cant come up with even a modicum of an answer for is who the hell stole my spacers and why?
Last edited by hoodun; 10-02-2015 at 01:27 PM.
#23
10-02-2015, 01:56 PM
Veteran Member
The spacer and the shim are NOT the same thing. The spacers are to get the rear camber into the ballpark. The shims MUCH thinner, different shape, are to finely adjust it.
Forget about the camber setting links, nothing to do with your problem. I set up my rear camber with a spirit level, took the car to the tracker and it was bang on. Just get it so the top of the wheel is slightly tipping inwards on a spirit level bubble and you will not ne far off.
Greg
Last edited by Greg in France; 10-02-2015 at 01:58 PM.
#25
10-02-2015, 02:50 PM
Hoodun
The spacer and the shim are NOT the same thing. The spacers are to get the rear camber into the ballpark. The shims MUCH thinner, different shape, are to finely adjust it.
Forget about the camber setting links, nothing to do with your problem. I set up my rear camber with a spirit level, took the car to the tracker and it was bang on. Just get it so the top of the wheel is slightly tipping inwards on a spirit level bubble and you will not ne far off.
Greg
The spacer and the shim are NOT the same thing. The spacers are to get the rear camber into the ballpark. The shims MUCH thinner, different shape, are to finely adjust it.
Forget about the camber setting links, nothing to do with your problem. I set up my rear camber with a spirit level, took the car to the tracker and it was bang on. Just get it so the top of the wheel is slightly tipping inwards on a spirit level bubble and you will not ne far off.
Greg
Last edited by hoodun; 10-02-2015 at 02:54 PM.
#26
10-02-2015, 03:16 PM
to recap this: I have serious alignment issues. it turns out the spacers are missing from my 94 xjs (very odd and not typical) resulting in a lot of negative camber. I need to get new spacers, along with that I am going to attempt to do the alignment myself with homemade tools and shims from the dealer.
Last edited by hoodun; 10-02-2015 at 07:20 PM.
#27
10-02-2015, 09:28 PM
Veteran Member
There are 2 ways you could go here.
1. Buy a set of OLD used disks (off the later GKN diff) and have the disk machined off (or could even leave it on), which will leave you with a spacer. You will then need the IB disk shims to set wheel alignment.
2. The XJ40/earlyX300 used a similar drive shaft setup as the XJS, these spacers will fit.
1. Buy a set of OLD used disks (off the later GKN diff) and have the disk machined off (or could even leave it on), which will leave you with a spacer. You will then need the IB disk shims to set wheel alignment.
2. The XJ40/earlyX300 used a similar drive shaft setup as the XJS, these spacers will fit.
#28
10-02-2015, 10:13 PM
There are 2 ways you could go here.
1. Buy a set of OLD used disks (off the later GKN diff) and have the disk machined off (or could even leave it on), which will leave you with a spacer. You will then need the IB disk shims to set wheel alignment.
2. The XJ40/earlyX300 used a similar drive shaft setup as the XJS, these spacers will fit.
1. Buy a set of OLD used disks (off the later GKN diff) and have the disk machined off (or could even leave it on), which will leave you with a spacer. You will then need the IB disk shims to set wheel alignment.
2. The XJ40/earlyX300 used a similar drive shaft setup as the XJS, these spacers will fit.
heres the camber. I never thought anything was wrong. the guys who installed the tires (Big O) never said anything either...
Last edited by hoodun; 10-02-2015 at 10:21 PM.
#29
10-03-2015, 12:59 AM
Veteran Member
Wow thats a lot of neg camber.
You could use brake rotors and leave them in tacked it does not matter the condition of the rotor as long as the center mounting is good.
It would just be neater to machine the rotor to remove the disk from the center, but not necessary.
Those generic spacers I have no idea. By the time you bought 2 and had them modified it would more than likely be cheaper to have a set of spacers made. I would go with the old IB rotors.
You could use brake rotors and leave them in tacked it does not matter the condition of the rotor as long as the center mounting is good.
It would just be neater to machine the rotor to remove the disk from the center, but not necessary.
Those generic spacers I have no idea. By the time you bought 2 and had them modified it would more than likely be cheaper to have a set of spacers made. I would go with the old IB rotors.
Last edited by warrjon; 10-03-2015 at 01:02 AM.
#30
10-03-2015, 01:52 AM
Veteran Member
The shims are not in the diagram. They are part no C16621, eg from David Manners
Part search results from David Manners Ltd - C16621
It is not certain that you need the shims at all, provided you have the correct spacers. So, to repeat, first one side then the other:
- Undo the driveshafts from the diff output (4 metloc nuts)
- Shove in some home made spacers JUST TO GET THE CAMBER ROUGHLY OK, using washers or whatever you have to hand
- Car back on its rear wheels, measure the camber.
- Repeat until the camber is about right (eg on a vertical spirit level, just a touch in at the top).
- Accurately measure the gap between the driveshaft and the diff flanges that your home made spacers have made
- order up the correct SPACER size. Link here, each size has a different part number, expand the description of no 3 for the sizes and part numbers: Halfshaft Assembly-From (V)188105 - Parts For XJS from (V)179737 to (V)226645 | Jaguar Heritage Parts UK Go slightly under size rather than over.
- Put it all together and get it accurately measured. If there is a touch too much negative camber still, ADD a shim (part number C16621); but I suspect you will not need shims at all provided you have the correct spacer. Jaguar Classic Parts do not list the shims for your model.
Greg
#31
10-03-2015, 02:15 AM
Veteran Member
My apologies the advice Greg has given is the correct way to fix this problem.
I tend to look for alternative ways.
The Spacers are available in a number of sizes and are correct for setting camber on the OB rear end. The shims are used to set camber on the IB rear end as both brake discs are the same thickness.
I tend to look for alternative ways.
The Spacers are available in a number of sizes and are correct for setting camber on the OB rear end. The shims are used to set camber on the IB rear end as both brake discs are the same thickness.
#32
10-03-2015, 03:39 AM
now it makes sense! the different sized spacers confused the linguistics of things.
I will throw in a bunch of shims since they are less than a dollar each. just in case. also, I am seeing the guy at the shop wrote down the same part number CO-16621 for my car. I was unsure of what that was until now. he told me to call a guy at xks unlimited and wrote that number down...
like you said best to go undersized with the spacer... I will get it to -1 degree. does that sound about right?
I measured it last night with an app called clinometer. the front wheels came out to 0 and the rears -3 to -4 degrees. so it seems the tool is accurate. I will post picts of it soon.
I will throw in a bunch of shims since they are less than a dollar each. just in case. also, I am seeing the guy at the shop wrote down the same part number CO-16621 for my car. I was unsure of what that was until now. he told me to call a guy at xks unlimited and wrote that number down...
like you said best to go undersized with the spacer... I will get it to -1 degree. does that sound about right?
I measured it last night with an app called clinometer. the front wheels came out to 0 and the rears -3 to -4 degrees. so it seems the tool is accurate. I will post picts of it soon.
#34
10-04-2015, 04:58 AM
Veteran Member
#35
10-04-2015, 05:01 AM
Veteran Member
#36
10-05-2015, 02:10 AM
So there were actually spacers in my photo. They are 5.5mm.
After adding washers, I discovered I will need 8mm total at minimum (this brings it to -1 negative camber) on the left. 8.5 will probably be perfect. 8mm total on the right gets me to -.8 camber.
I will order the appropriate amount of spacers and shims to get me where I need to be. I am debating getting 30 or so shims at .99 each or getting a few shims and a spacer.
The big question is how do I install them. It looks like the shafts need to come out, as the bolts cannot be removed. it would have been nice if the bolts and nuts were reversed. Unfortunately there is not enough room.
After adding washers, I discovered I will need 8mm total at minimum (this brings it to -1 negative camber) on the left. 8.5 will probably be perfect. 8mm total on the right gets me to -.8 camber.
I will order the appropriate amount of spacers and shims to get me where I need to be. I am debating getting 30 or so shims at .99 each or getting a few shims and a spacer.
The big question is how do I install them. It looks like the shafts need to come out, as the bolts cannot be removed. it would have been nice if the bolts and nuts were reversed. Unfortunately there is not enough room.
Last edited by hoodun; 10-05-2015 at 02:16 AM.
#37
10-05-2015, 05:27 AM
Veteran Member
So there were actually spacers in my photo. They are 5.5mm.
After adding washers, I discovered I will need 8mm total at minimum (this brings it to -1 negative camber) on the left. 8.5 will probably be perfect. 8mm total on the right gets me to -.8 camber.
I will order the appropriate amount of spacers and shims to get me where I need to be. I am debating getting 30 or so shims at .99 each or getting a few shims and a spacer.
The big question is how do I install them. It looks like the shafts need to come out, as the bolts cannot be removed. it would have been nice if the bolts and nuts were reversed. Unfortunately there is not enough room.
After adding washers, I discovered I will need 8mm total at minimum (this brings it to -1 negative camber) on the left. 8.5 will probably be perfect. 8mm total on the right gets me to -.8 camber.
I will order the appropriate amount of spacers and shims to get me where I need to be. I am debating getting 30 or so shims at .99 each or getting a few shims and a spacer.
The big question is how do I install them. It looks like the shafts need to come out, as the bolts cannot be removed. it would have been nice if the bolts and nuts were reversed. Unfortunately there is not enough room.
Hoodun
You undo the four nuts that are holding the flange on the inner end of the driveshaft to the diff output shaft. This should enable you to pull the wheelhub outwards, swivelling it on the bottom wishbone outer fulcrum. This in turn pulls the driveshaft inner flange from the diff output flange. Then you insert the spacers. All this is easier with the wheel off and the shockers disconnected from their bottom mounts. Also, if the shocks are off, you can set up the camber with the car off the ground, as you can push the axle assembly with a jack up to its normal attitude, if you measure (eg) the distance from a known point on the body to the hub top when the car is on its wheels.
How do you know if you need 8mm in total if you have not done this already and trialled the measurements? The top to bottom tyre difference is not the shim thickness dimension you need, remember.
If you are considering using (say) 30 thin shims in place of one proper spacer would be a very unwise and I would think dangerous considering the forces involved. I strongly believe that a thick stack of thin shims would not be safe to use in place of a single spacer (or at most two spacers if needed, as max spacer thickness available is 7mm I think). A shim is designed to be sandwiched in between thick steel parts, not to make a half inch spacer.
Greg
Last edited by Greg in France; 10-05-2015 at 05:30 AM.
#38
10-05-2015, 09:59 AM
Hoodun
You undo the four nuts that are holding the flange on the inner end of the driveshaft to the diff output shaft. This should enable you to pull the wheelhub outwards, swivelling it on the bottom wishbone outer fulcrum. This in turn pulls the driveshaft inner flange from the diff output flange. Then you insert the spacers. All this is easier with the wheel off and the shockers disconnected from their bottom mounts. Also, if the shocks are off, you can set up the camber with the car off the ground, as you can push the axle assembly with a jack up to its normal attitude, if you measure (eg) the distance from a known point on the body to the hub top when the car is on its wheels.
How do you know if you need 8mm in total if you have not done this already and trialled the measurements? The top to bottom tyre difference is not the shim thickness dimension you need, remember.
If you are considering using (say) 30 thin shims in place of one proper spacer would be a very unwise and I would think dangerous considering the forces involved. I strongly believe that a thick stack of thin shims would not be safe to use in place of a single spacer (or at most two spacers if needed, as max spacer thickness available is 7mm I think). A shim is designed to be sandwiched in between thick steel parts, not to make a half inch spacer.
Greg
You undo the four nuts that are holding the flange on the inner end of the driveshaft to the diff output shaft. This should enable you to pull the wheelhub outwards, swivelling it on the bottom wishbone outer fulcrum. This in turn pulls the driveshaft inner flange from the diff output flange. Then you insert the spacers. All this is easier with the wheel off and the shockers disconnected from their bottom mounts. Also, if the shocks are off, you can set up the camber with the car off the ground, as you can push the axle assembly with a jack up to its normal attitude, if you measure (eg) the distance from a known point on the body to the hub top when the car is on its wheels.
How do you know if you need 8mm in total if you have not done this already and trialled the measurements? The top to bottom tyre difference is not the shim thickness dimension you need, remember.
If you are considering using (say) 30 thin shims in place of one proper spacer would be a very unwise and I would think dangerous considering the forces involved. I strongly believe that a thick stack of thin shims would not be safe to use in place of a single spacer (or at most two spacers if needed, as max spacer thickness available is 7mm I think). A shim is designed to be sandwiched in between thick steel parts, not to make a half inch spacer.
Greg
I will get the spacer if I need more than 3 shims. Not that this is any validity but in this video at 1:45 he has four shims... though I do hear what you are saying and was questioning the max amount of shims that can be used. It seems 4 would be the limit, based on this video and other documentation I just read which says "three, but if you have to four"..
Last edited by hoodun; 10-05-2015 at 10:59 AM.
#39
10-06-2015, 05:32 AM
Veteran Member
#40
10-06-2015, 09:04 PM
I read a pdf that went in to depth with shims on different pieces of equipment. it is "common for people to stuff a bunch of shims" into something. mechanical engineers recommend "not going over 3, but 4 should be ok". anything more and they start to have concerns over movement.