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seems most GOOD engine builders have there own ways of lightening the rotating assemblies, rods, pistons, pins, even using light weight rings.
along with how they lighten a crankshaft,(notice that crank shown is a Cast iron shaft).
myself i would use an aftermarket custom rod ,actually made for performance work.
but i have rewoked factory rods, close to what we see here, but would also remove the forging flash from sides, polish it, then shotpeen the complete rod,( not touching the bearing surfaces).
OK, a lightend rotating assembly will allow the engine to rev up quicker/faster, some go as far as Titainium metal(approx. 1/3 lighter than steel).
anything you can SAFELY do to lighten spinning components ,should help performance , the key is how far to go before things become weak/lose strenth!
experience and practice and a lot of basic logic cant hurt things!
i have built a number of engines using FORGED ALUMINUM rods, never gave me any problems that i know of, also on any rod i would try to use good rod bolts and nuts, i personally like the bolt to screw into the base of the rod without any nuts at all.
the a final resize of the BE, to be sure things are proper! like C/C size.
some say aluminum can strech, but i never had one do it,unless engine reved over 10,000rpm.
crankshaft, a carefull exam for minute cracks(magnaflux etc.), things can get dicy if you are not carefull or lucky, they did a nice job on oil flow holes, but i did not see any cross drilling for 360 oiling on either mains or rod journals, but smoothing and some hand work cant hurt or help, to each his own!
engines can become a thing of beauty even on the inside!
then you got the guy doing the actual balancing, hoping he is practiced at his art!
Calvin is not the super charged V6 guy. I actually got to meet Calvin when I sold him the Pre-HE heads he was intending to use for this project. At the time he was a very young man, 19 or there about. Very smart, knowledgeable and enterprising. He had already converted his XJS to a manual transmission at this point. We spoke some more and he detailed his plans to me in person and we chatted for quite awhile when he picked up the parts. I got the impression he knew what was involved but as a student with a part time Job his ambitions were well ahead of his resources at that time. I don't know his present situation and I wish he would chime in and up date us all. If this project fell by the way side, I wouldn't be surprised. As a once young man myself, I understand its common to for interests to wane and would not be surprised if he moved on to something even more ambitious.
Hey guys, I was looking up some pictures of jaguar v12 intakes and I was like "hey I think I posted those myself." so I logged back in to let everyone know I was still alive. The motor is all done awaiting the drivers side headers to be fabricated, and I'm going to be working on the intake soon since ive gained access to the "art" studio at my school.
Ive put the jag on the backburner for now, but I will hopefully still be working on it here and there and can keep everyone updated.
I recently picked up and 85 buick regal t type that I am doing a pro touring restoration on with a big single turbo. and I am just finising up a 1979 Honda cb750f Freddie spencer clone with a full fuel injection conversion. and somewhere in there I have to fix my ducati 748 (which needs a gas tank) So I have been super busy and trying to be ambitious.
But being full time in school while trying to run a fabrication company and build your own stuff can be difficult!
Thanks for the nice words ICS, good to see you guys are keeping the quest for v12 horsepower alive.
These are almost the same
But I do not have AJ16 4.0 . Only XJR, 4.0 XJ40, AJ16 3.2.
As I saw the pictures AJ16 4.0 has a flat bottom
Now looking for pistons
The overall height of the piston looks close, but I see a world of difference! The crown(s) of all 4 are totally different. Hard to tell in pics the pin height difference. I am building a 6.0 to supercharge. From the math I did, a .200 inch thick head gasket takes the compression down almost 2 full points. On the other hand, looking at the XJR piston, I could see where compression could be lowered much more, whereas the 3.2 would dramatically increase compression.
Why bother changing pistons? Skin the cat another way (pun intended) Offset grind the crank to 2.1 and use chevy rods, I'll let you do the maths on that. You could even increase the stroke at the same time and use shorter rods. Another method would be to add a perimeter shim and liner shim to give the clearance. Lister often used liner shims to get Group A liner bite on std head gaskets. Far cheaper than getting the special head gaskets made by Cooper Payten and no 6-8 week wait. But now we have Cometic anyhow.
As I said, the engine is very tired.
The liners are worn more than 0.05mm, the pistons have a 0.05mm. One liner at all can not get. Probably let the roots.
Why bother changing pistons? Skin the cat another way (pun intended) Offset grind the crank to 2.1 and use chevy rods, I'll let you do the maths on that. You could even increase the stroke at the same time and use shorter rods. Another method would be to add a perimeter shim and liner shim to give the clearance. Lister often used liner shims to get Group A liner bite on std head gaskets. Far cheaper than getting the special head gaskets made by Cooper Payten and no 6-8 week wait. But now we have Cometic anyhow.
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you could also cut the top of block deck to clamp the head tighter against the liners!
most jag V12 s suffered combustion leaks,especially after 20/23hrs racing, becuase of open deck blocks,.
could be cut 1/2 inch and weld a thick plate be much stronger,for endurance racing, or highly super/turbocharging pressures, would give enough material to use a custom top lipped liner, with o-rings at bottom bore to seal coolant!
i personally like a tight squish area, like mentioned earlier!
but to each his own on performance engine building!
As I said, the engine is very tired.
The liners are worn more than 0.05mm, the pistons have a 0.05mm. One liner at all can not get. Probably let the roots.
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if you feel the engine worn beyond standard specs, and you can afford it,use the best methods available to build a truly strong powerful BULLET!
1st and for most all the cubics you can afford, then work out well known sealing systems, from cooling to oiling.
a good steel bottom end GIRDLE for the main cap setup, we have used welded steel bar arraingments that have stood up to 1000lbs ft, on old fashioned American V8s, dont need no blocks to twist out of shape,when hot and reaching peak torque!
just gotta love car crazy Americans, when free to think out of a structuerd box!
Man, this stuff is way over my head, but I love reading about it, and going off to google one little tidbit after another. Great for academic curiosity, but I won't be doing any engine building soon!
Man, this stuff is way over my head, but I love reading about it, and going off to google one little tidbit after another. Great for academic curiosity, but I won't be doing any engine building soon!
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u guys should have been around before Google and the internet, we had to use only our logic and commonsense to build anything!
Gee/whiz; now just about any knowledge is available and then some!
and i call it old fashioned American hot rodders, most knowledge was handed down from old timers, born around 1900/1950s, they had some intangible logic that i hope never is brain washed away!!
" this centuries philosophies, will be the next centuries commonsense."
As I said, the engine is very tired.
The liners are worn more than 0.05mm, the pistons have a 0.05mm. One liner at all can not get. Probably let the roots.
Well that would be a new one on me, I have never come across a Jaguar V12 where the pistons and liners are worn out! Most at 100K miles still have the cross hatching half way down the bore.
Might aswell get chevy race rods, cheap as chips on Ebay. As 2.1 is the std Chevy size bearings will also be cheap, so cheap that the cost of rods and bearings might be little more than the cost of std jaguar bearings alone! Get the ex race ones, maybe Carrillo etc. stronger lighter just better in every way.
Should be a number of threads telling you about it all.
YUP! a tuning nightmare, it would require a much better Electromotive than ECU 1,
computer would go nuts trying to keep an A/F ratio and ignition timing ,so as to not blowup the engine, and control manifold pressures going from negative to positive, opening flaps and valves ETC. in the piping of inlets sides and hot side exhausts!
Not that I going to really do it, but, something didn't quite sit right with me about what is quoted above, so I contacted Electromotive, told them that The TEC1's ability to manage a twincharged V12 was brought into question. This was the original email I sent them, and their response:
I bought a wrecked Jaguar XJS which had a 5.3l V12, controlled by a TEC1. The TEC1 has been updated so that it can be tuned with Wintec2 software.
I have installed the motor in another XJS I have, and, I am playing with the idea of twincharging it with two M90 superchargers, and two turbos. When I mentioned this idea on a Jaguar forum, someone said the TEC1 wont be able to handle twincharging a V12. Will it? If not, do you have a TEC which can?
In what regard do they mean it won’t handle it? If the question is whether it can be reprogrammed to compensate for the addition of forced induction, then absolutely it can. If the question is whether it has the type of auxiliary controls found in our newer systems that might be used for things like boost control, then the answer is no, the TEC1 has limited GPO capabilities. That said, a boost controller costs a lot less than a new TEC system.
Not that I going to really do it, but, something didn't quite sit right with me about what is quoted above, so I contacted Electromotive, told them that The TEC1's ability to manage a twincharged V12 was brought into question. This was the original email I sent them, and their response:
I bought a wrecked Jaguar XJS which had a 5.3l V12, controlled by a TEC1. The TEC1 has been updated so that it can be tuned with Wintec2 software.
I have installed the motor in another XJS I have, and, I am playing with the idea of twincharging it with two M90 superchargers, and two turbos. When I mentioned this idea on a Jaguar forum, someone said the TEC1 wont be able to handle twincharging a V12. Will it? If not, do you have a TEC which can?.
In what regard do they mean it won’t handle it? If the question is whether it can be reprogrammed to compensate for the addition of forced induction, then absolutely it can. If the question is whether it has the type of auxiliary controls found in our newer systems that might be used for things like boost control, then the answer is no, the TEC1 has limited GPO capabilities. That said, a boost controller costs a lot less than a new TEC system.
i sure they electromotive knows more about there ECU than i,but do you know more about tuning a forced induction engine?, vs. an N/A engine.
remember you will be the final person to make it run and stay running!
unless you have the money to have a professional tuner come in and work the complete tuning A/F ignition Maps out.
i have seen guys spend as much money on tuning as the complete forced air feeding system!
as i see it you gotta get into the real act, build it and they will come. notice electro. said a reprogram would be needed ,im sure it wouldnt do well without a reprgram and then some, ask if they can warrentee the engine??
Hey did you see the Pontiac GTO i posted, Richmond 6 speed transmission!
You must remember that the key person in this whole process is the tuner. whatever you build and at what ever level or expense the tuner will determine what you get out of the engine and its survivability/longevity. Most tuners wont push an engine to the limit unless you press them and then at your risk. It doesn't matter how good your engine is , what has been done to it and how good the dyno facilities are if the tuner is unhappy unfamiliar with the ECU you present him with. So I would respectfully suggest you do this another way or maybe the other way around. Find a local tuner with a good reputation. Talk to him and tell him what you want and are planning to do. Ask his advice. Listen to his advise and act on it. Supply him with what he want to do the job . which might well be a different ECU system. You end up happy, he is happy and your engine will be happy too = Result.
Happiness is having a young lad who is so fast at learning CAD FEA Solid works etc that he is re engineering the V12 for me bit by bit. It helps to have the original TWR drawings of course. He just re did the race cam carrier caps and I will get them printed (+ the shrinkage) tomorrow (we ran out of ABS !) and off to the foundry Monday. I just wish I could learn still at a fraction of that speed.
If anyone has any V12 related stuff they want on CAD or whatever for pocket money prices let me know!
Happiness is having a young lad who is so fast at learning CAD FEA Solid works etc that he is re engineering the V12 for me bit by bit. It helps to have the original TWR drawings of course. He just re did the race cam carrier caps and I will get them printed (+ the shrinkage) tomorrow (we ran out of ABS !) and off to the foundry Monday. I just wish I could learn still at a fraction of that speed.
If anyone has any V12 related stuff they want on CAD or whatever for pocket money prices let me know!
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xjr5006; how do you think i feel about learning, in the computer field, im 81 yrs old, and still loving fast cars and nice ENGINES.
that is a great drawing of a cam cap by the by!
google steve morris ,develsixteen, engines talk about a new world of CAD/CAM /CNC ,engines.
the world is changing so fast now, no way we can keep up.
Not that I going to really do it, but, something didn't quite sit right with me about what is quoted above, so I contacted Electromotive, told them that The TEC1's ability to manage a twincharged V12 was brought into question. This was the original email I sent them, and their response:
I bought a wrecked Jaguar XJS which had a 5.3l V12, controlled by a TEC1. The TEC1 has been updated so that it can be tuned with Wintec2 software.
I have installed the motor in another XJS I have, and, I am playing with the idea of twincharging it with two M90 superchargers, and two turbos. When I mentioned this idea on a Jaguar forum, someone said the TEC1 wont be able to handle twincharging a V12. Will it? If not, do you have a TEC which can?
In what regard do they mean it won’t handle it? If the question is whether it can be reprogrammed to compensate for the addition of forced induction, then absolutely it can. If the question is whether it has the type of auxiliary controls found in our newer systems that might be used for things like boost control, then the answer is no, the TEC1 has limited GPO capabilities. That said, a boost controller costs a lot less than a new TEC system.
Ron, and xjr5006,
I definitely appreciate comments by both of you, because you each have far more hands-on experience in the performance arena than I will ever have, and, it's insight like this, that makes these forums such a great asset.
As I have said several times already, I'm probably not going to do this. I certainly won't be starting such a project this year, but, I DO have a very strong desire to do it...mostly, just because nobody else has done it yet. I also think that I can do it inexpensively (relatively), since I already have a spare HE with ported heads (needs at least one new piston anyways, due to an injector failure) and I have the pricey, programmable (and old) ECU. Even if I don't do it, discussions like this will help pave the way for for the next guy.
I've taken your advice to heart, and have done a quick Google search for tuners in the area, and will also ask some drag racer buddies if they have any recommendations. I also found out that Hesco (Hurley Engine Service Company) in Birmingham, Alabama is my nearest authorized Electromotive dealer. For anyone not familiar with that company, it is owned and operated by legendary engine builder Lee Hurley. He is also the guy who built Bradley Smith's twin Whipplecharged V12, complete with Electromotive TEC2 engine management. I believe he could definitely dial the car in. It seems that I need to make an appointment with Lee, and, schedule a trip to Birmingham in the somewhat near future. In the meantime, suggestions about how to go about basic engine modifications to handle the boost would be greatly appreciate(best & least expensive ways to lower the CR, ideal CR...I'm thinking 7-7.5, will I need stiffer valve springs to avoid valve float under boost, what size injectors, etc.).
12-23-2015, 03:25 PM
