I've never seen any head patting on this forum. People are usually candid. If an opinion is asked for ("Do you like my wheels?") the replies are generally quite candid.

The fix for uncalled-for political correctness (which nobody likes) isn't to be overtly obnoxious or offensive. Out of simple politeness (which is actually a different thing than 'politcal correctness') it's generally considered not cool for one guy to go out of his way to bash the other guy's car or ideas in a mean spirited way.





Which is what I was getting at with my earlier posts.

I suspect the OP will refrain from being gratuitously critical of Jags and Jag engines in the future. Or, let's hope so.

Cheers
DD

 

That Story...doesn't pass the smell test...Every road test I've seen on the V12 XJS shows a 1/4 mile time of about 16 seconds. A quick google search shows the LS powered WS6 turns out a 1/4 mile in high 12's low 13's at a much higher speed. Am I missing something? I've raced guys like you and trounced them up to about 85MPH, after letting off for safety, they come blowing by at some high speed moments later, thinking they've accomplished something.

Further more you are trying to make your point while detailing how your V12 blew up. I see quite a bit of irony in that.


You've clearly made significant changes to your XJS altering is demeanor and you've changed its dynamics relative to the vehicles original design and intent. Good for you! I applaud your efforts and the direction you have chosen to take YOUR vehicle. No one is insulting YOUR choices. Why do you feel its right for you to insult and disparage the choices others make freely with their vehicle?

Oh...I've clearly hit a nerve. Soul...it's a man made machine. There is no spiritual component to a man made vehicle. If there was it would only be there because you've projected one on to it in your mind. Personality...yes...maybe.

Glad to hear it for you. I think it's amazing your son wants to drive a car like his dad. I hope my son feels the same way some day. Cleary with your knowledge and carful maintenance it will soldier on like that for many miles and years to come. Unless he races some LS powered thing one day and it drops a valve seat or burns a piston.

Not really...it simply speaks to your maintenance skills and knowledge. This board is full of posts regarding overheating and a multitude of other engine problems. Few transmission problems though. The posts speak for themselves.

As for the "Mongrel" label for lumps, one could argue the XJS was a "Mongrel" to begin with...It had a GM transmission, Salsbury/Dana rear end, Lucas Electronics, Bosh injectors, Marinelli Ignition at one point, Delonaire HVAC, GM AC compressor, Adwest or ZF steering rack, Teves ABS system, Hess & Eisenhardt convertible, and on and on. Sorry but a Jaguar Intake, block & heads doesn't equate purity. Not that it really matters here but GM cars are far more pure to begin with since GM makes their own engines, transmission, rear ends, electronics, engine management and so on.

Do what YOU wish with your Jag...That's my argument.

 

I REALLY wish this forum would put up a "Lumps" section to keep this stuff isolated to the conversion lovers. 'sigh'

 

True enough.

But lets be fair. We have relatively few V8 postings here. If you go to a forum that has a large V8 conversion group, like Jag-lovers, you'll see that a V8 conversion is no guarantee that owning/repairing a Jag will be a pleasure cruise.

Years ago (if your were around you might even remember!) I did a topic-by-topic comparison of the J-L Lumps list vs. the Jaguar engine sections. There was a striking similarity! No start, hard start, overheat, runs rich, oil leaks, etc etc. Many of the problems/topics for either engine were just the same.


Cheers
DD

 

Yes, you ARE missing something. I never implied that the race was a 1/4 mile drag race. It was an impromptu street race on a somewhat empty section of interstate hiway, and was instigated by the guy in the Firebird while I was on my way home from work. It didn't end at 85mph. It began around that speed when he came up beside me, and started romping his accelerator to get my attention. At that point, we both nailed it, and we covered a good 5 miles in short order. I'm not saying it was a safe, or wise thing to do, and I don't recommend that others do it. But, I've never been one to back down from the challenge of a good race.
Also, neither my V12, nor my Turbo 400 were stock. I had ported the heads to allow them to breathe more efficiently at higher rpms, opened the exhaust, removed the snorkel airbox covers, and done a few other little things here and there. I also had a TransGo shift kit which allowed me to hold the lower gears to any rpm I wished, as well as allowing me to downshift at any rpm or speed I wished. So, neither your nose, nor, any road tests you've ever read about the XJS apply here.

The point I am making, which you seem to have missed, is that my old, antiquated V12 XJS was in the process of blowing the doors off a much newer performance car, while dipping well into triple digit speeds, when a non-Jaguar part failed. And just so we're clear on this, any racer out there will tell you there is no shame in experiencing a mechanical failure while winning a race.
I also didn't blow my motor, as you seem to think, and as would have likely been the case if the LS motor had lost a cylinder. I lost a bit of power & speed, and had a huge puff of blue smoke come out the left exhaust at that moment, and it smoked a bit every time I drove it afterward. However, the engine ran well enough that I continued to drive the car 35 miles daily, at interstate speeds until I decided what I was going to do, and secured the parts to do it, several months later.



What I did is I modified Jaguar brand parts, and either replaced or modified minor non-Jaguar brand parts, in order to enhance the performance of the car, without substituting the Jaguar engine for one from another manufacturer. The engine is one of the key elements that makes a Jaguar a Jaguar. For that matter, the engine is key to associating any car with it's manufacturer. Chevy owners would no less cry foul if someone replaced the L-88 427 in a 1967 Corvette with a Ford Boss 429. Both are rare, and desirable motors, but, the Boss 429's presence under the hood of a 67 Corvette makes that car a mongrel, rather than the low production car it was before the engine swap. Just as the presence of a GM LS turns the low volume XJS into a mongrel.

As for "having the right". I certainly feel as though I have as much right to express my opinion of the original poster's intent to corrupt what may otherwise be a fine car, as he has to come to a Jaguar forum and badmouth Jaguar's reputation. Just as you also feel that you have the right to stick your nose into the conversation and express your opinion that people who object to Chevy motors in Jags, are Chevy Haters, who don't want a faster Jaguar, and are either jealous, or purists. Such is the nature of discussion forums, and as far as I can tell, none of us has violated the user agreement.



Don't think so highly of yourself. Few people have ever struck a nerve with me, nor rattled my cage about anything, and any effort you may have made to do so in your post, didn't even register on that scale.
Soul is not a reference to any spiritual component of a car, or anything else created by man. Rather--as anyone who is passionate about automobiles, and has had the good fortune to enthusiastically drive different models of performance-oriented cars, will attest--it is a term of endearment that is commonly used to describe and embody those elements, both tangible, and intangible, which make up the essence of a particular automobile, and/or it's marque. Anyone who owns and drives their XJS, yet, has never experienced a sense of soul residing within the car may be better suited to driving a Honda Accord.


On the contrary. I don't go out of my way to maintain my Jags. One is a project car, so any work performed on it is done so with a "hobby mindset", and on a time-permitting basis. The daily driver gets the cursory oil/coolant/tire pressure check each week. The car is otherwise simply driven until something needs to be addressed. I also don't possess any extraordinary mechanical skills. I simply learned what the few problem areas are on this car, and took the steps necessary to make those areas more reliable. Anyone can do what I've done, and for the sake of the car, I hope they would do at least as much, if not more.

The Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust, as well as the majority of owners on XJS related forums would likely differ with that opinion. All manufacturers; even, and especially, your beloved GM; have vendors and subcontractors who supply a large portion of the components, and assemblies on any given vehicle they manufacture.

OK, I'm done posting on this subject, as it is one which has been, and will continue to be endlessly be debated, without winner or loser. In the end, it doesn't matter a hill of beans in the grand scheme of things, and simply causes division among enthusiasts, as it has done here.

 

and the worst part of the entire car

 

Lets compare a sports car designed for speed to a GT car designed to cruise on the freeway. The problem with you V8 swap guys is the endless quest for numbers. Why is 400hp so magical? What is wrong with a 5.3l V12 making 300hp in the 80s when V8s from 5-6liters made less than 200hp?

either way who cares about the numbers?? Is the XJS SLOW? no. maybe it is slow compared to a new corvette or a ferrari FF but it has zero problems getting around in traffic and can cruise down the highway just fine.

Does a WS6 have a better ride quality and soak up the miles like an XJS does? No it most certainly doesnt. apples and oranges

 

I'll probably leave off here saying that I've been on many different forums for different cars and the crowd differs a lot between cars.

Most of the guys on this forum, at least in the XJS section seem to know a good bit, want to get things done right, or are new and want to learn how to be this way.

The people in the nissan forums I used to be on were all hacks. There were 1-3 people who used to be techs and really knew what was up but all the owners had no problem duct taping half their crap back together.

The Land rover forums I get on now are pretty similar to the nissan forums. A lot of very ill informed people but because they are all in a community of ill informed bad mechanics they all agree with each other and think they are right.

My 10th post in the land rover forum was explaining to the 30 "regulars" how the replacement head studs ( a VERY common recommendation when doing head gaskets) is absolutely useless and even worse in many ways than stretch bolts.

All cars have common "problems". everyone always bitches about the electronics on British cars for instance. You will see the same thing if you go on toyota forums or ford forums.

My point is mostly that most XJS guys tend to know their way around a wrench and also tend to disagree with a lot of the reliability complaints as a result. This is a huge reason for the backlash on V8 swaps and any other "ghetto modding" done to these cars. I think it speaks for itself. Hand these cars to someone willing to learn and take care of them and they run as daily drivers. Hand them to people from a honda or GM forum and their solution to fixing the car is to turn it into a car they already know about.
Throw on a big *** set of brembos and no one is going to judge you, but when it comes to criticizing the engineering of the V12 or the AJ6 the XJS crowd is not one that will let it go down lightly.

 

I think the v12 is an great engineering accomplishment for its time. I've had two, a pre HE and and an HE 1995 6.0. We all know its flaws and recognize it capabilities and appreciate its complexity...no engine is perfect. My point is Jagzilla significantly modified his car as he feels is appropriate for his sporting needs. Who promoted him or anyone else here to Judge and Jury on these forums as to what modification are ok or not ok. This is not the JHT forums so purity doesn't matter here. The OP asked about Andrew at Jaguar specialties, I answered on point as I saw fit... Others chimed in with unsolicited criticism of the OP engine choice. Why do other feels its necessary to berate him anyone else about modifications that meet their needs and goals. You cant expect no push back when you're suggesting, my mods are ok and yours are not. Few people if any remove a perfectly good engine and replace it... having conversion as an options prevents these cars from getting crushed and that is a good thing no matter where you stand. Perhaps it is time for conversion section because these differences seem irreconcilable.

 

I have the same experience on other Forums too. Over at hotrodders.com every problem is solved with bigger carb and more cam, and there are about 3 people who dole out technically accurate advice and about 5 who spew constant nonsense.

 

I can't believe I'm getting sucked back into this pointless conversation, but, I will participate in order to address this one issue only:
I am in no way judge, nor jury concerning anything. Never claimed to be. Don't want to be.
Unsolicited criticism? Read the OP's own words:
I think he solicited everyone's opinion with that question, right after he suggested that Jags are not reliable.

 

WOW.

HONESTLY, guys, I DID NOT MEAN TO START THIS. I apologize if I bunched any panties in here, and I REALLY WAS naive and ignorant enuf to think that GM swaps were more common and accepted universally. I am not trying to make a 1/4 mile drag car out of such a GORGEOUS, sophisticated, adult, refined machine as the XJS.

TRUTH BE TOLD? I've ALWAYS had a thing for putting motors where the engineers had not initially intended. This will be my FOURTH successful engine swap when finished. I've done a turbo rotary in both a Datsun Roadster and a 510, and a Buick GN in a TR7 Convertible (SOLD THE TR7 BEFORE I KILLED MYSELF. BIG BRAKES, IMSA SUSPENSION AND ALL, IT WAS A SQUIRRELLY BEAST). I could post pictures of the work I had done by MASTER FABRICATORS and electricians, but I kinda think I would be opening a can of worms in what has proven to be such a productive, harmonious discussion, brought about by a STRANGER amongst friends, and WHO WANTS THAT, RIGHT?

It may be where I LIVE. Here in LA, motor swaps PERIOD are BIG, and Chevy swapped Jags are HYOOJ. There are pages and pages of folks with rollover Camaro drivetrains stuck in gorgeous Jags all over the web, and 75% of them seem to be within 75 miles of my home.

AGAIN, I apologize for denting your sensibilities, and respect your choices whether you do mine or not. TO ME? Clean work is CLEAN WORK, to be respected for its own sake, regardless to whether you would DO it or not to YOUR CAR.

1. I LOVE the XJS. ALWAYS wanted one. AND an xj6C. AND an xj6. 78, Maroon and tan

2. I PERSONALLY have heard HORROR stories about being stranded and paying through the nose to own one.

3. NEVER heard those stories from the SWAP crowd.

4. I am a SWAP HEAD. The forethought, engineering and mechanical prowess and creativity to pull one off SUPERBLY, along with the of turning the key on a dependable motor that didn't start out there has thrilled me to NO END since the day I rode in one.

5. If ALL JAG IS YOUR THING? GREAT. Live long and prosper. I hope to be here on this forum LONG after today, and will progress happily down my GM road without EVER posting progress reports or fotos of the work so as not to make you wretch, and I won't type a word OF it after the end of this sentence. (WELL… MAYBE ONE MORE THING- If I WAS MAKING A 1/4 mile JAG??? TWIN TURBO LT1)

 

The OP made those comment AFTER a convert was refered to as "butchered" and "dirty" in the third post on the topic. As I see it he was responding as he should have... and in a friendly, respectful and reasoned way.



But this comment is ridiculous too because it is suggesting a problematic Ford V8 is acceptable. What gives you the authority to decide what is acceptable or not?

The Purist have won at least in the context of this forum, you've sucesfully deterred the OP from participating in these forums but not deterred his plan to proceed with a swap. He got the message his type are not welcome here. Too bad I would have loved to see it.

 

NO SWEAT, ICS!

I will keep YOU posted, I just am too old and too confident to hafta try and justify how I spend MY money on MY car to ANYONE…

Other than MY WIFE.

I will still need other advice and have comments on other threads, but all the BICKERING?

I own DO DAT.

I'm a GROWN *** MAN.

 

My current XJS was purchased for $3800 about 6 years ago. With it's 2:88 gear final drive, growler intakes, shift kitted GM400, no cats + missing mid mufflers it's got plenty of OMPFH off the line and more then enough from 90 to 140 MPH. I get about 16 in town and 23 on the highway and it's never left me stranded plus when I go to cars and coffee it's a hoot to see how many come over to see the "V-12 for the masses. I wanted an XJS for reasons of I loved it AND a big part of it was the V-12". Honestly IMHO the only thing seriously holding it back from straight line, standing start performance is the 2:88 rear set and its weight but both of those are curable if one wants or just put in a 5 speed and watch the whole thing change under your feet. Sorry I've been pretty silent on this one as I got chastised before for being vocal on the "Lump" subject....just not for me. V-12 Jaguars are not that hard to work on or tune or maintain...if anything they are marvelous power plants with a few misguided drawbacks which are curable. "Leapers" anyone?

 

We were due for a V8 dust up anyway. Now we're done for a few months.



Don't worry about it. Not the first time this has happened and I'm sure it won't be the last . This argument has been raging for many years






I wouldn't mind seeing the pics.




I like and respect clean work, too. And *some* of the objections about lumped Jags come from the fact that there are some real hatchet jobs out there. Almost criminal.





Like a lot of horror stories there is some basis in truth. Jags are not always the easiest car to own; they're not for everybody. And nobody expects them to be cheap to own....although if you take the time to learn the tricks they can actually be surprisingly affordable, barring a major engine failure. For most of us that's part of the fun. There's a lot of satisfaction to be gained from learning how to service and maintain a car (or engine) that most people run away from.

Also like a lot of horror stories there's a tendency for....um....'flourish and embellishment' about how bad Jags are. That's what keeps them so affordable to buy. I have no complaint in that regard.

I find that in most cases the harshest criticisms come from those who have never owned one. Sorta like having a somebody who has never had children tell you the best way to raise your own. I can criticize my kids. You can't




Stick around a few years! Or check out the 15-17 years of postings of the Jag-lovers "lumps" list. Not every V8 conversion story reads like a pleasure cruise

But, yes, lots of happy stories as well. No doubt about it. And, I think, fewer problems since Andrew has become a bigger player in recent years. He has all the details and problems worked out, it seems.





No need to avoid posting reports and fotos and such.

As I said earlier just avoid being too harsh on Jags and you likely won't have any problems.


Cheers
DD

 

I am trying to get my head wrapped around " a Buick GN in a TR7 Convertible ". That must have been one crazy car. I worked for a Buick dealer back when the Grand National was being sold new and got to go out for a few " show and tell " rides. Man could the GN be a scary ride and if you got one that was beefed up it could be down right scary. I think your decision to sell the TR7 before you got hurt was a wise one. I have often wondered what it would be like to drive a modified MG or Tiger with a beefed up 302 V/8. I have to think it would be as scary as a TR7 with a GN turbo but it would be fun to find out.

I would love to see the face of the guy in a 80's Mustang or Camaro having a TR7 or MG leaving their car in the dust. For that matter I would also love to see the guy's face driving the TR7 or V/8 MG when he is trying to control that beast-LOL.

 

I'm not anti swap iv done many motor swaps before, but i don't think i would pick a jag to motor swap. to me what makes a xjs enjoyable to drive is the ride the smoothness the quietness combined with decent road holding and weight balance. i would be afraid that a motor swap would upset a few of them points. it probably can be done to retain most of them points. but it would take a ton of planning and detail to try to re-create what is already there with another power plant.

it would be nice if my jag had a little better hole shot but its not bad. and really the jag really comes to life past most posted speed limits. i think i would consider a re-gear before a re-power.

iv got a project sitting on the back burner a 89 Toyota pickup with a lot of sentimental value that also has fist size hole in the block that i want to re-power if i can ever make up my mind what i want to put in it.

if i had a unlimited budget and lots of time. id take a Geo metro put a big hp v8 in it rear wheel drive quiet exhaust and try to keep non stock outward appearance limited to just some tires that can hook up with that kinda power.

 

Okay, I wanted to leave this thread but I'm not leaving that one. The AJV8 is a JAGUAR engine placed on the top 10 list when it came out. A simplified version was sent here to be used in some fords/lincolns.

I didn't "decide it was acceptable" I merely suggested if the root of the OPs issue is with the V12 then why not use a AJ6 or AJV8? What gives you the authority to deem the AJv8 unnacceptable and accuse it of being problematic and designed by a different company?

 

I've been speaking from my experience of 100% of V8 swaps I have ever seen also being the biggest piece of **** of an XJS I have ever seen. EVERYTHING on the car is somehow ruined in an unimaginable way and it is always on 350 swaps. Weird giant wheels with the wrong offset, electrical nightmare. horrible seat covers and steering wheel wraps....even the fact that you would put a giant pie pan air cleaner on it with cheap autozone chrome dusted in rust....every V8 swap I have ever seen meant the death of the car.

Obviously this isn't always the case, but in my experience represents the vast majority of v8 swaps. I have seen a 2j swap in asia that was VERY CLEAN.

I still also think it is neater to think "what would have the engineers wanted" and if I wanted more power, put a modern drivetrain from the same manufacturer in the car.

I was never vehemently opposed to the OP engine swapping his car, he can do whatever he wants. I was just voicing my distate and suggesting alternative options. ICS wanted to join the fray and start talking !@# about the XJS on an XJS forum and I think that caused some problems