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  #1  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:10 AM
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Default 2007 XKR roll bar

Hi All,

I did a few searches and couldn't find anything on this - sorry if I missed it.

I want to put my car (2007 XKR Convertible) and the track for "lap days." Just so it can stretch it's legs a bit. This track has some nice long straits that it should be able to get to 135-145 range safely.

Anyway, track policy (Insurance issue) The pop up roll over protection needs to be directly behind the driver seat. Having the little non-useable seat in the back means I don't qualify and can't go on the track. This is sad for me :-( They did say I could install a roll bar and they would let me out on the track.

- Has anyone ever done this?
- I think if the back seat was removed one could be manufactured for it?
- Mounting points may be an issue (aluminum etc.?).
- The guy gave me the impression it was a visual thing, not necessarily a functional thing, but if I am going to go through the trouble.....
- the other thing is I want to be able to easily remove it and put the seats back. I may only track it 2 times per year.

Any thoughts?
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Old 09-07-2011, 09:39 AM
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Default No Luck

Well - thanks for looking at this post I guess I am the only one who has thought about this option? I will let the forum know what I discover.

Cheers
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  #3  
Old 09-08-2011, 07:32 PM
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I've found different track event organizers have different requirements, and seen convertibles on a number of different tracks without roll bars. Contact BMW-CCA to see what their policy is as they allow all marques into their club, and typically do events at many different tracks.

Bruce
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:19 PM
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Hey Bruce,

I did some checking and our local BMW club has track events, but they do not allow convertibles of any kind with or without roll bars. Good thought though. Where there is a will there is a way. It will either take time or money lol.

Thanks again

ron
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:55 PM
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Hmmmm....ok, try contacting your local Porsche chapter of PCA because a number of them allow BMW-CCA members to join in their club Driver Eds. They do that to help boost revenues to cover events costs when their own member's attendance is a bit low. You couldn't join PCA unless you own one, but BMW will allow you as mentioned before.

Performance shops, independant driving schools, and even race teams will book the track and allow lappers to defray costs. Contact your local track's management to get a schedule of the event organizers who have booked the track, and then contact them directly. For example, Kensei Racing is a local team that runs in the ALMS, or a support series I believe. They also own a local performance/tuning shop. They book Mosport for 6 days each summer where they alternate on track two groups based on experience and speed. Customers and general public are welcome, and there are always convertibles on track.

There's even a local dentist who was an instructor with PCA for years that rents the track and charges everyone a fee to run. He even has a local professional racer there for training noobies early am before the regulars arrive.

I hope that helps.

Bruce
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:25 AM
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Check out this Corvette Forum vendor, maybe they can help. But I suspect the aluminum frame on the newer XK will be the limfac.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...-roll-bar.html

I bought a Z06 for track days, and the XK is my wifes DD cruiser.
Click the image to open in full size.

BTW this is what can happen at ANY HSDE
Click the image to open in full size.

Good luck

Tom
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:32 PM
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As a long time racer and one who crashed two street cars at track events (a Lamborghini and a 3rd gen twin turbo Mazda) I would recommend against tracking your Jag. Several reasons:

1) Statistically you have a high chance of crashing it if you stay with it for a while.
2) Look at the front end of race cars. The pain is totally blasted from rock chips thrown up by cars right in front of you.
3) Resale value of your car will fall steeply if the potential owner notices any signs of racing. Like mounting points for a roll bar.
4) Street cars really do not behave all that well on the track. Those pesky little Mazda Miatas and 1st gen RX-7s with their stock engines and race tuned suspensions and tires will blow the doors off those 400 HP street suspensioned sports cars.

Recommendations; if you really want to track, you can buy a cheap race car for under 10K and go much faster than in your expensive street cars. If you go to $20K, for that you can buy some serious SCCA, GT-class cars with pretty respectable lap times; Like easily 20-25 seconds per lap faster than an XKR on a typical track, such as Laguna Seca. For $35K you can buy some very mean ex-pro race cars.

Lastly: I had eye witnessed a convertible AC Cobra replica spinning sideways at Thunderhill raceway's steep downhill Eagle Nest turn, the downhill tires grabbing, sending the car into an "in air" set of barrel rolls, landing upside down. It did not have a roll bar and the results were not something that I want to see again. If I recall, that incident ended the functioning of that particular track club.

The Jag is NOT a track car by any measure and it is too nice a car to mess it up on the track.

Albert
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:10 PM
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Sound advice - I didn't want to "race it" only wanted to play a bit in a safe and legal environment. Nothing to extreme as I like the way my jag looks without any wall marks. The thought was to get her up to the 150 mark on a long straight just to say I can. I live in an area that with the help of a few friends will be able to achieve this without the drama of the track, but there is always the chance of something going wrong...... Oh well enough of this - moving on.

Thanks again
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axr6 View Post
As a long time racer and one who crashed two street cars at track events (a Lamborghini and a 3rd gen twin turbo Mazda) I would recommend against tracking your Jag. Several reasons:

1) Statistically you have a high chance of crashing it if you stay with it for a while.
2) Look at the front end of race cars. The pain is totally blasted from rock chips thrown up by cars right in front of you.
3) Resale value of your car will fall steeply if the potential owner notices any signs of racing. Like mounting points for a roll bar.
4) Street cars really do not behave all that well on the track. Those pesky little Mazda Miatas and 1st gen RX-7s with their stock engines and race tuned suspensions and tires will blow the doors off those 400 HP street suspensioned sports cars.

Recommendations; if you really want to track, you can buy a cheap race car for under 10K and go much faster than in your expensive street cars. If you go to $20K, for that you can buy some serious SCCA, GT-class cars with pretty respectable lap times; Like easily 20-25 seconds per lap faster than an XKR on a typical track, such as Laguna Seca. For $35K you can buy some very mean ex-pro race cars.

Lastly: I had eye witnessed a convertible AC Cobra replica spinning sideways at Thunderhill raceway's steep downhill Eagle Nest turn, the downhill tires grabbing, sending the car into an "in air" set of barrel rolls, landing upside down. It did not have a roll bar and the results were not something that I want to see again. If I recall, that incident ended the functioning of that particular track club.

The Jag is NOT a track car by any measure and it is too nice a car to mess it up on the track.

Albert
Sage advice from someone that's "been there and done that". I have recently decided to end my weekend track events after a scare during my last HDSE.

I'm content to know I have a very fast and powerful car, can drive it efficiently (I subscribe to the Jackie Stewart style of driving) and will not be goaded into any street displays.

My advice is to just enjoy your Jag for what it is and be happy.

Tom

BTW:My 505HP 3100 pound Z06 only reached 150 going down the longest "straight in NA" at Road America. I doubt your Jag would come close to that so no sense in trying.

Last edited by TomServo; 09-15-2011 at 07:33 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-16-2011, 08:47 AM
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Hey come on guys, Ron indicated he wanted to maybe go out a couple of times per year to let him stretch his pride and joys legs a bit in a legal manner....not go full-bore into weekly track lapping where he's pushing it every lap to shave off a fraction of a second. It's good advice to point out the fact that ugly stuff can happen on track, and certainly has even to those who aren't really pushing it, but I've seen an awful lot of uber expensive street cars out there safely enjoying some of the performance of their high performance cars in a "school" environment. It's not surprising since they did choose to buy a high performance car, and they're responsible enough not to probe that aspect on public roads. Front mask materials are available for temporary and permanent use to avoid road abrasion from track and everyday use.

Once you recognize and accept there is always going to be an element of risk when you're on the track (and on the street for that matter with the inexperienced, lunatics and the constantly distracted), then you can decide if you want to do it. I've tracked a pristine Supra TT about 15 days per year for many years and have also recently decided to stop, but that has dramatically enhanced my ownership experience in many ways. Fond glances, occasional use, and constant detailing just weren't enough...I'll see if it can be again. 400+ whp may prove to be too much not to let off the chain from time to time...and my neighbors may not apprecaiate me doing "cool down" laps around the block before parking it in the driveway!

Bruce
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Old 09-17-2011, 10:42 AM
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Thanks Bruce,

I used to track my 1972 Pantera from time to time at club events. It was just a joy to get her up to 150 or so on the Pocono Race track in PA. My mom actually got me started when she bought her 1973 Pantera new off the show room floor. She was a pro photographer back in the days when men thought women couldn't drive. One of the Indy car guys worked on her engine a bit - a lot and she fast lapped at 190+ with the track timer. They didn't say much to her after that, but she was then accepted into their little club. A J Foyt, Al Unser, Rick Mears etc then let her in to take pictures that few have gotten. I was working turn one at Indy at 14 (not legal mind you) as a runner for AP. I guess I share this because I had my shot at legitimate racing school etc as some people took me under their wing, but I declined. To me, since we don't have an autobahn, it is just fun to drive as a car was designed to be driven. I don't ever push to it's max because I honestly can afford to repair it if I went into a wall. But a little drifting around the corner is always exciting.

Again thanks Bruce. I feel you heard me in my initial request for info. My pride, posturing , and need for competitive speed took a back seat when I......you ready for this.... Became a pastor :-)

Have a great day guys and thanks for all the advice! No roll bar will be installed and I will enjoy the car as I can, when I can.

r
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:19 AM
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That's a very interesting background to be sure. Pretty impressed with your mother, especially given the time ...and both of you having Panteras is amazing.

I knew pastors could be a wild bunch when I was at a HPDE with PCA New Jersey chapter at Mosport a few years ago. There was a few of the really big rigs parked in the paddock, and one of the biggest had 3 GT3 dedicated track cars beautifully arranged inside. A friend spoke with one of the drivers who explained he and his two good friends were all pastors, they really enjoyed tracking...and the faster they drove the closer they felt to god! I could relate to that, having experienced the odd "big moment" on track myself that brought me closer to god as well!

One of the big ones, was on the infamous T2 at Mosport. It's a blind downhill off camber dual apex widow maker that still makes me pucker after running it hundreds of times. The turn-in point is just before the crest of the hill where you can't quite see how the track falls off, but you turn-in because you know its coming. The car ahead of me had started spraying oil or coolant on the track just as I started to turn in and I could feel the loss of grip, and confirmed it with a quick brush on the brake. Rather than trying to take the line through the corner and surely spin and likely hit the wall I decided to keep it straight and hopefully drive across the slick to the outside of the corner where I'd hopefully find grip before going agricultural and into the wall. I can still see it in slow motion, getting closer and closer to that edge, gently probing the brake, and at the last possible moment I started feeding in some steering. I could feel the tenuous grip returning through the wheel as the tires cleaned off...and the car started turning in...with probably no more than a couple of inches to spare! That would be one of my "closer" moments on track.

Well enjoy that beautiful car, Ron...and I hope you find the opportunity to get it out there at some point!

Bruce
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Old 09-18-2011, 05:50 PM
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Default Hard to imagine jolly-good-ole Pastors racing :-)

One psychological study concluded that top race drivers made the average NFL linebackers look like innocent lambs when it came to aggressiveness. Funny to imagine 3 pastors living out their aggressive fantasies :-)

Yes, blown engines present big risks for anyone on the track. If you drive at the limit going into a corner and someone blows an engine in front of you, you're basically history, I don't care how great of a driver you are. Unfortunately, blown engines occur quite often, given how hard we run the engines, driver mistakes in missing shifts, over-revving engines, etc.

I remember competing in the SCCA West Coast Invitational Championship, oh, it was sometime between 1999 and 2002. I was the 3-times repeat CA GT-3 Champion and my chief competition was the Champion from the State of Oregon. I ran my car super hard in qualifying, wanting badly to be on the pole for the race start. My crew chief just radioed me that I turned the fastest qualifying lap so, instructed me to back off. I just crossed the start/finish line at the Thunderhill track with my engine turning nearly 10,000 RPMs just before braking hard for Turn 1.

That's when the engine blew BIG TIME. The whole front of the engine disintegrated tearing the chassis, bodywork with it, spewing oil all over and setting the car on fire. I braked as hard as I could, pulled off the course blindly as my car was completely filled with smoke, dove out the window and ran for my life. Being so close to the paddock they put the fire out quickly. The front of the car looked like a total loss. Tires were burned to the ground, much else, electricals, fuel/oil lines, radiators were melted or simply ruined by the exploding engine parts.

I told my crew that we were packing up and going home. They refused to give up. We all (and some crews from other teams) worked through a very stormy night under our small tent and had the new engine, new bodyparts, radiator, oil coolers etc in place, chassis welded back to strength, and started the engine 15 minutes before the 5 minute race start warning.

The race itself was anti-climatic. I led all laps from the pole position, chased closely by the Oregon Champ until about two thirds into the race he spun off the track. After that, having a huge lead on the rest of the field, I took the engine down to 7500 RPM shifts, babying it to the finish. My only West Coast Championship win, and one that we will never forget.

I also burned the same race car at Laguna Seca when the back end of the car, including the fuel cell burned to the ground in a spectacular fire. We fixed that too by the next day and won that race, as well. That is what's nice about purpose-built race cars; You can fix pretty hopeless-looking damages quickly that you could not even dream about fixing on a road car. It helped again that the SCCA racing fraternity was like a big family; they fight you to death on the track but, when you need help you don't ever have to ask for it; they came and offer it on their own.

Pleasant memories...

Edit: Question: How could 3 pastors be able to afford 3 GT-3 spec Porsches and the rest of expenses?

Albert

Last edited by axr6; 09-18-2011 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:20 AM
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It sounds like you've had some close calls...I think we need a motorsports forum so we can share our interesting experiences and seek and share knowledge.

I've often wondered how other have funded their passsions. I subscribe to the "look after your pennies and the dollars will look after themselves" approach and it's been working out pretty well!

Bruce
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:06 PM
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xkr ron - I too have played with the same idea on the roll bar with my 2002 XKR. The germination occurred on a recent Saturday at Laguna Seca for the Monterey Historics a few weeks back. Some track day group was there and mentioned that just recently, the roll bar was required for any convertible. I don't think that you would have heard even one discouraging word on this subject at that event, and of course this year Jaguars were all over the place, being featured. An XKE race, later a Ferrari GTO race, if these guys were sweating the wear and tear of a few hot laps on their multi-million dollar machines, I couldn't see it. Go For It.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:06 PM
 
 
 
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