Mikey, included with all new Jaguar vehicles, including your S type, contained Drivers Handbook, Driver's Handbook Supplement, Passport to Service, Audio System Handbook, 2003MY Wheel/Tyre Supplement, Safety Advice handout, Continental's Adjustment Policy for tires, S Type Quick Guide, and Radio Security Code (if outside of US)

You will find I quoted exactly in my prior post from the Passport to Service manual from your S-Type. Go do your own homework.

 

I did. Thanks. As previously pointed out there is contradiction amongst the various documents about the definition of severe service conditions. This prompted me to contact Jag Canada for clarification. Their conclusions (which includes them having put their money where their mouth is), are as stated above. Not severe service.

What I also found was the oil specifications for S-types in the North American market (like mine). The owner's manual and vehicle specs 09/2003 are in agreement: "API SL and ILSAC GF–3"

Castrol GTX meets those specs.

 

I had all 4 VVT units replaced under warranty for a "Ticking Noise" recently...they replaced my timing chain AND timing chain tensioners as well.... your thinking this is oil related to some degree box?


The car at 28,000 miles on it... and NOT abused... all oil changes by the books.

 

It would be API SL for about the first 1000 miles, then when TBN fell to 5, it would be API SF, and another couple thousand miles, when it fell to 3~4 it would be API SD, and by 6000 miles, when the TBN falls below 3, it would be API SA. You can take Castrol's word on it, or you can send samples to Blackstone. Either way, I don't care.

 

Jaguar hasn't manufactured an engine of its own design in one of its own plants since previous owner Ford Motor Co. closed the old Radford plant in Coventry, England, in 1997. What you are working with is a Ford design. Ford, as well as many of the big automakers are experiencing issues with top end problems with extended drain intervals, and we are seeing them going back to a more rational drain interval of between 5000 and 7500 miles. With today's modern engine designs, tighter specs, and lighter weight parts and accessories, internal engine components are much more demanding of an oil.

Jaguar's exclusive recommendation for Castrol's FST based oils with Ti is an attempt to reduce friction in the upper end, and I have always used a Group V ester based additive (BG's MOA) to do much the same. I know that only Kendall GT1 w/Ti (Phillips Oil Co.) is the only other brand using it in their oil. Afton is one of the largest providers to major oil companies for additives used in the oil market today, and produce the patented Ti product used by BP/Castrol and Phillips/Kendall. Engine teardown @ 100k miles in fleet service, in side by side comparison, they are finding a reduction in upper end wear of up to 63% when compared to conventional stocks.

http://www.aftonchemical.com/Solutio...Additives.aspx

So to answer your question, the automakers are thinking so, and it stands to simple reason. I never run an oil, and I use high end full synthetics, much more the 5000 to 6000 miles myself.

 

So you're professing it is your advice to change 5000-6000 miles for all X150's correct? Not at 6 mo's intervals but under normal usage of course? 4.2 NA/SC and 5.0NA/SC? And I'm aware of esther oils so which are you believing to meet the required specs and be somewhat readily available then? Are you saying that Castrol Edge 5X30 does not meet those specs?

 

I said, "I never run an oil, and I use high end full synthetics, much more the 5000 to 6000 miles myself." And there are multiple reasons why. Degradation of viscosity modifiers, (shear) high temps, metro stop and go traffic, TBN loss...

As far as BG's MOA is concerned, BG has been around since the 70's, and their ester based MOA is used by dealerships and independent shops nationwide. If you have ever done any research on this product, you would know why. It's the only additive that I would recommend with high confidence. I've used it since the early 80's. Now, Jaguar doesn't endorse any kind of oil additives, since there are so many on the market, and they have no control over their usage. However, the additives in Castrol's FST Ti product performs in many ways very much like the MOA product in testing, but it takes time for the additive to exhibit this quality (the bonding process) MOA is instant, since it doesn't rely on bonding to metal, it's a Group V ester. However, drain the oil and you drain the ester. With the Ti additive, it remains, as far as it has bonded to the metal parts, much like the Mo is bonded to piston skirts.

Standard Castrol EDGE, unless it specifically states it's FST does not contain the patented Ti additive. The stock sold under the Professional series by Jaguar\Land Rover dealers does have the Afton Ti additive. It's the Ti additive, that creates a titanium film over metal parts. If you look at the product's PDS that contain this additive, you will see Ti levels >600ppm rather than the <20ppm or so in those without this additive. This additive is what Jaguar is recommending, even to the point of dying the stock to make it easy to tell if the customer is using this product. Again, the only other major brand using this patented Afton additive, is Kendall GT1 w/Titanium. (this is a hint for those who don't want to use an ester additive, and wish to take advantage of the exact additive in Castrol, and don't want to use Castrol w/FST or the dealer stock)

 

Thank you for your input Box

 

You're certainly welcome. I hope it helps in your ownership.

I thought I would do a little show and tell to show why dealers and independent shops, as well as I always use BG's MOA.

 

Box
"It would be API SL for about the first 1000 miles, then when TBN fell to 5, it would be API SF, and another couple thousand miles, when it fell to 3~4 it would be API SD, and by 6000 miles, when the TBN falls below 3, it would be API SA"

I'm not sure why you seem quote TBN as if it represents API service classifications, it doesn't.
TBN or Total Base Number is the oils ability to neutralize acids in the oil, and has historically been used to match high sulfur levels in fuel. TBN's in excess of 10 or 12 were common when sulfur levels in fuel were as high as 3000ppm. Since the average gallon of gas in the U.S. now contains about 30ppm sulfur, high TBN's are not needed nor wanted. API issue new classifications by letter each time an engine oil goes an upgrade. TBN numbers in modern gasoline oils have dropped to 3-4 simply because there is no longer any need for the oil to neutralize high levels of acid.

Your faith in magic oil additives such as BG MOS is equally amusing. Another mechanic in a bottle? Engine life has been signifactly extended from 60,000-80,000 miles to often to well over 200,000 miles by a combination of good design, computer controlled fuel injection, and modern engine oils, not by aftermarket elixirs sold by clever marketing to the uninformed.
Regards,

 

While I appreciate the input, TBN is part of the additive package that include not only alkalinity, but also dispersants, and is one of the criteria used in determining an oil's detergent quantity and quality. Sorry, that's just the way it is. You might want to actually read up on the subject. I left links. You claim, "TBN numbers in modern gasoline oils have dropped to 3-4 simply because there is no longer any need for the oil to neutralize high levels of acid." is absurd on it's face, in fact, initial TBN indexes has been increasing with API specs, not decreasing. (more detergents) Any TBN less than 3~4 has lost it's ability to stop the formations of sulfuric acid in the oil and is carried throughout the engine, (they call that all used up) and is recommended for immediate change.

Concerning MOA, the use of ester based Group V lubricants is well known in the industry, it isn't magic, it's called chemistry. The proof is where the rubber meets the road. How long will your motor run with no oil, no oil pressure, and left to run for hours?

 

Hi Rob, my sympathies.
They say the best boat captains are the ones standing on shore who have never so much as been on a boat. I too was shocked to return to see the thread had ballooned to the point it was not worth reading. Beyond here the joke would be on us to read a captain's log of someone who had never been to sea.

Their confusion stems from the erroneous belief that a manuf knows everything there is to know in the first couple of years on a engine being on the market. Not true of any product. Including my own. After 5 years on the market they realized they were suggesting the wrong oil viscosity. Namely it wasnt flowing fast enough on dry starts. I was able to SOLVE my chain problem because I discovered this before they have bothered sending me the memo- which they never will.

 

Box....

lets pretend i know NOTHING about oil or its TBN's or anything of that like.. Im just a dumn, penniless idiot....penniless because I spent alot of money on my JAGS!!!

What are you suggesting I do with oil changes and BG's MOA. Also... Jag uses synthetic oil...i think... i use whatever the Jag Dealership puts in it which is jag preferred.... is BG's MOA good with that... Im like Cole Trickle... I just drive the car man... Just Drive

 

Q&C! Which oil are you using now for your XKR and which should I put in my XKR next regarding the timing chain issues?? Thanks Buddy!

 

Loth thank god you are here.

In your case I would not use MOA, as you are still under warranty and as they say Jaguar is most productive when trying to find an excuse to deny a claim. However David may be able to advise if they can detect it in the oil.

What I would do instead, is change the oil 2 times more than needed. Oil can also be used as a cleaner. But I think that both your XKRs are clean. If you simply change oil every 6months you will be doing the same as the MOA (which oil contains). I was able to clean my engine this way and totally get rid of the chain noise.

 

Loth I am still using the 5w-20 because I had a ton of it. But will go to 0W-20 hereto.

I get it from a Castrol Distributor.

Dont make me drive up to Columbus to show you how to do these oil changes on your own.

 

Sounds good.... I change the oil in my Nissan every 4000 miles and it's ester oil. I'm used to oil changes so why not the jag when I'm using it as my daily??? What oil did you switch to and from what?

 

BTW. All the people here for 'Testing Oil' wonder how many have tested their oil to see if it is even the Castrol Slx and not some significantly cheaper alternative.

 

Loth regarding your question about chant and actuators being oil related. Absolutely. The problem is self evident. Remember how it went away as soon as oil pressure went up, i.e. 10 seconds. Need I say more.

You are the one who helped me by sending that recording. Mine sounded identical.

most folks here dont realize I did the 1 year oil changes, and wish there was a way to undo it. There isnt.

 

I'm just taking the simple road here. I bought the car 2 years ago this month. I have put 9000 miles on it . So 4500 miles a year might be my average. I had the dealer do my 1st change after I got the car and it was covered no charge. I drove it all the 1st summer and a few times in the winter . Got the 2nd oil change in April 2015. Drove all summer and some winter and just got the oil changed last month. So I'm going to stick to my old plan of once a year which will be around 5000 miles. I also checked the dealer's oil and unless they are cheating it was in the jag recommended Castrol barrel.