I've read a lot of posts here and either can't find the right info or am not mechanically-inclined enough to figure it out. I don't want to spend a lot to solve the wrong problems.

Background: '00 XKR. I'm the original owner. Had the green spray of death a few years ago and, thanks to Gus and others on this board, was able to give step-by-step instructions on replacing the burst line to my mechanic friend. Top worked fine after that, but over time it became weaker. At the beginning of the summer it needed a little manual help to close. Then, last month it ceased having enough strength to close. I wouldn't mind manually operating the top for a little while, but the quarter windows won't close, so I can't drive on a potentially rainy day.

The fluid level on the pump was a little low so we topped it off but it still would not close. We worked on it a bit and then I had my mechanic call Top Hydraulics for help. The conclusion they reached was that the pump needs to be rebuilt and both the right and left lift rams leaked and need to be rebuilt. Looking at the lift ram wells, they does seem to have been fluid leaks in both.

First question: Does it make sense that both lift rams would have failed at the same time? Could pump problems have made this happen?

I spent some time trying to diagnose what is going on. I've operated the top manually, but it doesn't help. Checked all relevant fuses and switched around the relays. Using the TSB Convertible Top Electrical System - Component Descriptions & Diagnosis and here's where I am:

- If the top is open/down and I try to close it with the switch or with the door key, I get the warning chime and I hear the pump run for 4-5 seconds and then nothing happens. If I try to open it (even though it is open), nothing happens.

- If the top is closed/up (manually closed) and I try to open it with the switch or with the door key, I get the warning chime and I hear the pump run for 4-5 seconds and then nothing happens. If I try to close it (even though it is closed), nothing happens and the side windows will not close.

In neither case do I get a message on the instrument panel about the top. Since I do get the warning chime, it seems to me that the BPM is sending a signal to the SLCM. So...

Second question: Would the quarter windows and latch mechanism stop working if the pump or lift rams were broken?

Last question: If I have to remove the lift rams how do I do it? I can't figure out how to get the top out of the way.

Any help you all can give me would be really appreciated!


-- Matthew

 

Matthew, here is Dc's write up on the hose replacement and it shows all you will need to know about getting the rams out.
HoseReplacementJagXKR2001.doc


Wayne

 

Thanks Wayne! And a big thank you to Dc/Steve for the detailed directions.


Anyone know if the quarter windows and latch mechanism stop working when the pump or lift rams are broken?

 

Or you go my page and read all you want to know about the hose failures the why and how to.

www.jagrepair.com

 

Gus, I have spent a ton of time on your site. It is how we got the original burst hose fixed 4 years ago. I understand why the hoses fail and the how to for fixing them (in fact, I sent you an email on the pressure relief valve kit earlier today!). I'm just not mechanically inclined enough to understand all of it.


I know the lift rams can blow their seals due to too much pressure, but I don't know how to tell if it has happened nor why it would happen to both sides at the same time.


I want to make sure that I'm fixing it properly. I'd hate to send the pump and lifts to be rebuilt and install the PRV kit, only to find that the pump was actually fine and my problem was the Security and Locking Control Module.

 

The rams must be fully extended for the quarter windows to go up. The roof could be running slow because of the rams not being lubricated and you can fix that by spraying them with WD40. That is not a good long fix but it cleans and lubricates. As for the roof operation it could be confused and to fix that you need to open the roof, quarter windows open and the roof latch parked then do a hard reset. Once that is done check that the petcock is closed and the fluid is filled to the top line get in the car with the two other windows open and press the close button and hold it. The latch should open and the roof should come closed to the latch. Note hold the button until it is closed or the motor times out. I should also suggest that you have the engine running when closing.

Check your pm

 

also lubricate all pivot points you can get at for the top. will help it raise and lower with less resistance

 

can also try transmission fluid with seal leak additive to lube the rams. it may swell the seals a little to stop a small leak.

 

Hi Matthew, sorry for the delay. Away on vaca for a week. Many folks on this site say the only long term fix is to have all three rams, two roof, one header latch rebuilt. Replace all Six hoses with updated ones. Just did the job using Top Hydraulics with great results. Sounds to me like you just want the rear windows up. You have electric safety switches in the right rear ram. These control the rear windows,. If the piston is not all the way in the extended position, this switch will be open. No window operation. You may need to grab the top frame near the top pistons on each side and extend the piston to the full out position by hand. You should be doing this procedure in the opposite direction to unlock the frame when operating the top in the down position manually.
I hope I made myself clear and it works for you. Rich

 

Thanks to all. Still working on this - I'd rather do it correctly than do it quickly.
Did the hard reset but no change.


Going to extend the lift rams today to see if the windows work; aside from giving me control over the windows and the ability to go out in bad weather, if it works I'll know that those switches are working.

 

Extending the lift ram by hand did not make the quarter windows operate.

 

Hi B6283, not to be of doubt, however, I found I needed a little pry bar ( used 1" x 3" piece of wood), to push the rear quarter top support upward to the lock position to get my rear windows to work. I found in manual operation, it was easy to unlock the rear top brackets, not so easy to relock. Or, have you found a solution.

 

You are correct, Reb1999, but eventually I got the rams to "click" up to the fully extended position. Gus had also advised me to use a pry bar.

So, I have been working with Gus to diagnose the situation and based on a progression of tests, he advised we try a few things and this was the result:

Did another hard reset with the top up and rams extended. Tried to close, but nothing happened. Then turned the petcock to manual and opened the latch manually. On the instruments it read “Convertible Not Latched”. Turned the petcock back to automatic and pressed open. Made some noise and I gently pushed on the top at the latch. It popped out of the latch and the latch slapped back down into the sill, the top operated all the way to open! I then tried to close it again, but with no success.

Tried the process again with similar result except this time when the latch slammed shut it didn’t go into place enough to turn off the “Convertible Not Latched” message. I touched the latch and the message went away.

I guess that means that the pump and side lift rams are somewhat working. The quarter windows still don’t work and I have to guess that something is wrong with the latch.

Last item to note: I topped off the hydraulic fluid last week, but it is now closer to the lower line on the pump than the upper line. I see no sign of a leak from the latch, but have not taken it apart.

 

Removed the rams and am sending to Top Hydraulics for rebuilding. Sizable wet area below the driver's side ram.

 

Hi Matthew, Your description above how the rams and top frame sort of click is a good description which insures the top is locked in place.
I just completed the the job of replacing all the hoses and rebuild all three rams with Top Hydraulics. Very pleased with the repair as well as the hi quality hoses.
Are you going for the complete package?? Rich

 

Thanks Rich. I'm going at it piecemeal. Going to see if the rebuilt rams fix the problem first. My hoses "look" pretty good (had to replace the one to the latch several years ago), so I'm going to install Gus's pressure reducing valve kit instead. I hope that reducing pressure will not only save the hoses, but increase the life of the rams. I may end up changing my mind and doing the whole thing. I don't know...

 

New rams are great, but that didn't fix the problem. After re-installing the rams, I manually operated the top at least a dozen times and refilled the pump to the top line twice. Asking for the top to close results in no movement at all. Then I retried the process I posted about (post #13). Nothing happened. Then I unlatched the top manually, but left it almost fully closed. When I tried to open it, the hydraulics took over, it “popped” out of the latch and opened properly. I tried to close it again and nothing happened.

So, the side rams work to lower the top, but not to raise it and the top latch doesn’t seem to operate correctly. Switched the relays and glanced at all the electrical connections and all look fine. Any thoughts?

 

Woo Hoo! It's working!

Lubricated the latch, cleaned the contacts, reseated the relays, replaced the fuses (even though they seemed fine), added fluid to a little above the top line… Don’t know what did it, but it is working now. I learned a lot through this process and tackled a problem I never imagined I would handle on my own.

Thanks to all for advice and a special thank you to Gus who spent a lot of time helping me over the phone and by email!

 

Well, it died again the next day. Knowing the problem was not hydraulic, I kept playing with it: doing hard resets, manually operating the latch, removing the header cover and looking dumbly at the latch mechanism... Went back over threads specifically covering the latch switches and re-read the electrical system TSB from Gus's site.

Something I read nagged in the back of my mind so I went out and checked the fuses and.. yup... the 5 amp fuse that I had replaced earlier this week had blown.

Hopefully there is not an underlying problem that is blowing that fuse. I'm updating this thread because I don't want anyone else to waste the kind of time I have on this problem.

 

"Something I read nagged in the back of my mind so I went out and checked the fuses and.. yup... the 5 amp fuse that I had replaced earlier this week had blown."

If you are referring to the fuse that protects the pump, it should be 40 amp, not 5. I know because mine keeps blowing and I haven't figured out why yet.