Well, more bad news. As the tech was replacing the leaking hose, he found the ram was leaking, too. Or I believe he said it's the ram. So closing one leak will add pressure to the other leak. Ack... bottomline, it's another $600 to replace the ram or whatever part that's causing the other leak. I'm guessing duct tape isn't going to work.

 

Hi Gus, you have a great site!

The hydraulic pump behind the CD player, is that the ram the dealer is referring to? I was just looking at it last night while I was back for another reason and the amount of fluid in the container looked fine, definitely within the fill max/min lines.

Thanks!

 

Montauke, one of my rams (the 'piston' that raises and lowers the top) was leaking too when they replaced the lines. My dealer just replaced both, just to be thorough, but fortunately, i had the warranty to cover my cost. sorry my friend

 

I got some clarification from the dealer. It's not the hydraulic pump by the CD changer or the ram, both of those items are fine. It's the hydraulic block that connects the line by the latch that's the cause of the second leak.

And yes, I double-confirmed, it cannot be fixed by the miracle of duct tape unfortunately.... Nuts, my solution to everything isn't going to save me this time :-(

 

I would still try and find a sympathetic customer service rep at the 800 number. This is a very well documented and chronic problem with these cars (when I called the person I spoke with was quite familiar with the problem). Regardless of official policy, there is always some discretionary solution that Customer Service could offer (at least maybe cover a portion of the repair?). The worst they can say is no, at which point you can let loose with how disappointed you are.

Doug

 

Hi Doug, thanks again for the tip. I called the 800 number for Jaguar. Unfortunately, it's a no-go on getting Jaguar to cover any of the repair costs.

 

I am not sure but I think you are referring to the latch actuator for the roof that the hoses connect to. If that is the case I have been told that the latch could clog or fail, replacing it is the right thing to do. I have been trying to get my hands on one to evaluate it and the hose. When I attempted to get a failed one from Jaguar they told me that it was the property of the owner of the car and they could not give it to me. If you can get all the failed parts (Latch, connector and hoses) and send them to me I will pay for the shipping. I am trying to gather all the information I can to help others on my page. I have written the company that designed the entire latch company but have not received a thing from them yet. I hope soon!

 

Hi Gus, sure, I can ask the dealer to hold on the part for me. Apparently, the block (or actuator) is a ~$400 part, with labor, final cost is about $600 to replace. The service department is closed through the weekend, I'll give them a call on Monday.

 

If you can get all the parts that would be great. Send me an e-mail and I will send you my address.

 

Hey Gus,

If you're trying to re-engineer this cob job, what's wrong with a solenoid actuated latch? Unless there is some relevance to roll over standards, I don't see why this mechanism needs hydraulic control. For the sake of analogy, think door lock plate/ actuator motor.

I'm not saying it is an easy redesign, but it won't ever leak.

 

As I opined on another forum, one solution would be to totally eliminate the automatic hydraulically operated latch and, instead, opt for manual latching since it seems like 90% of these hydraulic leaks/failures seems to be at the latch. The allen key works fine but I am sure someone could have easily designed something more aesthetic like some permanent lever in a wood or carbon fiber finish.

Doug

 

Doug,
You are correct! The existing system is a real problem. However, What I need is additional information to better understand the existing system. I e-mailed Power-Packers for additional information on the entire hyd system and I have not received anything yet. I have contacted Jaguar for info on the system but only received bits and pieces. You are correct but how to get both a manual/electrical and hyd system to work together is a task. I hope to have answers when I get all the information together.

 

What I was envisioning was having to top still go up and down hydraulically but at the end, the latch mechanism would be totally manual. This is basically what happened to me when the top was coming up one time and the latch ended up binding on the way up so that it not fully extend to accept the hook on the top. This ended up causing a system fault and I had to manually work the latch to close the top--this was really no big deal. That is when I started thinking that having only the latch mechanism as a manual operation would have been the right way to go, thus eliminating completely the hose that runs from the boot to the latch.

Doug

 

Doug,

Obviously your solution is the best one, but I still wonder whether there is some reason for the oversophistication of this system beyond the consideration of driver convenience. For all the discussion about convertible tops, nobody ever examined the possibilty that the intricate design employed was mandated by other underlying concerns. I never thought of it as an inconvenience to reach up and flip the two top latches closed on a factory XJS convertible. They never leak either.

Gus, it is admirable to redesign windmills instead of fighting them, but that raises a different set of underlying issues. You would have to proof an alternate design and set up production that is fully supported with product liability protection. That's not a significant concern when repairing individual cars, when all you have to do is find a local hydraulic supplier to make you a set of better hoses and you're done.

I dismissed the whole idea of marketing upgraded hoses for those reasons, and they are completely valid when considered against the total number of hose kits that I could actually sell after going through the motions. Then I read about some guy in Hawaii who claims to be an engineer, and futher claimed that he had a handle on all of the pertinent information and was developing his fix for the benefit of the world's convertible owners. From all of my research, this apparently was just another case of somebody quick with ideas and insults who didn't do a thing to help secure a conclusion, or a single latch for that matter. A spiffy T handle does alot better job than that.

 

My guess is that the design team thought it would be totally slick, and perhaps appropriate, for a car of this caliber and price to be totally automatic in terms of convertible top operation and that it would have been sacrilegious and tacky to expect the owner to have to latch the top manually. So the engineering team was too smart by a half and came up with this Rube Goldberg system of high pressure hoses running all over the car with no easy means to repair/replace.

Doug

 

Doug,

I agree completely, but I wonder if there wasn't some stipulation pertaining to either rollover standards, or to safety conerns involving cars being driven without a failsafe system that first insured top latching. Legislative mandates in either or both of those areas might have necessitated Mr. Goldberg's solutions, and I have read that Jaguar is not the only manufacturer who hired his design team for this application. All of this is speculation on my part, and it really isn't significant unless an aftermarket fix was contemplated for mass marketing. Then would be the time to investigate DOT or other relevant standards to make sure that an alternate to the factory latching system doesn't open the exposure to liablity concerns.

 

Just as a reference, the latch you would purchase from the dealer is the complete top plate not just the actuator. It includes the microswitches and wiring as well as all the mechanicals. Surely hydraulic operation was just a convenience but it is rather sophistacted with lock out above 10mph and microswitches signalling top open, latch open, latch closed and top closed. if any of the switches sends the wrong signal top operation is locked out until correct signals are restored. Any attempt to modify the system would have to include the switch signals to continue operation of the main top rams.

 

All of which could be done relatively easily by using a solenoid operated latching mechanism, just like door latch. And your "Surely" is an assumption, there might be design parameters that go beyond simply the question of having to manually flip a latch.

 

The old way might be the best. The old auto convertible tops had a motorized "nut" that accepted a bolt on the top. It just bolted the top closed. A lot easier to replace this mechanism if it failed and a lot less messy!

 

I know I've hijacked this thread which was started almost one year ago; it's good to revisit to have new insight.

Now, I can't recall where I read this, and it could totally be untrue, but is one source for the failing hose and latch components due to holding the "roof" button pressed long after the top mechanism has finished opening or closing at the "beep"? In other words, keeping the button pressed continues the hydraulic operation to function after the top has stopped, causing stress to the hydraulic components.

If this is true, then the convertible function does not cancel on its own at the "beep", i.e., the hydraulic operation is totally manual.

I would think that some sort of fail-safe exists so the top knows whether it's being raised or lowered and ends the operation once the top is fully up or down to CAUSE the "beep". Thus the "beep" is just acting as a reminder, not a command, to lift your finger off the button.

Can anyone confirm? Thanks!