I think with any experiment like this, you should make sure whatever you use does not prevent disconnecting the hose and replacing it in case it does not work.

Jack

 

Absolutely. We don't want to involve the nut that threads onto the female end of the fitting (that is in turn threaded into the body of the latch mechanism).

Another thing is ... need to be sure that whatever epoxy or resin is selected does not attack the material covering the hose. I wonder if anybody has an old hose that failed and was removed from a car?? This could be used for testing. (I'll pay shipping.)

 

Well to give everyone a update on the repair of my car. I recieved the Jaguar repair kit the part code date was 2008.I cut the hoses with the neat tool supplied and installed the new couplers.I marked the hoses a 1/2" back with tape to make sure the coupler was screwed on all the way and to make sure it did not slide back when threading in the coupling body. I leaked checked everything and opeated the top 4 cycles with no leaks.
Although I was succesful with my repair I still would have to agree that the replacement would be the best way to go, so let's see how long this one will last.



2003 XKR blk/blk

 

Jetworks,

Good for you. Hope it holds.

Would you (or anyone else) be able to send me one of the hose sections you removed? I want to test the material for interaction with an epoxy (which I have in mind as a reinforcement of the hose end fitting).

Post or PM please if you can. I'll be glad to pay the shipping.

 

I was hoping to avoid the green shower since I have installed the voltage reduction resistor and previously always ran the top engine off. Unfortunately today my 2003's hose started leaking while lowering the top, so now I get to look forward to hose replacement. At least running the top engine off, I heard a spraying sound and immediately stopped the top, so the shower was minimal.

 

Sigh. I'm sorry to hear this. This whole topic can be pretty friggin' discouraging.

I'm experimenting with some epoxys and some hose samples sent to me by forum members, trying to see if it's possible to form sort of a cocoon to reinforce the hoses at their weakest points. This, of course, even if it works, will be too late to help you.

An inexcusable debacle is what we have here.

 

Were those the original hoses (that presumably had been weakened over the years)?

Doug

 

Sorry to hear that it got you. Never a good time for that to take place. I have instructions on my page if you elect to do the job.

 

Dennis,
Been there done that!

 

Sorry, not sure I follow.
Reinforcing the hoses you mean?
What can you tell us about that?

 

That's an interesting thought, Dennis. I'd never thought about reinforcing the latch connection before it ever starts leaking. I don't think epoxy is going to cut it, though, even if it was reinforced with kevlar or carbon fiber. I think you'd need something more like a clamp made of steel that could be put over the joint and tightened down. I'm not sure how much space there is up there, however. I'm picturing a piece of steel pipe about 2 inches long with an inside diameter that is a few thousandths smaller than the outside diameter of the hose. The pipe is cut in half longitudinally and placed over the hose, and then clamped down in 3 or 4 places with high strength clamps.

 

Dennis, here's what I was thinking of. It's a hydraulic repair clamp. However, rather than waiting until the hose bursts, someone should try to install it BEFORE the hose bursts, assuming there's enough room.

 

This idea reminds me of a similar thread that I saw regarding the oil cooler hoses:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...er-hose-50378/

While not exactly the same as the convertible top hoses, the principal seems the same with the problem occurring on a pressurized hose exactly where the fitting ends. The correction for the oil cooler hose was to revise the metal fitting so it had more of a "skirt" to cover and thus reinforce the hose (look at the pictures in the above thread and it will be obvious).

It looks like the hoses used for the convertible mechanism would have benefited from the same arrangement.

Doug

 

My idea, half-baked as it is, is to apply some sort of reinforcement before the hose ruptures. After a failure, probably no chance of this idea working.

I'm not sure there is room in there for a clamping arrangement ... have been thinking in terms of a paste epoxy, with some sort of "rebar" embedded in it. On paper, PC-7 paste epoxy looks like it might be strong enough to do some good. The reason for the rebar is that the epoxy, if called upon to resist a hose that's trying to expand, will be in compression in one direction (radially), but in tension in the perpendicular direction. The epoxy will not be as strong in tension as in compression, but the rebar could be arranged to help in the direction of tension.

Open questions ... will PC-7 bond to the hose material? Is a bond there even needed? What to use for rebar? ... maybe a coil of safety wire wrapped around the hose or some sort of mesh or something like that.

Anybody happen to have the name and address of the Jaguar guy responsible for this system??

 

 

If you look at the location of the failure it is under (inside) the crimp of the fitting. In order to reinforce that area you need to get to it and that means removing crimp area of the fitting. The hose has 3 layers the hose, a fiber wrap to reinforce and a cover. The clamp is a good idea and I have a design and it was a matter of finding someone to manufacture it but it is designed as a repair not a preventer.

 

My idea is a little different than a pure clamp-type repair. If the epoxy will bond to the metallic surface of the fitting (pretty sure it will), and will also bond to the surface of the hose (not so sure), then it may be possible to create a seal that would hold even if things had gone bad inside the crimp.

I need to test the strength of the bonds that can be made to these materials.

 

Dennis, here's why I have my doubts about the epoxy reinforcement; Even if you embed the epoxy with carbon fiber or steel wire, the reinforcement isn't going to be taking any pressure until the actual hose starts to break. Your epoxy reinforcement is unlikely to be stronger than the hose itself, so once the hose ruptures, all of that pressure is going to be immediately transferred to the epoxy reinforcement. Since the reinforcement isn't as strong as the hose was originally, it will rupture, too, as soon as the newly released pressure exceeds it's ability to withstand the pressure.

This is just my opinion, but to do a reinforcement properly, it has to squeeze down on the joint where the hose and coupling come together. By squeezing down on that connection, the reinforcement is taking the pressure that would normally be applied to the fibers of the hydraulic hose. Since those fibers are no longer under as much tension when pressure is applied to the hose, they should last longer.

I think a design similar to that clamp I posted a picture of up above would work perfectly if only it would fit in the space. I think I'll go open up that space above the windshield this weekend and see if there is any room for a clamp like that.

 

Forget everything I said. I had no idea what I was talking about. I just opened up the piece above the windshield to look at the hydraulic hoses. The hoses are a much smaller diameter than the crimped metal pieces that they are inserted into. For some reason I was assuming the crimp was essentially the same diameter as the hose itself. The repair clamps I was hoping to use simply won't work.

On the bright side, it looks like my hoses have already been replaced once. The hoses themselves look brand new, and I could see tool marks on the nuts that hold them into the actuator. I was also surprised by how small the hoses are. They are about the diameter of a pencil. I was expecting something much fatter. The hoses back at the pump aren't that small, are they? I don't remember them being that small. The crimp itself is about an inch long and it looks like it is eight-sided. I was going to try to take a pic, but the lighting sucks and they are hard to see. There is no fraying on the hoses or any signs they are getting ready to fail. (knock on wood)

 

One of these days you will go to my page and see all you need to see about the hose!