Hi
Well suppose getting the DTC,s is a step in the right direction, tap the code into the forum search box and read.......... all should become as clear as mmisssissipppyyy mud
Best of luck
Bob

 

I borrowed a laser Temp gun from the service dept where I work. It's supposed to be accurate to within 1/2 degree. I drove the car for about 20 min. Stopped and left it running and shot the temps at various locations around the engine. All temps are in degrees Fahrenheit.

1. Top Radiator Hose - 159
2. Bottom Radiator Hose - 136
3. Top of Radiator - 144
4. Middle Front of Radiator - 93
5. Coolant Reservior - 187
6. Intake Manifold - 147
7. Thermostat housing - 159
8. Temp Sensor (exposed brass body) - 176
9. Camshaft (through Oil Fill) - 174

I was surprised at the low temp of the middle of the radiator, and that the highest temp was the coolant reservior. I have no idea if these temps are within range or appropriate for this car. So any comments are welcome.

I shut down the engine and attempted to restart - Failsafe Engine Mode - no start. Additionally, the radiator fans did not start running until I attempted to restart - then they came on, and this doesn't seem right, but I'm no expert.

Can anyone tell me if any of this (or the prior post regarding "Fuel Mix too Lean" OBDII codes on each bank) points towards a particular repair?

Based upon the too lean condition, I'm thinking either a vacuum leak or the MAF. But I'm not really sure about either. I did make arrangements to have the vacuum system smoke tested in the morning, simply because I can get that done right now, and it's cheaper than a new MAF and I don't have to wait for delivery. I'll post the results.

Ideas anyone?

Thank you all for your help.

 

Bob, I'm ashamed to say I don't know it the ECM fan is working or not. If you'll tell me where to look I'll check. (I can tell you where the ecm is on most Fords and even a few BMW's, but not this car. I was surprised to find the battery and a fuse box in the boot.)

And thanks for the tip.

 

Hi, If your cars LHD then its under the bonnet on the passenger side behind the false bulkhead under the removeable plastic cover in a box with "Security" screws on the lid.Transmission control and ECM are both in there. I,ve attached some info.
May also be an idea to check there,s a drain hole at the bottom of the false bulkhead and its clear, I had this "well" fill with water on my first XK because the rubber drain hose that you will see in the corner had come adrift from the spigot .May also be good idea to spray a good quality contact cleaner onthe connectors while the control moduals are out. Obviously battery should be disconnected prior to removal of moduals

 

I agree, that doesn't seem right at all. Is the coolant circulating at all? If you pull the cap off when the car is cool and start the engine can you tell if it is moving? If the coolant is that hot you would think the radiator would be close to that (unless the fan is doing its job). Presonally I don't know what temps things are supposed to be, by someone on here does.

 

I'm taking the car in to the shop this morning. The plan is to do a smoke test on the vacuum system and flush/clean the radiator as the low temp in the center seems to point at obstructed passages. The flow was checked by the mechanic and I was told it was good. But no reason not to check again. And I'll follow your advice and clean the contacts on the ECM. Thanks.

 

I am concerned that the fans didn't come on until I tried to restart the car. After the restart attempt and the "Failsafe Engine Mode" readout - then the fans came on, and stayed on until the temp meter dropped to the mark half way between middle and dead cold (call it the 25% tick mark on the gauge). If the car was hot, why didn't the fans come on prior to the restart attempt?

So that's another thing we'll check today during my "spend all day trying to fix this car" Saturday at the shop. (see prior post).

And I am hoping someone can tell me what's "normal" in the way of temps for this car. But other than the weird readings on the reservior and the middle of the radiator, the temps seem mild. I was expecting higher temps based on the way the car is acting. But again, I'm no expert and need all the help I can get.

Thanks for your help.

 

I think you need to take a breath and mull over everything you've learned so far.
First, I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the infra-red readings you have taken just yet. Infra-red is great if you understand its limitations. If you do not have a thermometer that has an 'emissivity' adjustment, accuracy can be a challenge. Different materials and paint coatings emit infra-red at different rates, and result in temp errors if that is not accounted for. That accounting is either in an emissivity adjustment on the thermometer, or a calculation from a chart.
Second, your main issue is the loss of the engine and all the warnings, especially when hot. I would concentrate on that first, and then worry about the lean codes later.

Through all your postings, the best hint I see yet is the consistent warnings, no start when hot, and lack of ANY recorded faults. The most plausible explanation for that is power loss or interruption. If something can't function, it can't store fault codes. I think temperature is the key. The two most likely causes of mysterious power loss/interruption at temperatures are relays and circuit boards/solder joints etc. My suggestion would be to change out all the relays in the ECM box enclosure, the Ign Positive relay at the left engine compartment fusebox [it's the one closest to the engine], and the Fuel Pump relay in the boot fusebox. Just be sure to use quality relays rated at 40 amps and having a shunt resistor across the coil. Next I would tinker with that fusebox with the Ign Positive relay. With the engine running, wiggle all the relays, jostle it around tap on it and see if you get any response from the engine or instrument message center, any messages show up for instance. Take it loose and tug around on the connectors at the bottom. If you get any action, suspect board connections inside the fusebox. After that I would really scrutinize all the wiring behind the engine and into the ECM enclosure, and every ground you can find, especially in the engine compartment.

Just a few thoughts............hope it helps!

Cheers,

 

I have a pretty good relationship with the shop at this point (having thrown loads of $ at them trying to fix the car). I believe he will not have a problem with me cleaning contacts/wiggling relays, etc. while he's doing the other things we have planned for today.

Thanks for the advice and I'll post the results of todays effort at the shop. (which starts in about 10 min)

 

Just finished the smoke test of the vacuum system. The only places smoke appeared:

1. Around the intake manifold gaskets. Which is probably the reason for the rough idle.

2. At the connection of the PCV hose to the valve cover.

So even though this probably won't fix the problem, it something that needs to be fixed and I'm ordering the parts today.

We also rev'd the engine and you could feel the radiator hose buldge, so it appears the coolant flow is good and the water pump is working ok.

And since all the relays in the drivers side module are the same part number, I pulled every one and then swapped the positions. I haven't driven the car yet, so I'll post the results. But so far, I don't think we've actually found the problem.

 

Could be a bad rely preventing the fan from coming on sooner, or something otherwise electrical. I could tell you that (remember my old minivan) it costs about $90 an hour for electrical trouble shooting. If the fan not coming on is overheating the car, you can crank the heat and roll the windows down, as long as the car is moving at a reasonable speed (50 MPH or more) that should keep sufficient airflow going through the radiator. That would generally keep a car from overheating, but all this will tell you is if the fan is coming on or not while you are driving. You can probably figure that out from letting the car run in the driveway with the hood up for a while. Although, if turning the heat on gets you home without the 2 hr wait, its an option.

 

This is getting exiting now, don,t think I,ll go to bed, it,s 1015 in the evening now in the UK...... want to be the first to know you,ve cracked it. Havn,t been this anxious since the brainless bint I married was in labour
Bob

 

About the time you posted this, I really needed some good humor.

Thanks Bob

 

Well guys, it's not been good. I just keep throwing money at this problem, trying fix after fix, and nothing makes it any better, the problem appears to just be getting worse.

Yesterday, we smoke tested the vacuum system and the only two leaks were at the PCV tube from the left valve cover to the bottom of the throttle body, and the intake manifold gasket. Which is leaking like a sieve. While this needs to be corrected and is no doubt part of the rough idle problem - I'm not at all confident it has anything to do with the "Failsafe" issue.

We also did a cooling system flush with Zerex suitable for aluminum and after a good water flush and bleed, refilled with water and orange coolant. From both the bleed flush (loosening the lower radiator hose so it leaks pretty steady, while putting fresh water in at the same rate in the reservior) it appears the water pump is good, and you could feel the radiator hose bulge when you rev'd the engine.

I also disconnected the battery negative and got into all the fuse/relay boxes and the ECM. Since 90% of all the relays are the same model number, I simply switched all of those from one position to another. Those few that are unique, I gave extra attention and made sure they had clean terminals and were well seated. I also removed every ECM plug, made sure the male pins were well seated into the female connector, put a dab of dielectric grease on the female side and made sure they were well seated.

No change whatsoever in the way the car runs.

It runs great with good throttle response and performance - until it gets to "normal" operating temp - then poor throttle response and a serious lack of acceleration, almost like limp mode, but it doesn't indicate it's in limp mode.

And you shut it down - it goes into failsafe when you attempt to restart and will not go out of failsafe and restart until the engine is just barely warm to the touch.

I'm going to order intake manifold gaskets and a replacement PCV tube, because that needs doing.

But if any of you have any idea what's going on with this car and the failsafe, please share it with me. I'm at my wits end over this.

Thanks for your help thus far.

 

I've been sitting and thinking about this problem. And it came to me that I think I remembered reading in the Jag bulletin about replacing the Throttle Body (back when it was being done for free by the dealers), that part of that fix was to re-flash the ECM.

However, there is no dealer on this island. The closest is in Honolulu and that takes shipping the car 3 days each way and would cost about $600 just to get the car there.

Is anyone aware of a non-dealer method of re-flashing the ECM (provided that code is even available outside the dealer).

Thanks,

 

The S514 Service Action you are recalling was either a re-flash of the ECM OR throttle body replacement. Now, you need to note this down, XK8's with the last six digits of their VIN that falls in the range of 020735-031302 have ECM's that CANNOT be re-flashed. Any attempt to do that will destroy it. That is why some got throttle bodies and some were reprogrammed.

This also applies to XJ8's in the VIN range 819772-853935. They tried to use a cheaper ECM by specifying non-flashable parts from the manufacturer, obviously it bit them in the a**.

Keep that in mind when you consider any such programming.

Cheers,

 

Mr Fart,
Typical, I,d been awake nearly 36 hrs checking for update every 3mins, then lo and behold I fall asleep and you post! This car is obviously female, as my firstborn was and she,s been trouble from day 1.
On a more serious note, cant answer your question on reflashing at the moment but I,m sure there are people in this community who can. What I will do though is take a copy of your posts and give them to one of the developers of the software who worked on this model at Jaguar, he still works there, take my Jags too him just for checkup once a year unless problems, costs me nothing but don,t like to abuse his goodwill, he,s the best mate of a work colleague of mine. Can,t promise a quick reply but will give my work colleague your posts in the morning (UK).
In my job I can communicate with any of those yellow American diesel engines anywhere in the world , if the,ve got two small bit of kit connected, do anything to them regarding fault finding, usually while I,m lying in bed, except start them up (Safety reasons ) Perhaps Jag dealers can do that, I don,t know. Would be useful for folks who live on a desert island like you. Must be tough living there....... still, not far to walk home when it breaks down eh!
Bob

 

!!! hahaha, man that cracked me up.... I'm still laughing, thanks.

 

XJRGuy,

You saved me some time and trouble with that. Because mine is 021129 so it does fall into that category of not being able to reprogram.

Thanks for that tip.

 

Bob,

Yep, this car is certainly a female. You go logic, logic, logic and it goes scatterbrained, scatterbrained, scatterbrained.

And I cannot say how much I appreciate your effort to get your friend the Jag programmer involved. Maybe I'll get lucky and he will know exactly the problem.

And yes, living here is the pits, heh, heh. In all honesty, I was unemployed through all of 2009 and 2010. I secured this job, here in Maui, in January of this year. I daily thank my lucky stars and remind myself that there are people who would consider committing a capital crime to be working - in Maui. But the island is bigger than you think. My commute across the valley to & from work is 14 miles and that's a bit farther than an old fart like me wants to walk.

Thanks for your interest and willingness to help.