Hey everyone, hoping all is well you all.

This time I'm having an issue with my convertible top, maybe I should have purchased a younger Jag, but I just couldn't resist the color combo of this one, Gus you know what I mean, yours is the same.

Anyway my 99 xk8 top simply quit retracting/opening some time last year, but the latch opens and closes perfectly every time, it's just that the top doesn't open/retract completely anymore, the latch releases, then the top just pops up a couple of inches.

Yes I'm just getting around to fixing it, I'm still very hesitant and don't use it much cause I still get major tummy ******* every rare time I consider using the car, even though I have been able to deal with the past issues thanks to everyones gracious and relentless help here etc but I burned my bridges with the local dealership and the one local Jag mech I know of is looney and expensive too. Anyway it has been running somewhat well since I settled the past issues but it still throws me abs light and stabilizer control fail and traction control fail messages together all at once more often than it used to and that I would like so I just let it flash them cause they go away when i restart the motor though sometimes it takes a few restarts, and it doesnt seem to affect anything and OBDII doesn't render any codes, no idea why those messages persist, it seemed like it used to happen after i washed/rinsed the car but lately they just happen whenever.

Anyway so I checked at the convertible top pump for the first time ever cause it always worked fine, and I now noticed that it was possibly low on fluid, level was at the bottom line, maybe slightly lower, so some say thats where it should be with the top up and Gus says he disagrees with that at his website. So I purchased the new and required Pentosin fluid, then I checked which fluid was already present in the pump and it was green, so I refilled the pump to the top line, then closed it up.

When I then tried to open the top, same thing happened again, the latch opens but the top doesn't retract, and if I persist then it cycles and closes the latch even though I kept the rocker switch in the open the top position, so I paused then pressed the rocker switch to the close position to lower the top the couple of inches to close the latch again.

So I went to the pump and opened the pressure release valve to release the pressure and closed it back up then tried again, same result and the fluid level doesn't change so I'm assuming its not sending any to anywhere maybe because either none was missing in the system and only the level was low even though I didn't notice any leaks anywhere in the car or on the ground around and under the car.

What am I doing wrong? The level is now where it should be but though the latch opens and closes as it should, the top doesn't retract and the level isn't changing from replacing any initially suspected missing in the lines/system.

Thanks a lot, Sid

 

I see that toy filled the tank to the top line and that is a good thing.

The first thing I would do is to open the petcock and open the roof manually once the roof is open then park the latch and close the petcock then do a hard reset on the car. Once that is done start the car and press and hold the close button and see if the latch opens and the roof goes to the closed position.

If this does not work then you need to check the plugs to the latch & lift control valve located on the top of the pump housing. I would use extreme caution in messing with them because they are fragile and can be broken and you will hate me and then yourself if that happens. Both the latch & lift control valves are controlled by the security module but all the switches in the header and rams must be working properly.

The open process is for the latch valve to open and the pump to run once the latch is open and all the switches are satisfied in the header the security module will close the latch valve then open the lift valve to operate the roof rams once that the roof is up the switches in the rams will tell the security to switch over to the latch valve and that will close the latch once that is done the windows will go up.

See if this clears the problem first.

 

Hello friend, hoping all is well with you, and thanks a lot for your response.

I just want to confirm that when I push the rocker switch to open the the top, the latch does open, and the top pops up a couple of inches and the pump does run, but the top then doesn't retract.

The windows also do go down and back up in accordance with the rocker switch up and down respectively.

Thank you
Sid

 

Gus, I found the following at your website;

5. When ‘Convertible top closed switch’ switches to ‘open circuit’ the SLCM will switch off relay ‘Top up relay’ and switch on relay ‘Top down relay’. This will change the hydraulic pump from push to pull mode to start the opening of the convertible top. When the convertible top leaves the latch claw ‘Convertible top ready-to-latch switch’ and ‘Convertible top raised switch’ will be switched to ‘open circuit’.

6. When the convertible top has fully opened ‘Convertible top down switch’ will switch to ‘closed circuit’. The SLCM will sound the chime alarm, raise any windows which it had lowered except the rear quarter windows, and switch off the ‘latch control valve’ causing the latch mechanism to close.

So it seems like in my situation the ‘Convertible top raised switch’ may not be switching to ‘open circuit’ as its supposed to, it may be stuck in the "closed circuit" from when the top was last raised. This causing the top not to retract.

Also when I keep the rocker switch in the top up position to open the top, if I hold it that way long enough it will eventually on its own push the top down back to the latch and close the latch even though I'm still holding the rocker switch in the top up/to open it position.

Thank you

 

If the roof closes and latches and the windows go up on close but will not open it sounds like the computer is confused. Did you do the hard reset with the roof open and the latch closed?

Gus
www.jagrepair com

 

Hi, not yet, weekend was a little busy, will do it Monday and post an update.

Thank you

 

BTW, I know you said it has to relearn, and this seems to be dependent on the security module, but isn't there a way to reset it by simply pulling a specific convertible top fuse so all the other electric dependent things don't get out of whack etc?

Thanks

 

well today I tried as instructed but was not able to locate the Allen wrench, not sure where its supposed to be, and I suppose the black plastic removable cap a few inches to the left of the passenger visor is where the Allen wrench is supposed to be inserted so I removed the cap and looked in that hole with a light to check the size of the Allen wrench required but I couldn't really tell so I tried different sizes of the ones i have but none caught on, maybe it's a size i don't have, but after looking deeper it seemed like there was a star key possibly required so I tried a T30 or maybe it was a T20 but anyway it felt snug but when I tried to counter clockwise ratchet it I felt there was more resistance than I was comfortable forcing so I didn't and gave up on that idea.

So after contacting Gus to clarify certain things I wasn't sure about, (thanks a lot Gus), I used electric power to lower the back windows and unlock the top and left it popped open, then I went to the trunk and counter clockwise turned the T on the pump to release pressure, no pressure release effect was audible, I didn't hear any air escape as it does/I can hear when I release it with the top closed and locked, anyway so then I tried to push down on the rams from different angles and ways but nothing doing on either side, so I'm probably doing that wrong and they just won't give/unlock, so rather than risking damaging the rams and/or the material of the top I gave up and just put everything back the way it was.

I even tried to do a reset, disconnected the neg terminal for 1/2 hour then tried without opening the top as you instructed, but after the electrical reset, I tried and the top just pops open, nudges like it wants to retract, then upon insistence on holding the open button, it goes forward and closes, same as before.

Thanks again
Sid

 

BTW, when attempting to push down on the rams, with the T fully open at the pump, and top un-latched, I pushed downwards from the outside of the car top while the whole top was still flat but unlatched and a couple of inches from the windshield frame. It seems like the rest of the top laying flat was producing counter weight to me pushing downwards on the ram, making it more difficult and with the potential of causing a tear to the top material. I tried to help it by also lifting a little of the flat laying part as I pushed downwards on the ram but its very difficult. I must be doing something wrong.

Am I supposed to do it from the inside somehow?

Also, I saw the pic at jagrepair.com of where the allen key is supposed to be at the pump but my pump doesn't have that key clip nor the key. There are clips there but the plastic hoses are in them, no allen key. Anyway, I would like to see if I can get the top down first, I may not need the key once the top goes up electrically or I may just find a set of allen keys of which one will surely fit, I see the one in the pic and am pretty sure i have one like that somewhere, don't use them much so don't recall where they are, will search.

Thanks

 

The pump pressure not being noticed when opening the petcock is not uncommon and could be directly related to the pump not working hence no pressure. The reason for opening the roof parking the latch and doing a hard reset in that sequence is to un-confuse the roof the roof electrical system (the security & body control module) that most of the time causes this problem but doing it half way does not fix it.

To get the roof open at the rams you need to push down on the linkage at the top of the rams (both) and they will unlock once that is open you must park the latch and that will require an allen wrench. Once that is done do the hard reset and watch what is taking place. The latch should open then the roof to come up to meet the latch. By the way do not forget to close the petcock before closing.

It may seem difficult to unlock the rams and pressure with both hands will do it. Once you do it all will be good.

Link http://jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepa...oof%20Rams.jpg

 

Let me know if you need the allen arench size. I can pull out my caliper and measure for you.

 

Hi Johnken, thanks for offering, I was wondering what it could be, I tried a few different sizes, not quite allen key but the ones that attach to a ratchet and none of them fit snug or turned, I was even starting to wonder if a previous owner of this car might have stripped the mechanism the allen key goes/fits into because when I look into the hole I don't really see a clear allen key shape.

I found a diagram that states a 2001 XK8 uses an 8mm key, mine is a 1999 MY



Thanks alot
Sid

 

Yesterday I was in the middle of it and wasn't sure about the allen keys I had being appropriate or not and the original wasn't in the car where its supposed to be, at the pump as you explained, so I thought to try to at least get the rams unlocked by first opening the latch electricaly using the rocker switch, and turning the T at the pump. I tried with both hands but it didn't give, it bounced back every time.

I will try again but this time I'm thinking to place a book inside at top the ram to get even pressure on it and to protect the top material from getting damaged from the pressure applied to it and onto the top of the ram when I push downwards from outside the car, feels like the top of the ram can easily perforate the top with the amount of pressure it seems is required to unlock the ram.

I'm also wondering if having opened the top with the switch rather than the allen key had anything to do with the rams not giving/unlocking, even though I unscrewed the T at the pump all the way, and that there wasn't any audible evidence of the pressure having actually being released, as I do hear when I release the pressure when the top is up and locked/latched.

So maybe it just has to firstly be unlatched manually with the key and doing so electrically using the rocker switch is not acceptable to the system and is causing for the pressure to not be released from the rams even when the T is counter clockwise turned. Is that possible?

Thanks a lot
Sid

 

The ram and associated linkage will not damage the roof unless the linkage is broken. If you can open the latch manually then the pressure is off the system.

 

Sid,

My 1998 uses the 8mm too (perfect fit).

It's funny how things work out, I offered just to be nice. When you asked, I went out to the car to measure it and - the allen wrench wasn't there!

I was lucky (and this was really good luck) to find a complete set of allen wrenches exactly where they should be, with each wrench in its proper postition covering a large range of metric and fractional sizes. Turns out that 5/16 inch certainly will work well enough if you or anyone gets in a jam, but 8mm is perfectly snug.

So, thanks for asking, I had no idea mine was lost. I could have had a real headache if I found that allen missing while I was out in the middle of nowhere in the midst of a convertible mixup.

John

 

Glad to hear that John, and thanks for the response Gus.
I'll double check the sizes I tried the other day, hopefully neither were 8mm or 5/16.

I'll try again this weekend and post an update.

Thanks again,
Sid

 

Hi guys, today I finally got my hands on an 8mm hex key and it fits perfectly.

So I electrically lowered the back windows,
released the pressure at the pump,
used the key to unlatch the top, turned it clockwise,
unlocked the rams,
retracted the top manually all the way open, with the help of my favorite helper, my 9 year old son

then I tried to close the latch but it keeps bouncing back open, so is there a reason for that, or am i doing it wrong? Since the latch opened by turning the key clockwise, i tried to lock it back by turning it counter-clockwise, it just bounces back open

Then I disconnected the neg terminal and left it that way and am now waiting for it to reset before going back to finish the job, I figured a half hour should do it, am i correct, how long does it take?

Thanks alot,
Sid

 

okay, waited an hour and went back, closed valve then tried again and this time the latch locked manually

 

So now with the roof fully retracted and the latch now locked
- valve closed
- reconnected neg terminal
- Started car
- lowered front windows until clicked
- pushed button-roof up, nothing happening, no response, no pump, nothing
- pushed button-roof down, pump runs and latch opens, roof doesn't rise, then get message "latch not closed" even though roof is down

So either way roof stays down and doesn't rise and system is still confused and dumb as heck!

- so I opened the valve to release pressure then raised top manually
- then closed the valve
- pushed button-roof up to try to bring it to the latch and raise the windows, still nothing and back windows now don't rise
so with top still manually raised,
- Pushed button-roof down, after waiting long enough top lowers towards latch, and I think I latched it manually with the hex key, don't quite recall


So I turned off ignition, this time I firstly disconnected neg terminal
- opened valve
- unlatched
- manually retracted top again, oddly I didn't have to unlock the rams again
- closed valve
- closed latch

Though somewhat confused at this point, I'm now waiting and desperately hoping it might work this time after having firstly disconnected the neg terminal, may be that's what the issue is?

Thank you
Sid

 

Now having re-read what I wrote above, I'm noticing that by redoing it again and having not firstly locked the rams prior to latching, then disconnecting neg terminal, then retracting the roof again by unlocking the rams again, might give me the same result as what happened the first time I tried because I'm now redoing it with the rams oddly enough not locked when I put the roof back down again.