My hydraulic hoses burst for a second time. I purchased the improved hoses from colliflower and installed them (I've replaced the hoses on 2 other Jags with no problems). There are 2 cylinders that the electrical connections go in to on top of the pump, the plastic piece was so brittle on one that it broke right off. I couldn't find anybody that could replace the cylinder so I bought a used pump. The original pump was a HJD-8225AB the new/used pump is a HJD-8225AC. Now to the problem...

Top goes up and down great but the hood won't latch in both the up and down positions. When going up the latch retracts to catch the hook on the top but it doesn't seem to have that extra oomph it needs to close completely after about 5-10 seconds it times out. When going down it looks like it's all the way down but it won't latch after about 5-10 seconds it times out.


Things I've done:

1. I thought there was a way to reset the top by manually lowering it so I raised it up, released the pressure on the pump, and locked it in with the allen wrench. I tightened the petcock on the pump but the rear windows would not raise. I then released the pressure with the petcock, unlocked it with the allen wrench, and manually lowered it.

2. Cycled at least 15 times.

3. I switched the 2 front hoses at the pump thinking I may have got them on backwards. When switched the top doesn't move at all you can here a light sound from the pump but you can tell it's not trying to move.

4. Open the roof all the way, park the latch using the allen wrench, and do a hard reset on the car. When that is done close the petcock, start the car, and hold the roof close button until the roof is fully closed (do not let off the button).

Note: Pump fluid level is at the 1st mark on the tank after just operated, it rises a little bit after sitting.


What next?

 

Have you tried to cycle it several times after the repair to let any air bleed out?

 

How many times? If 3-4 cycles is enough then yes I have.

 

Did the hoses go in dry or primed with fluid? It's a bunch of air to purge if starting dry. Maybe some more cycles.

Is there either a relief valve or resistor installed on the pump?

 

They were dry. I will go cycle it some more now just in case.

No relief valve or resistor, I didn't think it would be needed with the updated hoses.

 

I don't think so either. I was just wondering if one or the other was present, as a possible factor in your problem.

 

Cycled probably 15 times now... no such luck

Thanks to Gus I've tried a few more things...

Open the roof all the way, park the latch using the allen wrench, and do a hard reset on the car. When that is done close the petcock, start the car, and hold the roof close button until the roof is fully closed (do not let off the button). Still the same problem.

I switched the 2 front hoses at the pump thinking I may have got them on backwards. When switched the top doesn't move at all you can here a light sound from the pump but you can tell it's not trying to move.

Note: Pump fluid level is at the 1st mark on the tank after just operated, it rises a little bit after sitting.

 

This might not be the problem but ... If you're at the lower level with the top down, that's too low. The level will be lower still with the top raised. (The system seems to be really fussy about fluid level.)

Paraphrasing the Jaguar docs ... No lower than the lower hash mark if the top is up; no higher than the upper mark if the top is down. Just shooting for "between the lines" will work in most cases, but it's not ideal.

 

Topped it off and re-cycled a few times just to make sure... unfortunately not the problem but at least it's at the perfect level now.

 

Damn. Sorry to hear. Wish I had a new idea at the ready ...

 

No worries, at least your trying! Like I said I've changed the hoses twice before once on this XKR and once on another XK8 so not exactly a noob but it's got me stumped.

 

Thanks to Gus it looks like we found the culprit. The connection going in to the right ram has a white/green wire that was rusted and popped out. I already cleaned up the rust but here are some pictures. I'm not sure how to repair it yet, but I will work on that when I can...

 

That switch on the ram triggers closing the latch when the top is lowered. But it doesn't play a role in closing the latch when the top is raised.

I don't know if you've solved that problem separately, or done new testing, but I think you might find the "raise top" latch operation still in trouble. Here's hoping I'm wrong.

 

Dennis you jinxed it!!! lol. Unfortunately it looks like you are exactly right. Before I repaired the green/white wire the top would go down then time out after about 5-10 seconds of trying to latch then the pressure would release and the latch would fall. Now you can tell the latch lowers correctly using the hydraulics while the top is going down but it still times out after 5-10 secs and won't latch going up or down.

 

Yeah, I get that at home a lot too.

Something you wrote ... "Note: Pump fluid level is at the 1st mark on the tank after just operated, it rises a little bit after sitting." ...
had me scratching my head. I've never seen or heard of the level rising over time. Then it hit me: air! I think what you're seeing there is air in the system (that the pump had compressed) decompressing.

Truth be told, I've never understood how the latch hoses could completely purge themselves of air. (Think about trying to get all the air out of a tricky brake or clutch system.) Everybody says it's true, but ...

I bet many systems are running with some air in the latch hoses and, if there's not too much, I think the system would work OK (the pump would take a little time to compress the air, sort of like a soft brake pedal). We might not notice. But too much air ... too much time needed to compress it ... maybe we get a timeout. Maybe.

So if you don't have a more promising idea from somewhere I'd suggest priming those latch hoses, getting as much air out of them as you can.

Your rising fluid level points to air in the system and it's at least plausible that with too much air things won't work. "Only a theory" as they say.

Good luck.

 

UPDATE: SOLVED!!! Just thought I should update this thread in case anybody has a similar issue in the future. Thanks for the idea Dennis07, a special thanks to Gus for helping me find the disconnected ram wire + his countless hours spent on me, and WhiteXKR because we got it working.

There are 2 white male connectors in the header that go to the wires that run down the A pillar in to the car. 1 white connector is for the grey top latch female connector and 1 white connector is for the overhead light female connector. During the hydraulic lines install I switched these connectors to troubleshoot why the top was not raising/lowering and did not switch them back. It took forever to figure out they were switched because I had another problem at the same time. The green wire going to the right ram was disconnected!

When the green right ram wire is disconnected the top will only raise/lower when the top latch connector is plugged in to the INCORRECT overhead light connector.

When the green right ram wire is repaired/connected properly but the top latch connector is plugged in to the INCORRECT overhead light connector the top will raise/lower but it won’t latch in either position. When you try to manually latch it, fuse no 5 will blow.

If you plug the top latch connector in to the CORRECT header connector and the green wire is disconnected the top will not raise/lower.

After repairing the green right ram wire (see previous post) all I had to do was plug the connectors in the header in correctly.

 

Congratulations, Seawind! That sure was a devilish one. Good of you to report all the details so others can benefit.

My idea about air in the latch hoses was wrong. But I owe you a thanks too since your problem prompted me to go get some education about how the hoses purge themselves of air. I never could see how it worked, and the unsupported statement "the system is self purging" always left me with the feeling that we didn't really understand what was going on.

 

definitely learned a few things from your dilemma. will mark this as resolved.

 

I am very interested in your recent top closure issue. My 99 xk8 top is stuck in the raised position. Getting that "top not latched" message. Rear quarters down and will not respond. I have read dozens of posts here RE this problem and have attempted several times to "reset" the sequence via manual close. The hoses are relatively new and no visible leaks. Fluid is good and at top line. I can not find any blown fuses, but honestly am not sure which one to check specifically as I do not see it spelled out in owners manual. I have tried manual lock with allen wrench a dozen times.
So I tried Gus's suggestion to manually lower top. I turn key on, open pet ****, release with wrench. Then the problem. As hard as I try, and I am a pretty strong guy, I cannot get cylinders to budge. I read you say you did it 15 times, so it just should not be to difficult. I am wondering if I am missing something? Its like the pressure will not release on pistons.
I assume you were reaching over back seat and pushing down on the roof frame at top of piston with your hands? You were not using any type leverage tool were you?

Any suggestions.

 

Welcome aboard. Sorry I missed your "visitor message". I didn't even know there was such a thing!

Under the heading of "first do no harm" ... Look at the "stickys" at the top of the list of threads here, and find out about the correct technique for manually lowering the top. You have to begin by pulling down on the top frame in a particular spot. It is possible to bend something by pushing too hard on things.

Really important to understand this before going on to other work.