All,

We hear so much on this forum about waiting for the right car and what to expect from an X100. The language is usually pay up front for a better car than addressing expensive issues later-- especially if you plan on outsourcing the work.

This is common among all car brands and very sound advice. We rarely get to hear from people who know this, yet don't follow the advice. It is embarrassing and frustrating and generally people don't care to share this pain.

Well, I will share my XKR story and expose my faults for others as a public service.

Dear reader, please do not think me inexperienced or this won't happen to you. I have owned 4 Jaguars, 3 Ferrari's, and a Maserati. I am familiar with high end, high strung, high maintenance cars, and the implications of automotive neglect. I am not, however, immune to hubris.

I owned a 1997 XK8 convertible when it was essentially new. Of all the cars I have owned, this is the only car my wife ever really liked and missed. We now have 2 kids and we wanted to get a 2+2 convertible as a fun car for her (July 2016). I suggested a Maserati GranCabrio, as it has real back seats, but she was not keen on spending that much money and kind of liked the idea of an X100. They trade for little money and are really cool/good cars. My kids fit in the back (and have a few years of doing so), so we started looking for a car.

I set my sights on a 2003+ for the 6 speed and 4.2 engine, with the hopes of finding an XKR. I set a budget of $17,000.

I was pretty open regarding the options, with the exception of no black or white cars. I really did not want a car that was in an accident or had issues. I was open to high miles (100k+) and understood expected interior condition of cars of that usage.

Being a car guy, I called my contacts and none of them really worked on/sold Jaguars of that vintage, so it was off to internet hunting. This is clearly the most fun part. 2003+ X100's are not too common, but they are available. Eliminating black and white really narrowed the field. After searching for a bit I came across a classified ad here for a 2003 XKR in Zircon Blue with (109k). Car appeared very clean (with expected interior) and my wife like the car/wheel combo. The asking price was $14,000 but $12,000 was agreed upon.

Normally, at this point I would have insisted on a Pre Purchase Inspection from a place I chose. However, my thought was $12k is not much of a risk and that leaves me $5k for fixes. Ran a carfax and it was clean. Hubris.

So, I flew my daughter and I out from DC to OH to drive the car home (we planned to stop overnight halfway). Upon seeing the car, it looked well represented. Very clean outside appearance, interior as expected. A few things that I did not know about were disclosed on my arrival. Nothing earth shattering (coolant light on but coolant level is fine). After a test drive, it was clear the brakes needed a flush and the rear end needed new shocks. Not too scary, so we proceeded to drive home.

The drive home was relatively drama free. The brakes and rear end were clearly top on my list and I made a small laundry list of items I wanted addressed.

As soon as I made it home, I made an appointment with a respected independant Jaguar specialist togo over the car. My thought was lets address the issues and bring it back to a known baseline of service.

Long story short, $8,000 later and I should be good to go. My logic was ok, a little over budget but I'm at a known good state.

After that service, car drives great. Brakes and rear end clearly resolved and all good, so we finally get the car home in my garage. It is clear the car was in an accident. Well repaired but the evidence is indisputable-- caution on CarFax especially on cars pre 2010.

Then the leaking starts to become apparent. Well, the car is 13 years old and hoses deteriorate. So I replace a few hoses myself but the leaks keep coming. The hoses that needed replacing are really labor intensive and I just don't have the time and hands to do a job to my standards plus I have a good relationship with the local dealer so I bring it there and let them sort it out.

After several dealer trips and about $10,000 we have addressed all the leaks except one from the Transmission Bell Housing. This a local transmission specialist is addressing for ~$2500.

End result is I am $30,000 into a $15,000 car with a worn interior and 109k+ miles and I still have a feint gas smell after startup even after new purge valve. Clearly, in hindsight I wish I had not bought this particular car, instead I wish I had waited for an example and done my due diligence.

The good news is I have a very sound mechanical XKR that should need little but ongoing maintenance (knock on wood). Yes, I am a perfectionist when it comes to my cars. Yes, I could have saved around $5,000 by using other service centers, a bunch more if I really wanted to tear the car down myself and do the work. Parts alone were still very pricey.

If you made it this far in the story, that you for letting me share this. My goal is not to scare someone off but when one is debating between a $12,000 and $18,000 car, that difference can disappear very fast. As these cars are worth relatively little, deferred maintenance or shortcuts is to be expected This is something we see somewhat in the exotic community, but less of as the stakes are much higher (take a shortcut ruin a $50k engine is less of an ROI) and I made all the classic mistakes of buying an older high line car.

TL;DR: Do your homework, have the means to take care of issues, get a PPI, or expect to write large checks like I did.

Best,
dsd

 

^great post

 

Very solid post!

You pay more up front, but sometimes the cheaper car is a false economy. If someone is looking, I recommend giving a look at the forum classifieds. If the member has a good posting history, you can learn a lot about them and the car.

When you buy a car, you buy the way the former owner looked at things. Some stereotypes hold generally true, such as an aircraft mechanic will tend to PM the crap out of a car and keep it very well, and a young kid may beat on it and do the bare minimum. However, look in as great a detail as possible. I tend to break a lot of stereotypes but firmly believe stereotypes always have a kernel of truth. I'm a young woman who DIYs everything, and has the records out the wazoo to prove it; and I feel my cars would pass any inspection a buyer would make or have done. I also don't live in resale fantasy land; my 00 XKR COnvertible with 101k is NOT worth top dollar, it's in very nice shape and perfect mechanical shape, but it's a 9k car. When I redo the headliner and seats, which are definitely well above serviceable but given the repaint, redone wheels and other stuff, worth doing. After this, it might be worth 9500-10k, not a great return lol.

My best advice I've ever been given and generally have followed is:

ALWAYS be willing to walk away.

If you have anything resembling a second thought, go with your gut and walk away. These cars aren't rare enough to get too hung up. Walking away is almost always cheaper than dealing with a turd!

 

Above is all so true!

 

A healthy dose of reality.

Graham

 

I will through my two cents worth of advice to go along with this, find a car with lots of recent service records when buying old especially so when over 100K miles. Things will break and they are expensive. Well taken care of mechanically is very important, unless you want to do a full rebuild. My $1500 car which I have done all the work to is now running well without leaks, it came with a trans build less than 1 yr old. Interior shows its age but not bad for 20 years. Needs paint and some chrome wheels replaced but I am only at about $2500 since I do all my own wrenching. Lots of fun to drive and worth every penny I spent to get the high school feeling again, has kept me off the couch for many an hour and all the reading I have done must be helping keeping the old brain working. Old cars come in two flavors, great for those who love to work on stuff or great for those who love to pay someone else ton's of money to do the work. Both people enjoy the drive.

 

This thread has sticky potential.

 

Here are all the gory details. Labor is very expensive in the DC Area...

$7745.09 (7/28/16)
Front Plate Install
Oil Change
Coolant Flush
Transmission Fluid Service
Power Steering Flush
Differential Fluid Exchange
Brake Fluid Exchange
VA Safety/Emissions
R&I Bypass Hose
Convertible Top Fluid Flush
R&I Main Seal
R&I Right Rear U-Joints
R&I Coolant Reservoir
Alignment
R&I Rear Shocks and Upper Insulators
R&I Differential Pinion Seal
Additional Key and Fob
Repair Trip Odometer

$177.56 (9/16/16)
BGProducts AC Service

$3966.44 (10/25/16)
Radiator
Thermostat
AC Recharge
EGR Pipe
Transmission Sleeve

$3276.91 (1/17/17)
Oil Cooler Replaced
Oil Cooler Lines replaced
Replaced Heater Valve and Pump
Cam Cover Gasket
Replaced Various Coolant Hoses

$1172.88 (2/9/17)
Replace Transmission Cooler Lines

$2800
Transmission Soft Gasket/rebuild

Plus:
LSI Relief Valve Purchase/Install
JagWrangler Rear Window control addition
Mina Gallery Intake Tube
New windshield (required as mirror fell off and would not reattach)
Electronics (Stereo/TPMS/Backup Camera)
Driver Seat Control Switch Replacement
Shift Knob and Gear selector cover (they were both broken)
Headlight Vents

 

You hiring a mechanic?

I do well as a software engineer, but dang.

 

This is the sort of stuff that worries me right there..

 

As someone shopping for their first jaguar in general, much less an x100, I appreciate you taking the time to post this. I will be certain to heed your warning.

 

dsd,
I suspect many of us have been caught at some time:- we're all made of basically the same fallible stuff.

You have paid in one lump rather than being able to spread the cost, but your take away is that you are finally at a known good point.

Thanks for sharing your story. Humble pie seldom tastes good.

Mike

 

You might want to check the rear of the engine block when they drop the transmission. There is a small threaded plug with an o-ring above the rear main which was the source of my bell housing leak. It also makes sense to change the rear main seal and do a seal kit on the transmission under the removal labor charge.

 

Great thread dsd. I think we should sticky this and start some "equivalent savings" entries by members who have tackled each job themselves or had it done for far less by independent shops. This would give folks a clearer picture of what the "cost range" could look like for various jobs, and help them decide if it is something they want to try to tackle themselves or farm out. Some obviously can't be done at home (like getting new key fobs coded to your car) but many could be tackled for much less.

 

Picked the car up from the Tranmission seal work and also had the right fuel damper replaced.

Hopefully that's a light at the end of the tunnel, not another train.

 

I don't doubt that all of us at one time or another, has an optimistic purchase on his permanent record; probably several on mine. A few years ago I purchased a 2000 XK8 for $ 8,500 from a Craigslist ad. Thanks to the forum, I made a list of its potential vulnerabilities, took it to a local Jag mechanic and spent $ 3,500 in precautionary work (tensioners, water pump, tuneup, transmission valve body, etc.) Added in a Mina exhaust, intake tube, Whitely wheels and several other unnecessary upgrades and now have approximately $ 14,000 in a car that might bring $ 8,000 tops if I were going to sell it. I might add that I'm also a part-time musician with over $ 5,000 in equipment I use to play gigs that pay $ 60-80 a night.

My point? Money is a lousy yardstick to measure what bring us pleasure and makes great memories. I'm going to drive around with the top down on a sunny day, and play "Highway Star" until they put me in the ground.

 

Optimistic is a good word to use.

My basic maintenance and repairs thread does NOT include cosmetics. I paid $10.6k 6 years ago for my 00 XKR convertible w/ 66k. Now its got 101k and realistically worth $8-9k. I've put $4.5k (new tires last week upped it a bit lol) into purely mechanical and consumables. I've put about $2500 into cosmetics. So I'm at 17.6k for a $9k car.

Basically I'm at $1400 a year for a toy. That ain't bad. I'm having fun! I make decent money and this car costs peanuts to run compare to the new BMWs, Mercedes, Porsches, Audis and such coworkers are buying. Ever wonder what a V10 for an M5 costs? Hint - You'd cry.

I keep waffling on buying a DB9 or Continental GT because I really do like my Jaguars, they cost so little to run and own, and it's obviously a luxury purchase. Insurance and license plate run me about a grand a year total. Insurance for me for a DB9 and plate is more like double that. It's nice that I just use these cars and not worry. I have a carefree attitude about ownership, and that's worth a lot to me. I get a ding? Pop it out. Get a scratch? Get a detail or paint work. Something breaks? Fix it. It's not that I don't feel the car is special, it is, but it's so usable that I don't get stressed out.

 

Agreed. Here's the metric; are you going to enjoy a DB9 or Continental GT twice as much as you do your Jag? Not likely, and you'll probably drive either of these cars a lot less because of the anxiety of parking them somewhere and wondering if they're going to be scratched, dented or vandalized. Hey, don't get me wrong, owning and driving a DB9 would be serious fun, but then again, so is the Jag with a lot less to worry about. Having owned a few semi-exotics myself, I can tell you that there comes a point where you realize that you don't own them, they own you.

 

Legitimately, probably not. One of my favorite things about used Jaguars is the value for money. I use it and enjoy it. It's what I'd consider a nice car, but not exotic or even semi-exotic. It's a very comfy grand tourer that is easy to live with.

I'd keep my XKR and sell the XJR for the "fancier" car. My dad sold off his american muscle stuff because they just became worth more than he felt they ever were worth, and to pay off the house because the coil reel making business was starting to die. He had about a tenth of the combined selling price in them and just sold them.

 

Hagerty stated: "...if you can’t afford to buy the best Jaguar XJ-S, you certainly can’t afford the worst." I think this applies equally well to the XK8 and most other older Jaguars, although my daughter's 2006 XJ8 VdP has been exemplary, as far as I know. Indeed, my 2006 Land Rover LR3 (Discovery 3) from the same company (more or less) has also been quite reliable. Both of these have quite a few more miles on the clock than my 2006 XK8 coupe yet it grows electrical gremlins at a fairly ambitious rate.

When I was shopping for my XK8, I was interested only in the 2003 or newer coupe, on or near the west coast of the USA, very much limiting my market. I really wanted BRG but would still be waiting to find one of those. The only one I've seen for sale was in Oklahoma, had a dicey history, was at a used car dealer, and I think it still for sale. In southern California I found a really nice, low miles (around 55K), private party, 2005 XKR. It was advertised as being BRG but upon correspondence with the seller turned out to be Jaguar Racing Green, a metallic version of BRG that I just couldn't convince myself to love. It would have run me $22K.

My fallback was black (but only if with tan interior). I found one in Portland, Oregon. It was a 2006 XK8, well optioned, with 79K miles. I had a nice but rushed email correspondence with the seller, who was moving out of the country in a few days. I bought it sight-unseen and handled the transaction through a friend who lives in Portland, requiring a high level of trust on the part of the seller and upon me as buyer. I paid $12K. Complete records from the seller for the years of his ownership, showing good shop maintenance.

I have not (so far) been disappointed but only made the leap when I did because the daily grind of searching the Web for deals was seriously wearing me down. I bought it with several known electrical issues (including auto-on headlamp function not working right, passenger seat controls non-op, center brake lamp non-op), broken cup holders (what a joke those are), and squealing brakes. Since I've had it, the brakes rarely squeal so I don't understand why that had been an issue. I have not yet addressed the known electrical issues and two more have surfaced, namely, driver's side door lock locking but not unlocking (forcing me to reach across and unlock via passenger side) and the dreaded brake light/cruise control switch malfunction. I can see also that I will soon have to do a fair bit of suspension work.

dsd's cautionary tale is all over scary. Had I seen it when I was shopping, I'm not sure I'd have taken the plunge. I certainly cannot afford that sort of repair bills and am somewhat limited in what tasks I can tackle, even with my son's help. I'd soon, I think, get to the abandonment decision or ending my 50+ year peaceful marriage! The good experience with my daughter's XJ8 and my LR3 gave me hope for a similar experience with an XK8 and--since I did take the plunge--am still hoping for the best.