Okay, the part (motor/pump) is supposed to be coming in on Monday (8/16) and I am tentatively scheduled for the work to be done on Tuesday. Is this a simple "take out the old part and put in the new part" procedure? Of course I know that they have to undo the various hoses from the old pump and install them on the new one but is there any special procedure for this? When the new pump is installed and filled with hydraulic fluid, does the system self-purge itself of air?

I am curious for a number of reasons. For one thing, if there is some special procedure required to do the purging, I want to make sure the dealer knows what they are doing. Also, if it turns out that this is really just a pop-out/pop-in job, there is no way I should have to leave the car with the dealer for more than a few hours.

Any techs/experts want to chime in?

Thanks,

Doug

 

Doug, I am certain that you can just swap the parts and cycle the roof a few times to work the air out. When you/they remove the hoses be careful to not dump the oil out mainly to avoid a mess but also to minimize the air in. When I worked on mine I was able to do all the work without spilling more than a drop or two. I was really careful with the hoses and kept them open end up to prevent the oil from running out. I did the work by putting the pump in a paint tray in the trunk.

It is interesting to hear that these pumps are failing fairly often as it hasn't shown up on the forums. It would be good to do some forensics on yours. The symptoms sound like a broken brush that got jammed between the case and the armature. This happens when the brush gets worn down and falls out of the holder. There are 2 bolts that hold the cover on the motor so it is fairly easy to remove that and see what happened. I think it is quite likely that the motor could be rebuilt although I understand why you didn't go that way. If it is brushes they are likely to be available as most motor manufacturers are using catalog brushes.

While you are at it pull the motor and look at the pump mechanism as it is really unique. I have worked with a number of pumps and never seen one like it.

 

The system will purge itself but the most important is not to cross up the hoses. See if you can get the old pump/motor.

 

^gus wants to dissect it

 

I will probably ask the dealer if I could keep or see the old motor but I have a feeling that they will need to retain it so that they could get the warranty reimbursement from Jaguar.

I grimace a bit when I realize that they will almost certainly be operating the top a number of times before I get a chance to put the LSI relief valve back in--oh well.

Doug

 

You are correct. The only way to find a fix.

 

The pump replacement was done today and the top now works fine. I will be re-installing the LSI valve as soon as possible.

Doug

 

Doug, were you able to get the failed parts for forensic analysis?

 

Walt,
You beat me to it!

 

No but I can try emailing the rep to see if this is possible.

Here is the response I just received from the service rep:

Hi Doug, We have to keep the failed part for warranty. If they don't ask for the failed part, I may be able to get it for you. i will keep in touch. Thanks, Derek



Doug

 

h20boy: ^gus wants to dissect it

Gus: You are correct. The only way to find a fix.

Ha Ha... Gus sounds like Dr Frankenstein looking for more body parts!!

 

Thanks Gordo! Thanks!! Where have you been? Hope things are going well for you.

 

I have been around on here.. mostly lurking in the background shadows. Lately though my attention has been focused on the BMW doing some mods like HIDs, and general PM. I guess I should post more often when I do visit.

 

I was looking at the latch and switches on my 99 and did a little PM on the header mechanism and it did respond better. Did you ever clear up?

 

No. One of the latch switches is malfunctioning. Switch depressed and the pump powers on; the rear windows retract. The pump starts to lift the top, and the latch claw begins to release, but then it stalls... and finally reverses and tightens.

I can override the shutdown sequence by inserting an allen wrench in the latch. When the cylinders are lifting the top, and the claw begins to open [and then stalls]; I can manually "assist" the hydraulics and twist open the claw with the allen wrench. I can feel once I have begun to open the claw, the hydraulics take over. So I am probably closing or opening a switch in the process. At that point, it appears to signal an OK for the rest of the top opening process to continue w/o further problems. Closing the top is normal.

The signal to open the claw is at fault, and I dont know if that comes from the rear window retraction switch, or one at the header on the latch. gordo

______________________________

PS. Doug: Sorry about hijacking your thread. Glad you got it resolved, but Gus won't be happy unless he can perform an autopsy on the cadaver.

xx

 

I recently experienced the same problem as yours and Gordo. I opened my header and looked it all over and could find nothing wrong. I elected to lubricate the latching mechanism and the micro switch at the latch and it worked better. I was working on an addition to my pages to show what I found but have not had the time to finish it.

 

I had someone contact me about a roof that was doing the same thing. He thought it was the valve kit he had recently installed but that has nothing to do with this. After some dialog we figured out that his latch mechanism was hanging up right at the point where the switches should say it is open and before the pump comes on. At this point the system seems to depend on the spring in the roof (from the tension on the fabric) to separate, but this doesn't happen if something catches. The switches are not all in the right state (and might be dithering on the edge of open or closed) so the control doesn't turn the pump on. His problem was fixed by lubricating the latch mechanism.

A way to test this is, while pressing the roof button, to apply some opening pressure to the roof with the other hand, and if the pump suddenly comes on, then it is a sure sign that it was hung up and one of the switches had not cleared.

The latch mechanism is complex and has several parts that slide against each other. There is a good photo of this on Gus' hose page. I think dirt and lack of lubrication cause parts of this to hang up. I think some light grease or a spray that leaves a light "dry" coating is the right thing. You don't want something that attracts dirt buildup. WD40 is temporary but is good for lubing and cleaning switches. I use a product called Sailkote that I buy at marine supply stores to lubricate the mechanical parts. This leaves a dry slippery finish that is ideal.

 

Whether the header bar is raised by hand, or the claw is manually activated; it appears the system recognizes that the claw is beginning to open. At this point, it signals the cylinders they can now retract their pistons and pull down the top.

It is this sequence that has me confused.

First: Is there a switch that recognizes when the latch claw has been released? If so, which of the three is it? Replacing or fixing that switch would appear to be the solution.

Second: I noticed the motor was always running and it seems there is always pressure at the pump. Do the solenoids route the pump pressure to the cylinders causing them to retract? And are these solenoids controlled by the same latch switch?

 

Gordo,

Look at this post with the photo. https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=41242 I will be doing a post on my page with photos of all that i did in the header.

 

I have done what you and Spurlee did, to wit., removed the header panel to lube and clean hardware and switches. Operation is still intermittent, and unreliable. Either pushing up on the header bar, or cranking over the claw to force it open is the override that I use to open the top. I am convinced the problem lies in one of the switches; and for that, I will need to remove the latch. gordo