I'm getting a little closer to beginning the swap on mine. I have two cars in front of it and a bathroom remodel to complete... and it still runs and drives great so I'm not in a huge hurry, but I have a couple questions.

Mine is a '97 with mechanical throttle and my LS1 is a '99 with mechanical throttle.

Is there any advantage/disadvantage to mechanical over drive-by-wire?

 

There are no disadvantages to use a DBC setup on the LS1- as a matter of fact it is less complicated than the drive-by-wire options, and of course easier to install. I wouldn't give it another thought....

We can utilize either DBW or DBC LS engines in general, so none of them is a show stopper....

Andrew

 

Here's a vote for a '6’ on behalf of another crew that has done the swap. Three of us participated, but Greg Harris (Pt. St. Lucie, FL) was the one who was the real brains and brawn of the project. My primary contributions were the shop and the beer.

Like many of the ECU/OBD era of mixed-pedigree, this swap would have been at least a ‘9’ if not for the Jaguar Specialties kit. Special thanks to Andrew of JS, who is incredibly knowledgable and responsive; we hope to meet him in person someday to thank him.

Although it’s tremendously helpful to have a guru like Greg on the project, with the JS kit and Andrew’s occasional guidance, anyone with basic mechanical skills, common sense and patience should be able to successfully perform the swap. Persistence is more important than experience.

My opinion on WHO should do the swap, and WHY, may be a bit ‘different’.

Greg and I both drive rebuilt XK8s, and truly appreciate the well-integrated luxury and refinement of these cars. On our LS-swapped car we're still working through the cosmetic details and have conservatively uncorked only 460 hp of the 6 liter's potential so far, but it's already clear that this is an entirely different animal: immensely torquey, responsive, raw and thrilling. We hate to put it back on the lift, but are itching to install the T56, and upgrade the rear end and suspension to match the rest of the drivetrain.

I would probably NOT recommend this swap for someone who wants to do the swap in a rush on a shoestring budget. You may get your money back out of it (if you don't much value your labor), but you would probably do at least as well financially by rebuilding a stock XK8 engine.

My observation with LS swaps in general, is that a lot of the guys who like to do them quickly lose interest as soon as the car fires up and more or less moves under it's own power. This is why so many LS conversions of all types sell so cheap - you’re buying someone else’s 'rat rod', and at best you still need to do the 2nd half of the project, working through all the details that make it into a desirable, complete car.

I WOULD recommend the XK8 LS swap to those who have the time, space and funds to enjoy the process at their own pace, and who then possess the persistence to follow through and create something very special, in my opinion: a car whose attitude and behavior fulfills the promises made by that thrilling, gorgeous XK8 body.

 

I started with a 1997 xk8 coupe. 2000 corvette ls1 engine with 20k,mi. and a 4L65e automatic, that was beefed-up.
The most important thing to do, is read the instructions thoroughly, before you begin.
You are starting with a car that has great suspension and under pinings.
It took me about 3 weeks to prepare the car before I was ready to install the motor and transmission. Go with a new wiring harness from Painless Performance.
She was driveable in 6 wks. I spent an other 6 months on little details. I have had the car 5 years now.
With close to 30k mi. All trouble free.
I love this car and plan to keep it for a while yet. By the way, I am 75 yrs old.
You don't build a hot rod to make money.
If you have watched car auctions, you see cars that people have spent $150k on sell for $35k.

 

Has anyone used a 6L80E (GM 6-speed automatic, mostly replacing the older 4L60E's in newer cars and trucks)? I'd love to put an LS3/L99 Camaro drivetrain in my XJS. Electronics and overall length won't be a problem, but I worry about the "girth" of the 6L and the fitment in the tunnel.

GM also has a new 8L90E with the same casing as the 6L, for the newer 6.2 LT1 (Corvette and Camaro) and L86 (truck) blocks. That would be pretty interesting.

Padre

 

Well I'm really happy to see the responses on the XK8-LS conversion poll from multiple users who seem to have actually done it. That's good feedback on what it really would take to do this, what's involved, particularly the level of complexity.

Many of those who added a rating also included comments as to how they arrived at that conclusion. However, it seems we don't have any feedback/details from the users who put the conversion complexity at 8 or 9 (and there were 3 of them). I think we all are interested to know what brought them to these conclusions- what specifics about this conversion resulted in these ratings???

The poll was initiated to give members reading it real feedback of this option for the XK8. I hope that we'll see comments from those 3 users soon.

Without further clarification it tends to, in my mind, make one wonder if those ratings were based on actual experience or just perceptions...

Thanks

Andrew
Jaguar Specialties

 

I can recall people wanting to take (fairly modern Jaguar model X) and stick in (engine Y) who had not thought at all about computers and got a shock when they realised that engine Y's computer would not talk at all to the computers in the Jag.

For them, the engine part was maybe difficulty 5 or 6 but the computers were infinite because they could not do it at all. They tended to ASSUME someone had all that done already. ASSUME is a worrying word.

 

Thank you Kimspitz for your response to this survey. Said it better than me.

Just wanted to add that after allot of research (surfing for almost a year), the main reason I bought the kit from Jaguar Specialties was the computer module. As JagV8 pointed out, this is the probably the quintessential piece of the puzzle. Andrew figured it out, all I had to do was connect the wires.

Doing a swap isn't a contest, or a matter of etiquette. Doing a swap of any kind is about passion, desire and fun. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, but if it is broke, it is nice to know you have a great option.

This forum has been a tremendous help to me in all my Jag projects from repainting my seats to the top repair and so on. I intend to give back with a little mod I'm working on this year.

Thank you all who contribute so much and to those who manage the site.

 

Just to be sure we are all talking about the same thing, our XK8-LS kit, in addition to a large group of mechanical parts, also includes a CAN interface unit (an electronic module) that communicates directly between the new GM engine controller and the existing Jag CAN network. The original Jag engine and transmission controllers are gone from the car. Our CAN interface unit is speaking the Jag CAN language directly so everything is then fine- the gauges all work, there are no extra warning lights or messages on the dash, etc.,.

This is a proprietary unit and its technology and software were designed specifically for this application. This was a significant achievement as Jaguar's CAN language is neither standard nor published, All of the messaging had to be decoded using special software and a highly experienced engineer, message by message. It was a slow process, taking the better nearly a year of work before there was even a hint that the effort might provide a solution and be successful.

When doing the conversion, one part is making the electrical connections for the CAN unit, and the detailed instructions that come with it make it very basic. It's not complicated- there are perhaps a half-dozen connections total. When you see the ratings of 5 or 6 by some of these end users it is of the kit/conversion in total, including installing our CAN interface unit. The ratings are not purely a mechanical commentary on how hard it was to bolt the engine down.

I hope that is helpful

Andrew
Jaguar Specialties

 

Good.

By way of example there have been members wanting to do an engine swap in an early S-Type. Problem, it has no CAN...

 

Just a note: the S-type does indeed have a controller network system in it. To do a conversion of this model a user would need a similar (but different) sort of interface unit for communication between the new engine controller and the chassis.

But quite frankly, there is virtually no call from customers for conversions on this model. No pull from customers- no conversion. I get maybe 4-5 calls per year asking about this model. That's not a market.....

I could be wrong, but that's the data...

Andrew
Jaguar Specialties

 

Andrew did you guys ever update the kit for the newer series car or are you still limited to pre-'93 cars?

 

No, our XK8 conversion range is still 97-02. There is virtually no call for conversions on the 03 and up cars- even less there than S-type. So no pull, no product.

But hey, the cars are cheap, especially in our area (Enderle is in my town), so why don't you find the nicest 01/02 out there and we'll have a go at it? I've found a great resto-mod shop in downtown SJ that has a VERY reasonable labor rate (for this area- under $100.....!!!!). They're actually doing an XJ6C- LS swap using our kit and parts right now. They'd love to get into a later car too.....

Send me a PM off list and I'll give you more info....

Andrew

PS to the list- still no more info from the #8 and #9 poll guys. How about an explanation?????

 

If you mean CAN, then no, as I stated the early S-Type does not have it at all

CAN came in with the 2002.5MY (2003 USA) cars..

 

On the Stype, check your info. That model uses a type of network, called SCP (Standard Corporate Protocol) which is also 2 wires (like CAN) and delivers data messaging all around the car. Any engine conversion on these models would require a type of interface to the chassis, similar to, but not the same, as the one we use on the XJ/XK. And the software messaging is of course all different. You can look at all of the wiring diagrams here:

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Auto...01999.25en.pdf

Read the bottom of page 6, and then look carefully at page 2.1. That shows some of the pinouts for the instrument cluster related to the engine controller. Between the engine control module and the instrument cluster there are virtually no connections besides power, ground, and the 2 SCP wires. That would appear to show that all engine data (RPM, water temp, etc.,.) comes to the cluster on the SCP- on the network. There are many other connections on the cluster, but no others to the engine controller (related to the cluster).

Perhaps the S-type added CAN later, as you say, but the car was networked based, on one way or the other, from the onset....

I hope that helps

Andrew
Jaguar Specialties

 

I've moved to Bend OR, so not in the area anymore. I have a ton of money into my 04 and hate to start over with an older car at this point (it gets driven maybe 4 times a year). An E-Type might be interesting but finding one cheap with everything but the engine good has been problematic (lots of flood cars but they are time bombs). Restoring an E-type and then putting a V8 in it would be suicidal. Given the shows here tend to favor old American iron that may be where I'll have to end up. We'll see.

 

For those interested in the different data buses used on our cars and the difference (and similarities) between SCP and CAN buses there is a paper on the Jag Wrangler site:-

www.thejagwrangler.com/uploads/8/0/2/8/8028029/jaguar_xk8_body_electronics.pdf

The XK8/R has both SCP and CAN and the two buses are joined in the instrument cluster, which explains the strange faults that can occur with a faulty instrument pack.

 

You are trying to teach your grandmother how to suck eggs. I correctly pointed out that the early cars do not have CAN and now you're muddying the waters. SCP is very very unlike CAN.

Please do not confuse people by mixing SCP and CAN. It helps no-one.

 

Whatever you say.

In the realm of what we are doing here, SCP is a network that would also need to be addressed just like we did in the CAN situation, You would need some type of an interpreter module and software to talk to the car. That is all that I am saying. SCP is a network, a different network than CAN, but a network nonetheless. It is over that network that the S-type engine control module transmits engine data to the instrument cluster. That is my point.

The earlier posting might give a reader the impression that early S-types don't have any networking at all, which is plainly not true. No, it is not CAN, but, for example, on those cars, there is no water temp sender on the engine directly driving the temp gauge in the dash cluster, in analog form. That information gets to the cluster in messaging on the SCP, and is decoded and displayed on the temp gauge. I worry that readers seeing that earlier post might conclude that if (for example) they wanted to do an engine conversion on a car like this and wanted the gauges all to work, it would be simple- just connecting a few wires. It is not at all like that, which is why I added my comments. People read these forums and then go an act on what they read. We, who post technical details, need to be careful about what we write, so as not to send someone away with the wrong impressions.

And it is because of this very detail, the network communication in these cars and no ready, practical, solution for it, that no one does any conversions on these models.

Not sure what the grandmother and sucking eggs thing is all about- this is a friendly discussion.......

Andrew
Jaguar Specialties

 

I am still kicking myself for not realizing I needed to get a 97-02 to do this conversion. I got a 03 and after all the work I have put into it I cant sell it and make what I got in it yet. I hate to get an older one and do all that work AGAIN then do a swap.