Stick up an down steering column fix...FAQ
#41
10-05-2011, 06:35 PM
Had the original tilt motor replaced when I first bought my '98 xk8. I hadn't found this forum yet. I forget the exact price for the dealer to replace motor but I'm sure it was a couple of Benjamins. When I took it off to do Mish_Mish's suggested repair there was no plate under the motor. Guess Jag experts didn't think it was necessary. Jack
#43
01-06-2012, 04:54 AM
Senior Member
#44
01-07-2012, 09:08 AM
#45
01-07-2012, 09:13 AM
Veteran Member
This cleaner/lube from Radio Shack will do the job well:
http://www.radioshack.com/search/ind...r+cleaner&sr=1
http://www.radioshack.com/search/ind...r+cleaner&sr=1
Last edited by WhiteXKR; 09-04-2012 at 09:59 PM.
#46
01-07-2012, 03:12 PM
My problems with tilt up and down steering wheel are definitely temperature related. I did mish_mish's repair last Spring and everything worked fine. Temps started dropping here in the North East and problems started again. When car cold, outside temp below 40, Steering wheel would reach but would not drop down. If I took out the key and quickly reinserted it would drop to the correct position. It would then function fine as long as inside temps didn't get too cold. The same would happen when exiting the car. Steering wheel would rise but not retract unless I reinserted the key. If I can find a real cheap tilt motor I might try replacement otherwise I will do the key trick until next Spring. Jack
#47
03-31-2012, 03:57 PM
Two reasons for stickyness
I just did fixing on my tilt motor assembly - here are the learnings. I discovered having two kinds of problems at the same time
- stop-and-go type of movement - the tilt motor potentiometer fault
- general stickyness (temperature related) - dry mechanism
I opened the underscuttle. It has two screws at the bottom side and pull fasteners on top sides. Note the electric connectors when removing. I also removed the lower cowl right under the steering wheel. Two screws and pressing sides in for the clips to unlock while pulling down.
I had a replacement motor which I put in place. I also changed the black drive shaft. New one was a tight fit - see the tools - did not really get any added value in replacing it.
Before putting the motor in place I tried to hand turn the drive shaft which did not move at all. Only holding the motor in hand and it going I got the steering wheel up and down. I sprayed a lot of cleaner / lubricant in the tilt mechanism over a time and played the steering up and down, got it going quite nicely and with even speed.
I saw old good looking grease in the tilt mechanism but apparently it is worn off in the right places. Does anybody have experience of what to open there to get access to places where to put thicker grease in the mechanism? The two black screws were inviting but I did not want to experience by opening them...
Yes, adjusting the top limit is essential, otherwise the wooden panel will be squeezed. I drove the steering wheel up and then down a bit so that there just was no squeeze. Then run the motor without being attached to the shaft to the top position and assembled it in its place. The shaft has enough toothing for getting this easily right.
Jouko
- stop-and-go type of movement - the tilt motor potentiometer fault
- general stickyness (temperature related) - dry mechanism
I opened the underscuttle. It has two screws at the bottom side and pull fasteners on top sides. Note the electric connectors when removing. I also removed the lower cowl right under the steering wheel. Two screws and pressing sides in for the clips to unlock while pulling down.
I had a replacement motor which I put in place. I also changed the black drive shaft. New one was a tight fit - see the tools - did not really get any added value in replacing it.
Before putting the motor in place I tried to hand turn the drive shaft which did not move at all. Only holding the motor in hand and it going I got the steering wheel up and down. I sprayed a lot of cleaner / lubricant in the tilt mechanism over a time and played the steering up and down, got it going quite nicely and with even speed.
I saw old good looking grease in the tilt mechanism but apparently it is worn off in the right places. Does anybody have experience of what to open there to get access to places where to put thicker grease in the mechanism? The two black screws were inviting but I did not want to experience by opening them...
Yes, adjusting the top limit is essential, otherwise the wooden panel will be squeezed. I drove the steering wheel up and then down a bit so that there just was no squeeze. Then run the motor without being attached to the shaft to the top position and assembled it in its place. The shaft has enough toothing for getting this easily right.
Jouko
#49
09-04-2012, 10:00 PM
Veteran Member
#50
09-06-2012, 05:25 PM
I just cleaned up my up/down motor for the 3rd time in 6 years. I'm at the point where I can remove it in 5 min. or less. The problem I see is at the round end of the potentiometer. This round disk shaped thing slides around the plastic housing. Each time I had trouble I found this area to be dry and binding up. A little vasoline on the end of a pin then coating the disk where the wires enter works well. You put a little vasoline then spin the gears by hand. You can feel the potentimeter free right up. Jack
#51
09-08-2012, 09:46 PM
#53
10-25-2012, 08:50 AM
#54
10-25-2012, 10:40 AM
Senior Member
Hello, the round black button you use to make the wheel go up and down, in and out also turns forward and backwards in place, which is on and off for the wheel to move automatically. Try turning the black round button towards you (not pullin it forward just turn in in a circular motion in place).
That turns the automatic steering wheel motion (up down, forwards and backwards) on and off.
Forward turn of black knob ='s on
backwards turn ='s off.
Good luck and
Happy Motoring...
That turns the automatic steering wheel motion (up down, forwards and backwards) on and off.
Forward turn of black knob ='s on
backwards turn ='s off.
Good luck and
Happy Motoring...
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#55
11-19-2012, 09:11 PM
I removed the spacer about 5 months ago. Tilt was working reasonably well, although not every time. New problem occurred recently. When I insert the ignition key, steering wheel goes down as it should, when I start the engine the column returns up. Re-programming did not help. Where to look now?
#56
11-20-2012, 04:55 AM
While on the subject of steering columns ...
Mine seems to work perfectly fine and when I start the car, it returns to the proper position.
I am concerned about the "click ... click ... click ... click ... click" that occurs when I shut the car off & the steering wheel retracts. Is this something to worry about? Is something on its way out?
Mine seems to work perfectly fine and when I start the car, it returns to the proper position.
I am concerned about the "click ... click ... click ... click ... click" that occurs when I shut the car off & the steering wheel retracts. Is this something to worry about? Is something on its way out?
#57
11-21-2012, 09:09 AM
My up and down works fine, but my in-out does not work either on auto or manual. I hear the motor spin, but does not retract the wheel. Dealer said there is a plastic gear or wire(like the antenna)that strips, and is not worth the trouble to replace it, as it will break again. Is there an easy fix? If I pull or push the black button as the motor spins it will stop spinning, so I know it is not a motor problem.
#58
12-14-2012, 08:27 AM
Senior Member
As many of us, I have had chronic issues with my steering column tilt not working consistently. And also like many, I have removed the tilt motor assy, removed the spring washer, lubed the gears, cleaned the potentiometer, etc, with limited success. So while I had the lower kick panel off to replace the dash bulbs recently, I spent some time looking into this and how it works. I have come to some conclusions about how this system works, and maybe this new information can help others.
First off, after having done the many "fixes" discussed on this thread, the most recent several weeks I have experienced the problem every time I use the car. The wheel wont tilt unless I keep pushing down on the switch over and over until step by step the wheel is in position. I carefully removed the motor assy trying not to turn the shaft. With it out, but still connected electrically, I operated the tilt switch and sure enough it still would only move step by step. I was surprised, but now I know now that the issue doesn't seem to have anything to do with the steering wheel assembly itself restricting things. Next, I carefully removed the black plastic housing attached to the motor. I operated the tilt switch again, and now the motor spins freely just as it should. It turns several revolutions then stops. Push the switch the other way, it turns several revolutions on the opposite direction and stops. It surprised me that it stops because I believed that the black plastic housing with the gears and potentiometer told the system how many revolutions the motor turns, not the case though.
Because the motor works smoothly without the black plastic assembly connected, I assume there is something wrong inside the black plastic assy. I pulled it apart being careful not to jar the parts inside, and I found the large green gear was stuck. Previously I had removed this gear and had removed the spring washer that is factory installed (as per a suggestion here on the forum). So I freed the gear, re-seated, and it seemed ok. But this had me thinking about that spring washer. I now believe that the removal of the spring washer is not a correct fix and in fact, exacerbates the problem. My theory is that the spring washer, over time, becomes worn/flattened and is not springy enough, and this results in the large green gear not meshing consistently with the smaller gear which turns the potentiometer. Apparently, this assembly keeps track of the location of the steering wheel and sends a signal to the BPM. If the tilt switch is set to auto, the BPM will know the location of the steering wheel when the key was removed last, and will set it back in this position when the key is reinserted. I think that when people removed the spring washer, all that was really happening was that the gears were re-seated and meshed again for a while, but without it, the large green gear shifts out of place again and the problem returns, or in my case, the gears became all bound up and would not turn at all.
I reinstalled the spring washer but bended it a little bit to make it "stronger". This is fairly sensitive though, because I bent it too much the first time and the gears wouldn't move at all, so flattened it a but and now they move again. I wasn't drastic the first time I bent it, and even so, it bound up the gears. This spring washer clearly is a key component.
I do think that there are certain reinstallation steps to be taken if this is disassembled. First off, the potentiometer movement is limited. There is a stop at both ends and will not turn past the stops. It is important that if the pot is turned, it be re-set to the correct position. I set my steering tilt all the way up before removing the motor assembly. Then, before reinstalling the motor assembly, I connected the electrical, held it in my hand, then pushed the tilt switch down, then up again a few times, and made sure I ended with the motor in what would be its up position. If you disassembled the black plastic gear housing AND manually turned the potentiometer, then you need to figure out which direction is correct on the pot, and turn it to the correct stop, before reinstalling the gears and then reattaching it to the motor. Again, operate the motor a few times up and down before installing to be sure it is working correctly.
Some interesting tests:
As I said above, I removed the black plastic assembly connected to the motor, reinstalled the motor, and then operated the steering tilt switch in manual position, and the steering wheel tilts perfectly. Now if I put the switch into "Auto", then push down on the switch to tilt the wheel, the wheel tilts fine still. I then removed the key from the ignition, the wheel tilts up fine, but, when I put the key back in, the wheel won't tilt "automatically" down again. The "auto" tilt to the previous position doesn't work. I CAN tilt it still by manually pushing down on the switch and it smoothly tilts fine. So based on this, it seems that the potentiometer is tracking the position of tilt for the BPM. This leads me to a question. If someone has the common symptom of having to keep pressing down on the tilt button to step by step get it down, what would happen if they removed the black plastic potentiometer assembly only and did nothing else? I know the "Auto - Tilt" won't work, but, will the wheel tilt smoothly down while holding down the switch? I suspect it will. If yes, then if you are ok with no "auto tilt" but don't want to have to press down over and over to step the wheel down into position, then maybe the simple removal of the potentiometer housing is a quick and easy solution. Although, I still believe if you have gone this far, pull it apart, bend the spring washer a little, and reassemble.
It is possible that my problem will come back again, and maybe its because this spring washer is so sensitive and I am not able to bend it just right, or maybe it is the gears are just worn or I have a bad spot on one the gears. It is a shame to have to replace the entire assy, motor and all, if the motor is fine, but I doubt we can purchase the black plastic potentiometer housing without also buying the motor.
First off, after having done the many "fixes" discussed on this thread, the most recent several weeks I have experienced the problem every time I use the car. The wheel wont tilt unless I keep pushing down on the switch over and over until step by step the wheel is in position. I carefully removed the motor assy trying not to turn the shaft. With it out, but still connected electrically, I operated the tilt switch and sure enough it still would only move step by step. I was surprised, but now I know now that the issue doesn't seem to have anything to do with the steering wheel assembly itself restricting things. Next, I carefully removed the black plastic housing attached to the motor. I operated the tilt switch again, and now the motor spins freely just as it should. It turns several revolutions then stops. Push the switch the other way, it turns several revolutions on the opposite direction and stops. It surprised me that it stops because I believed that the black plastic housing with the gears and potentiometer told the system how many revolutions the motor turns, not the case though.
Because the motor works smoothly without the black plastic assembly connected, I assume there is something wrong inside the black plastic assy. I pulled it apart being careful not to jar the parts inside, and I found the large green gear was stuck. Previously I had removed this gear and had removed the spring washer that is factory installed (as per a suggestion here on the forum). So I freed the gear, re-seated, and it seemed ok. But this had me thinking about that spring washer. I now believe that the removal of the spring washer is not a correct fix and in fact, exacerbates the problem. My theory is that the spring washer, over time, becomes worn/flattened and is not springy enough, and this results in the large green gear not meshing consistently with the smaller gear which turns the potentiometer. Apparently, this assembly keeps track of the location of the steering wheel and sends a signal to the BPM. If the tilt switch is set to auto, the BPM will know the location of the steering wheel when the key was removed last, and will set it back in this position when the key is reinserted. I think that when people removed the spring washer, all that was really happening was that the gears were re-seated and meshed again for a while, but without it, the large green gear shifts out of place again and the problem returns, or in my case, the gears became all bound up and would not turn at all.
I reinstalled the spring washer but bended it a little bit to make it "stronger". This is fairly sensitive though, because I bent it too much the first time and the gears wouldn't move at all, so flattened it a but and now they move again. I wasn't drastic the first time I bent it, and even so, it bound up the gears. This spring washer clearly is a key component.
I do think that there are certain reinstallation steps to be taken if this is disassembled. First off, the potentiometer movement is limited. There is a stop at both ends and will not turn past the stops. It is important that if the pot is turned, it be re-set to the correct position. I set my steering tilt all the way up before removing the motor assembly. Then, before reinstalling the motor assembly, I connected the electrical, held it in my hand, then pushed the tilt switch down, then up again a few times, and made sure I ended with the motor in what would be its up position. If you disassembled the black plastic gear housing AND manually turned the potentiometer, then you need to figure out which direction is correct on the pot, and turn it to the correct stop, before reinstalling the gears and then reattaching it to the motor. Again, operate the motor a few times up and down before installing to be sure it is working correctly.
Some interesting tests:
As I said above, I removed the black plastic assembly connected to the motor, reinstalled the motor, and then operated the steering tilt switch in manual position, and the steering wheel tilts perfectly. Now if I put the switch into "Auto", then push down on the switch to tilt the wheel, the wheel tilts fine still. I then removed the key from the ignition, the wheel tilts up fine, but, when I put the key back in, the wheel won't tilt "automatically" down again. The "auto" tilt to the previous position doesn't work. I CAN tilt it still by manually pushing down on the switch and it smoothly tilts fine. So based on this, it seems that the potentiometer is tracking the position of tilt for the BPM. This leads me to a question. If someone has the common symptom of having to keep pressing down on the tilt button to step by step get it down, what would happen if they removed the black plastic potentiometer assembly only and did nothing else? I know the "Auto - Tilt" won't work, but, will the wheel tilt smoothly down while holding down the switch? I suspect it will. If yes, then if you are ok with no "auto tilt" but don't want to have to press down over and over to step the wheel down into position, then maybe the simple removal of the potentiometer housing is a quick and easy solution. Although, I still believe if you have gone this far, pull it apart, bend the spring washer a little, and reassemble.
It is possible that my problem will come back again, and maybe its because this spring washer is so sensitive and I am not able to bend it just right, or maybe it is the gears are just worn or I have a bad spot on one the gears. It is a shame to have to replace the entire assy, motor and all, if the motor is fine, but I doubt we can purchase the black plastic potentiometer housing without also buying the motor.
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#59
12-15-2012, 04:57 PM
Senior Member
What I absolutely do not understand about this issue is this.....
The auto tilt works perfectly when the engine has been running for a while. It does not function when the engine is cold or even when the engine has been started from cold. I thought it was a battery issue but a new battery has not solved the problem and anyway if it were the battery then the system should work when the engine is started.
I am wondering if it is related to cabin temperature ? It's been so long since we've had anything resembling warm weather here that I can't remember if this happens during what we call summer.
The system seems to have a mind of its own!
The auto tilt works perfectly when the engine has been running for a while. It does not function when the engine is cold or even when the engine has been started from cold. I thought it was a battery issue but a new battery has not solved the problem and anyway if it were the battery then the system should work when the engine is started.
I am wondering if it is related to cabin temperature ? It's been so long since we've had anything resembling warm weather here that I can't remember if this happens during what we call summer.
The system seems to have a mind of its own!
#60
12-17-2012, 10:53 PM
Senior Member
Ok, here it comes!
What causes this issue is Bosch part, believe it or not.
Motor that controls the up and down is mounted right under the steering column (see picture), on one end it has little drive shaft, on the other it has potentiometer assembly. This assembly is very hard to spin and this is due to one very agressive spring washer. What happens is, when you try to adjust the column, motor jerks for a split second and then, due to excessive load, relay powers it down. Helping steering wheel up, or down does not help either, because it is driven through a worm gear... anyways, long story short:
1. Take off kick panel above the pedals, it is 2 8mm bolts, maybe 10 mm.
2. Take off motor-reducer aseembly, below the steering wheel. It is bolted on two allen style bolts, I think they are 5mm.
Please note that there is a shim, under motor assembly, for what reason I do not know, I did not re-install mine, because bolts are rather short, so I decided to give them couple more threads deep.
3. Unplug electric connector, it come out easy.
4. Slide off an open potentiometer assembly hosing, it has one screw and 2 little tabs to pull. It is Bosch made, so plastic is very strong, nothing breaks.
5. flatten the darn spring washer, or remove it of you like, I flattened mine with my fingers. You will see how much easier it will spin, after you put it together. Do not forget to add more lubrication, if you must.
6. Re-assemble motor assembly.
7. Bring the steering column up, or down manually, by spinning little drive shaft by hand. Now, connect electric cable to motor assembly, check if it works and then run it up, or down (with column adjustment knob), depending which way you moved the column earlier.
8. Slide motor end of the drive shaft into the column end.
9. Reinstall motor back in place, with, or without shim.
The end!
What causes this issue is Bosch part, believe it or not.
Motor that controls the up and down is mounted right under the steering column (see picture), on one end it has little drive shaft, on the other it has potentiometer assembly. This assembly is very hard to spin and this is due to one very agressive spring washer. What happens is, when you try to adjust the column, motor jerks for a split second and then, due to excessive load, relay powers it down. Helping steering wheel up, or down does not help either, because it is driven through a worm gear... anyways, long story short:
1. Take off kick panel above the pedals, it is 2 8mm bolts, maybe 10 mm.
2. Take off motor-reducer aseembly, below the steering wheel. It is bolted on two allen style bolts, I think they are 5mm.
Please note that there is a shim, under motor assembly, for what reason I do not know, I did not re-install mine, because bolts are rather short, so I decided to give them couple more threads deep.
3. Unplug electric connector, it come out easy.
4. Slide off an open potentiometer assembly hosing, it has one screw and 2 little tabs to pull. It is Bosch made, so plastic is very strong, nothing breaks.
5. flatten the darn spring washer, or remove it of you like, I flattened mine with my fingers. You will see how much easier it will spin, after you put it together. Do not forget to add more lubrication, if you must.
6. Re-assemble motor assembly.
7. Bring the steering column up, or down manually, by spinning little drive shaft by hand. Now, connect electric cable to motor assembly, check if it works and then run it up, or down (with column adjustment knob), depending which way you moved the column earlier.
8. Slide motor end of the drive shaft into the column end.
9. Reinstall motor back in place, with, or without shim.
The end!
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