RE: 300hp finally??
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RE: 300hp finally?? - 8/24/2007 11:27:15 AM
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tokaygecko
Posts: 89
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Obviously it it impossible to attach a hp rating to each mod (ie. headers- 15hp, intake 5hp, etc.) as there are so many variables, but I can see where RacerX may have gotten to the 300hp mark naturally aspirated. In all reality, it shouldn't be that hard to do- it just takes some mechanical knowedge because if you had to pay someone to do the work it would be cost prohibitive.
I think what we could benefit from the most would be an affordable ECU upgrade option other than the Arden unit. My electrical engineering buddy is going to run a bunch of tests on my ECU and see if there is a way to "overclock" the ECU which will allow for a high rev limiter. The trick will be getting the clocked ECU to communicate with the vehicle- mainly the onboard diagnostics system. Of course, this is all speculation. It all depends on how the ECU is designed, which we should soon know. I know that clocking the ECU on my 91 R/T TT made a big difference in useable rpms with turbos. He is also going to take a look at the possibility of re-flashing the ECU with different (advanced/retarded) timing. Obviously Arden has the capability of doing it, so he should too. If bad comes to worse I have a friend who is the garage manager at a Jaguar dealership in VA. If I have to I can take my car to his dealership and use the factory diagnostic computer to make the changes.
What I am basically trying to do is apply the knowedge I have from modifiying my 1991 Stealth R/T TT to the X-type platform. They are very similar in that they are both 3.0L V6, transversely mounted, AWD, 5-speed, etc. The main difference is Stealth is 15 year old technology and naturally aspirated is only rated at 222hp. The X-type has the potential to be very, very fast- it just needs the aftermarket support. Lord knows it has all the bells and whistles from the factory such as VVT, rpm-adjustable length intake runners, etc. What I am trying to do is simply unleash the full potential of the engine. Obviously, a car manufacturer is not going to release a car that is tuned to the edge; there is quite a large safety margin there that can be altered without doing much damage to long term reliability.
Think of how fast a BPU X-type would be... If we had a full intake, header/exhaust system, larger injectors, fuel control, boosted spark, and a decent clutch these cars would be amazingly fast. The biggest obstacle to overcome is tricking all the electronics the car is equipped with into thinking the modifications aren't there. Obviously just throwing all these parts on the car won't work. I doubt it would even start without at least some ECU tuning. The trick is going to be getting information from everyone who has modded their cars together in one place and learn from eachothers experiences.
You will be seeing a lot more posts from me in the future as I have just started a new job that pretty much pays me to work 2 hours a day and browse the internet the other 6. Now I have time to communicate all the progress I am making with my fellow X owners.
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RE: 300hp finally?? - 8/24/2007 11:34:55 AM
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tokaygecko
Posts: 89
Joined: 7/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ArdenX
The headers will make the X louder but won't give much more power as the stock headers are more than sufficient. I guarantee this guy would not get over 260hp with his mods.
This would be true if the headers incorporated the factory catalytic converters, however, the point of getting headers would be to increase exhaust flow therefore eliminating the need for the cats. The pipes could then collect together and go into a single 3" high-flow cat which would definately allow for far more horsepower than available on the stock system.
I am the person who sold him the headers on ebay (which he got an awesome deal on I will add) and I can assure you they increased power quite a bit. They eliminated the cats which is where most of the power from that upgrade comes from. Sure, if you want to be environmentally friendly you can install a downstream converter, preferably high flow, and still retain a majority of the power gained from eliminating the factory cats.
Also keep in mind the amount of heat produced by the catalytic converters being located so close to the engine. By moving the cat to under the car a lot of room is freed up under the hood- allowing more airflow and less heat = more power. Once the heat situation is dealt with, the factory oil cooler can be eliminated, further simplifying the layout of the engine bay.
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RE: 300hp finally?? - 8/24/2007 12:08:25 PM
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ArdenX
Posts: 114
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I agree that you would see some noticeable power from removing the cats but simply changing the headers to stainless steel will not make any difference. The big question is whether or not the additional power (from removing the cats) is worth the excessive noise that your Jaguar will then make. I would say definitely not worth it with just intake, exaust, ect. If the car were supercharged and well over 320hp(+) then it would be worth it. There is something very comical to me about an X-Type with no cats pushing less than 300hp.
Just out of curiousity, who manufactured the headers?
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RE: 300hp finally?? - 8/24/2007 1:53:49 PM
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tokaygecko
Posts: 89
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At this moment I am not ready to disclose the source of the headers for personal reasons. I'm in the middle of a project and I don't need someone jumping in and taking over. One thing is for certain- there will be a couple different header options available for the X-type over the next few months.
Header options currently in design-
1. Cat relocating- both front and rear manifolds feed into Y-pipe, which goes into a single, 3" high flow cat located under the car.
2. Twin Turbocharger capable- need I say more? Haven't decided on what flange/turbo to use. Leaning towards garrett T3/T4 hybrids. Lots of options. I'll choose when the time comes.
I am also working on making a full exhaust system which connects to the factory manifolds (which aren't horrible- but defintely not performance oriented) and then collects under the car into a single high-flow cat and then splits again at the rear for dual exhaust like the factory setup. I feel that 2 1/2" piping from each manifold joining together into a 3" pipe, then splitting again into 2- 2 1/2" pipes to the mufflers will be the most cost effective solution without making the car unbearably loud.
Just a side note- I agree that a car with no cats and less than 300hp would be loud, abnoxious, and plain out rediculous. If I were to remove my cats there would definately be resonators installed onto the exhaust to eliminiate the horrible drone.
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RE: 300hp finally?? - 8/25/2007 6:34:14 AM
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BuckMR2
Posts: 1082
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Is it a case of the more bhp you produce at the flywheel the more you loose through the transmission?
If so I think the X would go from 290 to around 220-225 at the wheels and not 240ish as mine was rolling roaded at around 241 flywheel and 184 at the wheels so loosing 57bhp.
Re the exhaust.....wouldnt channeling into a single 3" cat cause a bottleneck or would this bottleneck not be of too much concern as you are loosing a cat?
_____________________________
BuckMR2,
Cruise,Rev Park,Premium Sound upgrade,3.0 Sport Man,Cranberry seats,
Quads,EBC Redstuff ceramic pads & grooved/dimpled discs all around,2009MY grille
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RE: 300hp finally?? - 8/25/2007 8:27:39 AM
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tokaygecko
Posts: 89
Joined: 7/26/2007
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No, 3" exhaust piping is capable of flowing enough air to support 600+ hp with a high-flow cat installed.
Right now the biggest bottleneck in the exhaust is the location of the factory cats and the angles at which the exhaust bends to enter/leave these cats. By simply removing the factory cats and installing a single, high-flow unit there should be a lot more power available. Non-turbocharged cars will notice a difference but it will really make a big difference once forced induction is used as turbos move a lot more air.
For those who have interest in turbocharging or supercharging 2.25" piping from the manifolds joining together into 2.75" or 3" for a single cat will work fine. On naturally aspirated cars there needs to be some backpressure for the exhaust to work at peak efficiency. When you introduce turbos into the equation, which I am, then backpressure is evil.
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RE: 300hp finally?? - 8/25/2007 8:30:32 AM
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tokaygecko
Posts: 89
Joined: 7/26/2007
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As for power loss through the drivetrain- yes, the more power you make, the more you lose. It is not a set percentage but one can say that drivetrain loss goes something like this:
FWD- Roughly 10-15% drivetrain power loss
RWD- Roughly 10-15% drivetrain power loss
AWD- Roughly 18-25% drivetrain power loss
The numbers you posted fit right into that. These are not set in stone, but from my 9 years of modifying cars and watching them get dyno'ed this is the conclusion I've come up with.
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